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Stewart Butterfield says Microsoft sees Slack as existential threat – TechCrunch
In a wide ranging interview with The Wall Street Journal’s global technology editor Jason Dean yesterday, Slack CEO and co-founder Stewart Butterfield had some strong words regarding Microsoft, saying the software giant saw his company as an existential threat.
The interview took place at the WSJ Tech Live event. When Butterfield was asked about a chart Microsoft released in July during the Slack quiet period, which showed Microsoft Teams had 13 million daily active users compared to 12 million for Slack, Butterfield appeared taken aback by the chart.
“The bigger point is that’s kind of crazy for Microsoft to do, especially during the quiet period. I had someone say it was unprecedented since the [Steve] Ballmer era. I think it’s more like unprecedented since the Gates’ 98-99 era. I think they feel like we’re an existential threat,” he told Dean.
It’s worth noting, that as Dean pointed out, you could flip that existential threat statement. Microsoft is a much bigger business with a trillion-dollar market cap versus Slack’s $400 million. It also has the benefit of linking Microsoft Teams to Office 365 subscriptions, but Butterfield says the smaller company with the better idea has often won in the past.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 25 2019, @06:52PM
Outsourcing INTERNAL communications IS an existential threat, but not for the reason you'd think.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by stormreaver on Friday October 25 2019, @06:52PM (19 children)
The only upstart that has ever beaten Microsoft has been Linux. And even then, the desktop has been damned near unassailable.
I can't think of a single small, for-profit company that has ever beaten Microsoft. Hell, I can't think of any for-profit company that has ever even just been touched by Microsoft that didn't burn into a pile of ash as Microsoft copied those companies' ideas into its own products (whether [temporary] friend or foe).
(Score: 3, Informative) by ikanreed on Friday October 25 2019, @07:07PM (15 children)
Firefox(even if chrome came by and won after that) v IE was a fight that mozzilla won handily.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Friday October 25 2019, @07:31PM (9 children)
Mozilla is a non-profit.
compiling...
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Friday October 25 2019, @07:45PM
Oh just because the GGP was explicit and clear on that point is no reason to bring it up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 25 2019, @08:19PM
free brendan eich!
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday October 25 2019, @10:16PM (6 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by RamiK on Friday October 25 2019, @11:14PM (5 children)
That's the point. The reason stormreaver specified for-profits is because foundations like Linux, OpenOffice and Mozilla winning against Microsoft is the result of multiple corporations joining hands to develop/dump the market with a collaborative product which they're planning to profit from indirectly through services and such. That is, someone made the decision to be a loss leader rather than let Microsoft win. Which isn't the same as winning against them.
Having clarified that, Microsoft did lose in databases, cloud services, mobile, consoles and game stores to Oracle, Amazon/Google, Apple, Sony and Epic Games/Valve respectively in a straight for-profits battles. What's really remarkable is that it all started with the Zune: If they could only get those music licenses secured, Apple wouldn't have made the comeback they did with the iPod and iTunes. This just escalated over the years into mobile, streaming and game stores which affected their ability to compete in cloud services... Basically, the Balmer years.
compiling...
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday October 26 2019, @02:16AM (4 children)
People pay for Microsoft Office. You can't even give them LibreOffice. The same is true for Linux, but for a different reason - way too much fragmentation amongst distros and user interfaces.
As for Firefox, Microsoft is exiting the browser business since they don't need a browser to lock people in any more. They make the same amount of money if they just rebadged Chrome - and they hurt Google when Google gets investigated for antitrust issues over their browser monopoly.
Microsoft is making margins of close to 40% - they really don't care about market share of unprofitable niche products. And with RedHat now owned by IBM, expect Linux to become even less consumer-friendly.
And Android is a closed box that demonstrates how to make Linux de facto closed on devices, doing TiVo one better. And that stupid Linux phone that was supposed to be shipping this month (only 3 years late) is still not in general release, and at $700 US for an unproven product from a company that continues to fail to make deadlines of their own setting? Pull my finger.
It's unfortunate, but to claim that Microsoft is losing when they're making more money than ever on an ever-widening user base, that's just delusional.
I still use Linux, but mostly I just use a phone. Same as most people.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Saturday October 26 2019, @10:54AM (1 child)
I've literally spelled out it's not really winning in the following sentence saying "loss leader rather than let Microsoft win. Which isn't the same as winning against them.".
That's irrelevant since they entered a whole different market (cloud providing) instead after losing in the consumer market. On the office suite you could argue the market changed from competing against Open Office to competing against Google Docs. But its not like the market they left isn't profitable so they effectively lost it.
Don't forget large companies in the US don't simply lose. They're too big to fail. Too public sector. Flexible enough to turn to a completely different business model and still come-out strong. They diversify into multiple markets, often competing products, all to make sure they survive their failing products.
That's actually a good example: If Red Hat gets swallowed by big blue, did IBM win? Of course not. The whole point of open source is to lose lead and prevent leveraging one market on another. IBM is very limited in the kind of product bundling they can do now. They can't just force Power down our throats anymore. Microsoft and Intel are in the same boat: The markets they've lost thanks to open source cost them other markets.
Overall, it's not about the 40% they have. It's about what Apple and Google has that could have been theirs and how they had to change their business model to something less toxic to respond to open source. I admit its a rigged game. But the consumer have more options now. Shitty options. But options nonetheless.
compiling...
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday October 30 2019, @10:24PM
Shitty software with crappy documentation because there's no money to pay for proper documentation, and users being the testers because there's no money for proper internal testing because any extra money is put into "oh shiny", and ways to monetize users by invading their privacy instead of just letting them buy the product ...
Of course people would be far more demanding if they had to actually pay for software and services today. How many people would pay $15/month for Facebook (their current per customer revenue).
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 27 2019, @10:50PM (1 child)
"I have never used Microsoft Office, but LibreOffice, which used to be somewhat usable, is absolutely crap."
it's not crap for me, but i don't use it much. maybe you're just a half ass linux user who uses out dated shit that was fixed years ago?
"People pay for Microsoft Office. You can't even give them LibreOffice."
People are dumb fucking slaves that are too lazy to learn anything new and are such whores they would sell their grandmothers if you promise to save them a click. fuck them anyways.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday October 30 2019, @10:13PM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DannyB on Friday October 25 2019, @07:47PM (3 children)
Firefox rose from the ashes of Netscape -- which Microsoft destroyed.
Netscape only won because . . . open source.
Apache vs IIS . . . open source.
Linux vs Windows on servers, devices and non-desktop . . . open source.
I begin to perceive a pattern.
When it comes to commercial things going up against Microsoft, or that refuse to be acquired for pennies on the dollar, the history of our industry, at least the 1980's and 90's is littered with the corpses in the wake of Microsoft. Good businesses whose product or service Microsoft suddenly took an interest in. Sometimes Microsoft would "partner" with a company. The agreement included terms that if the company went under that Microsoft got all their Intellectual Property. Before the ink was dry on the agreement, Microsoft would go about trying to put their "partner" out of business.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 4, Informative) by DannyB on Friday October 25 2019, @07:51PM (1 child)
Since we're talking about browsers, let me mention another one.
In 1995 Microsoft still didn't recognize the internet. Bill Gates said it was just a fad.
Suddenly Microsoft realized it was a tsunami. Microsoft needed their own browser and quick.
They found a small company Spyglass that made a browser of the same name. Microsoft bought it for only $100,000 plus a healthy royalty percent of profits. Guess how many copies of Spyglass that Microsoft ever sold? Spyglass became IE. Microsoft put $150 million into its development over the next years in attempt to "microsoftize" the internet. But never sold a single copy.
Real nice guys.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 26 2019, @03:47AM
To quote a famous billionaire, "You don't get rich by writing a lot of big checks."
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 26 2019, @02:52PM
Large commercial companies have been eating Microsoft's lunch for a long time. Once you get back the OS and Office products, Microsoft doesn't have much market share in anything.
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Saturday October 26 2019, @04:08AM
... and then lost
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 25 2019, @09:05PM (2 children)
This is dangerously close to the No-True-Scotsman fallacy, as any company which has beaten Microsoft pretty much can't be "small" anymore because the act of winning will make them big.
However, your general point is true. The summary has this wide sweeping statement of "yeah, people beat Microsoft all the time," and I can't really think of many at all. Maybe Skype? Oracle (which isn't really "small" now, but not sure in the past)? Netscape (for a while)? Whoever owns the mp3 format?
Regardless, given the wide sweeping statement from the summary, I think the burden of proof is on them to demonstrate... and I think we can conclusively say that it's not obviously true.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday October 25 2019, @10:21PM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 26 2019, @03:54AM
Oracle was founded as SDL (can't remember what that stood for) by Ellison, Miner, and Oates to sell the first RDBMS. They got there first and soundly beat all their competitors in the 80s. They have, in many ways, been sailing along on that success as the de facto relational database for the past 35 years.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 25 2019, @07:40PM (11 children)
OK, this is just like that Docker article. What the heck is "Slack"? I first assumed it was Slackware, from the Church of the Sub-genius. But sounds like not. Everyone is using this? Or all Micro$oft zombie users? What is Slack?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by ikanreed on Friday October 25 2019, @07:47PM
Imagine chatting on the internet, but it's with your coworkers instead of people you only sort of hate.
(Score: 5, Informative) by DannyB on Friday October 25 2019, @07:56PM
I just learned some weeks back what Microsoft Teams is. From TFA it seems Slack is a competitor to that.
Teams: yet another new tool I have to learn how to use, to communicate with coworkers.
Q. What does it do that wasn't previously possible?
A. It lets Microsoft have access to what ought to be strictly internal communications!
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Friday October 25 2019, @10:41PM (3 children)
IRC as-a-service
Simple to use. Cheap enough. IRC integrations with everything thats ever existed are POSSIBLE with perl but nobody never writes it, whereas on slack they're not only possible but it exists and only takes one click.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 25 2019, @10:53PM (2 children)
I bet the fancy features can be duplicated if they haven't been already.
Like an IRC client that is prettied up to look more like a Slack or Discord, automatically embeds YouTube videos when they are linked, supports emoji, etc.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 26 2019, @01:19AM (1 child)
Mattermost [wikipedia.org] and Rocket.Chat [github.com] are both open-source Slack-clones that are funded by companies that offer to host them for you for a fee but you can self-host. Also, Discord [wikipedia.org] is a popular chat service that appears to be very similar to Slack in functionality and business model (i.e. no self-hosting); as far as I can tell the difference between Slack and Discord is almost entirely in who they market to.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 26 2019, @07:55PM
Discord is fucked. If they see irregular activity such as a VPN, they demand a phone number.
(Score: 2) by toddestan on Saturday October 26 2019, @06:43AM
Slack is just like Microsoft Teams, but isn't made by Microsoft.
They are both chat programs, aimed at office workers for inter-office communication. Besides just instant messaging, they support group chats, calling with soft phones, video calls and conferences, screen sharing, and stuff like that. They are also both Electron apps so they are bloated as all hell and chew up memory and CPU like crazy, though on a newer PC you'll hardly notice it.
I can only assume that Microsoft managed to get their numbers so high by including Teams with some (all?) versions of Microsoft Office. That's how I got it on my work computer, and that's how people at work started using it. We also have Cisco Jabber on our computers too which has been around a while and does most of the same things, though it's not quite as "cool" as Teams which has a modern UI (not saying it's better), tons of emoticons, built-in memes, and stuff like that.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday October 26 2019, @07:54AM (1 child)
Same here -- I just read a whole bunch more stuff than I would have I understood this was not about Slackware, but about some social-blah-blah-whatever. Headline is a bait and switch!
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 26 2019, @09:06AM
Original clueless AC here, still clueless. What is this "Slack" supposed to do? Why would anyone think it is competion for software dinosaurs like Mucro$erf? I still have no clue what the Fine Article is about! Could we have a little more intro in the Fine Summary, so we know what we are talking about? Is this some kind of "We Work" thing? Is there an "app" for this? Do I have to buy an iPhone to be in on all the cool stuff? Holey Shit, Janirock Man!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 27 2019, @10:53PM (1 child)
how do you not know about a $400 million tech company? do you surf soylentnews from the library?
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 27 2019, @11:06PM
If it's not worth at least $1 billion, it's not a unicorn. It's just worthless.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 25 2019, @07:56PM (4 children)
Sue the fuckers. SLackware can use coupla new vt100s.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 25 2019, @08:21PM (1 child)
j.r. bob dobbs recommends slack.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 25 2019, @09:32PM
He recommends it, we require it.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Acabatag on Saturday October 26 2019, @02:34AM (1 child)
VT220s are sleeker and more up to date. VT100s are boxy and ancient.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 26 2019, @01:41PM
Forget vts then. How about them fancy newfangled Tektronics x terminals? Them's nice, I hear.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 26 2019, @06:47PM
I use Teams at work, because we use Microsoft products for our corporate email/calendars/etc and Teams is part of the package and expected to be used. I use a little Slack at home to chat with friends.
If Teams reached 13 millions users it's only because it's "mandatory" as part of the office solution; and not because of any objective superiority. Because it's really not a good product: awful interface, slow, unreliable search, full of many little bugs/annoyance. Check the official channel to report bugs and feature requests : https://microsoftteams.uservoice.com/ [uservoice.com] , some very old requests with many votes have been left completely ignored for years, such as the request to have a "compact mode".