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A new, and controversial, law went into effect this week in Russia. 'The National Digital Economy Program" was
signed by President Vladimir Putin in May, it requires Russian[sic] to route traffic through nodes under the control of the Russian Government. ISPs are obliged to install technical devices provided by the authorities to allow traffic inspection.
Of course, the concentration of the traffic through nodes controlled by Moscow and the deployment of technical hardware provided by the government could open the door to a massive surveillance
Russian authorities will be able to censor online content and to spy on persons of interest.
According to the Russian government, the law aims at ensuring that Russian sites will be reachable even if disconnected to the global internet, a scenario that could result from a cyber attack or an outage caused by an incident.
Russia also recently announced annual tests disconnecting from the global internet to assess the impacts of such a move.
Currently none of the twelve top level DNS providers are located in Russia, making the effort interesting to be sure.
Human Rights Watch and activists fear Russia aims to build a system like the Chinese Great Firewall that could be used to apply strict censorship.
The government however immediately laid such fears to rest when it "denied any intent of disconnecting Russian netizens from the Internet."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @12:44PM (3 children)
> The government however immediately laid such fears to rest when it "denied any intent of disconnecting Russian netizens from the Internet."
That's not how it works, mate.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by tangomargarine on Monday November 04 2019, @04:04PM (2 children)
I seem to recall that Turkey had a "coincidental" several-day Internet outage during one of their unrests a few years ago, so yes, sometimes it does?
Erdogan should write a book "How To Seize Power When Everybody Is Watching You And In Fact Some Have A Job Just To Prevent You From Doing Exactly That"
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @05:00PM (1 child)
For those not getting, just because they said they won't do it doesn't mean it won't happen.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday November 04 2019, @08:36PM
If you're the same AC as above, I don't really get what point you're trying to make. The bit in the summary
was obviously sarcasm.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 5, Informative) by ledow on Monday November 04 2019, @01:04PM (21 children)
1) They don't need one of the top level DNS providers to be in Russia. They just need a copy of the latest zones, and they're good.
2) Tests like this show you dependence on foreign Internet. It's a sensible and rational idea... and one the US and others should be doing too. At least for their own internal systems if not for the country at large. What goes off if you just cut the fibre? Who knows? I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there are things like industrial controls on power stations managed from some cloud platform that becomes inaccessible if the cables are cut.
3) If the Russians are preparing for this, and ready for this, and confident they'll survive it... everyone else should really be doing to same. Because, if not, then they have an advantage in being able to operate entirely independently.
The fact that they put blackboxes into ISPs along the way.... well, that's just playing catchup with the US, UK and everyone else who already do the same.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Monday November 04 2019, @01:14PM (6 children)
> I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there are things like industrial controls on power stations managed from some cloud platform
Then you have a very low estimation of human ability.
(Score: 2) by exaeta on Monday November 04 2019, @03:02PM
The Government is a Bird
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday November 04 2019, @04:01PM
...and?
When you have low expectations you're seldom disappointed
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @05:37PM
some controls systems definitely allow remote access via some (likely shitty) proprietary VPNs. the VPN listening on the interwebs for all to try to login.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday November 04 2019, @06:28PM
Your optimism is sweet; delusional, but sweet.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by ledow on Tuesday November 05 2019, @08:21AM (1 child)
Honestly?
https://www.controleng.com/articles/cloud-based-software-solutions-for-industrial-applications/ [controleng.com]
The reason the Iraqi nuclear program was shut down was Windows machines getting viruses.
We have battleships running Windows nowadays.
This kind of thing is very commonplace.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 06 2019, @10:54AM
Then it's even better (for the Russian govt).
Detecting critical infrastructure depending on resources that may not be available in case of a conflict should happen on a regular basis, so why forfeit the chance to do it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @01:23PM (9 children)
in the so-called "free world" it is arguably illegal for governments to track people's activities on the internet.
the russian government made it explicitly legal for itself to do so.
i see a difference.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @03:19PM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @04:08PM
Exactly.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @04:26PM (6 children)
It seems ever more that in the "free world" the difference is increasingly coming down to the fact that we hide our bad behavior, while 'non-free' (I suppose?) countries are quite open about it. Check out PRISM [wikipedia.org] which is just one of many government programs, and one of the few we actually know anything about thanks to Snowden in particular - who now resides freely in Russia with his "partner." Assange, by contrast, will probably spend the rest of his life in dehumanizing conditions after extensive "enhanced interrogation" for the vile crime of making information freely available to voters. That's unacceptable in the free world. So he will now spend the rest of his life in prison in the free world, which interestingly enough also has the highest incarceration rate in the world. 1984 in so many ways does seem to have been a how-to manual. How far, really, are we from War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength?
To be clear I love the United States. The only reason I tend to be so pessimistic is because it increasingly seems that many other Americans are just living in a world that doesn't actually exist anywhere except in their head. How is a democracy supposed to function when people don't even understand what's happening our country itself, let alone what's happening across the world? It's been said that dissent is the highest form of patriotism. I'll settle for simply speaking inconvenient truths, which at times feels quite like dissent in today's world.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @05:40PM (2 children)
we are already at the Freedom is slavery stage. i have intelligent family members that are so brainwashed they actually revel in their servitude and defend their masters when questioned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 05 2019, @01:35AM
I'd just like to say Hello and Welcome to khallow's relatives.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 05 2019, @03:43AM
Examples please.
You mean those commie pigs who throttle business and innovation with their destructive rules [wikipedia.org] and and ridiculous regulations [wikipedia.org]?
I know. People who defend such dreck and those who support it should be sentenced to long prison terms. amirite? And that would save money on food for Thanksgiving, right? It's a win/win!
#MAGA
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 04 2019, @09:51PM
I agree, and I applaud you for saying it.
People do cling to what they've been told. It takes time for that attachment to delaminate. But it will, because in the end reality trumps fantasy, even intricately constructed and massively executed fantasy.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @11:37PM
.
There. FTFY.
Argue if you like, but you'll be eating crow in a few years. You heard it hear first, folks! AC will eat crow!
(Score: 3, Informative) by Common Joe on Tuesday November 05 2019, @04:42AM
We're already there. The US goes to war in other countries in the name of peace. Specifically, we've been targeting the Middle East for a while, but it's always in the name of preserving peace. Most Americans value ignorance and think it's a wonderful thing. The classic debate here on Soylent News about climate change is proof of that -- we can't have a rational discussion about it. And the hardest to see is "Freedom is Slavery", but it's there. It's not traditional slavery, but the new form of it -- financial slavery. Our economy is doing excellent according to all the metrics that are being rolled out by the government and big wigs. And yet... more people are in financial peril than ever before. Adjusted for proper inflation (not the inflationary numbers they keep rolling out year after year), people in their 20's, 30's and 40's are earning less than their parents. Oh, sure, we have computers and cell phones and indoor plumbing, but how many of us can afford a house and to raise a family on a single income? Yeah, I'm purposely avoiding the racial and gender inequality history, but for a lot of people, it was possible in the past to do the house and family thing.
My friend, we've been in 1984 for a while. The fact that you (and nearly everyone else I personally know) hasn't seen it speaks volumes about how well it's been accomplished.
(Score: 2) by legont on Monday November 04 2019, @05:11PM
This is exactly the case and the biggest fear of the Russian government. When they tried to block telegram (for refusing to provide keys to law enforcement) the critical infrastructure of the internal ministry itself was affected as well as banking down to ATM's on the streets because the services were dependent on American infrastructure such as AWS. They can't allow it, can they?
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @09:27PM
I think Russia just made it easy for The Rest Of The World to perpetually keep Russia offline. just keep sending Russia packets that trigger their tripwires, because that part of the equation is now a single point of control.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by coolgopher on Monday November 04 2019, @11:13PM
Indeed. This sounds like the regular "LI" (Lawful Intercept) units that are deployed in most communications networks. Remotely operated and with the ability to tap any traffic stream at will. It's been nearly two decades since I last had to install one, so I imagine they've gotten quite a bit fancier since then.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 08 2019, @06:44PM
No problem I'm sure the root nameservers allow zone transfers! Good one! Made me laugh.
Because the US knows this isn't to actually protect the Russian people from cyberattack. It's to make sure the internet isn't used to overthrow the government. The US knows you cannot keep out foreign actors, it's not possible. They operate inside the country already.
Again, totally different goals. The stated goals and the actual goals are very different.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @01:05PM (1 child)
Elon to the rescue! Capitalist billionaire will save Russia!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @01:32PM
Skylink (Russian: Скайлинк) is a mobile LTE 450 MHz (formerly CDMA-450 MHz) operator in Russia.
Starlink is a satellite constellation being constructed by American company SpaceX
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @01:19PM (2 children)
This is just another distraction from what Trump did.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @01:24PM (1 child)
How many babies did he eat?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @01:45PM
Q is back: qanon.pub
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Mojibake Tengu on Monday November 04 2019, @02:40PM (12 children)
Americans have something closely similar to this Russian law for quite some time (2009-2010):
https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-congress/senate-bill/3480 [congress.gov]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Cyberspace_as_a_National_Asset_Act [wikipedia.org]
Human Rights Activists, awake! Go, go, go!
Respect Authorities. Know your social status. Woke responsibly.
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Monday November 04 2019, @02:49PM (10 children)
(Score: 2) by Mojibake Tengu on Monday November 04 2019, @02:55PM
You know where the Russians got the idea.
Respect Authorities. Know your social status. Woke responsibly.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by tangomargarine on Monday November 04 2019, @03:57PM (8 children)
Hey, remember that time where we caught the NSA illegally spying, they said "okay we'll stop", then didn't even after Congress ordered them to? Repeat 2 or 3 times?
That was great
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by fustakrakich on Monday November 04 2019, @05:22PM
Yeah, I remember some guy named Clapper [apnews.com]. He's some kind of big hero patriot [independent.co.uk] now.
Forward is backward
We love Big Brother!
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Monday November 04 2019, @05:53PM (6 children)
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday November 04 2019, @08:09PM (5 children)
I meant that when a government agency with basically no oversight can just ignore the one body that can give them orders, what the fuck is the point of anything anymore
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 3, Touché) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 04 2019, @10:36PM (1 child)
Yes, indeed. What is to be done?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 06 2019, @10:59AM
Nothing. As in actively nothing. As in "a national strike for a couple of days".
Will it happen in US? Not a chance with each half of the population with the teeth in the neck of the other half.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Monday November 04 2019, @11:15PM (2 children)
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday November 05 2019, @05:08PM (1 child)
You asked what it had to do with your reply and I told you, Captain Thicko.
You really can't understand how my point was relevant?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Tuesday November 05 2019, @07:13PM
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @11:42PM
Except this bill was never passed into law:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-congress/senate-bill/3480/all-actions?overview=closed#tabs [congress.gov]
Oops.
From the Wikipedia article *you* linked [wikipedia.org]:
Double oops.
What was your point?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Monday November 04 2019, @02:51PM (16 children)
So Russia, Israel, the United States and China have all decided for Prison Intercoms over the internet which they are also imposing on the entire world.
How is this good globalization? If every packet of my data is spied and/or blocked at any of a hundred intermediary network nodes, by a hundred different entities, how is this in the public interest? Or anyone's?
People of earth: we want an internet
Rulers: here have this vast arcane perilous labrynth where every word you read must be pre-approved. now with ipv6 and dns over https! All stored indefinitely but ice lost another few thousand pre-teens near mar a lago.
good job well done.....
I refuse to be cannon fodder in any of their wars and you should to. cnn and fox are poison and may be the end of us all, now that the usa is outright invading countries, maybe some people will wake the fuck up to what is really going on.
Maybe.
thesesystemsarefailing.net
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday November 04 2019, @03:23PM (14 children)
I'd have to be asleep a pretty long time to miss that one. I seem to recall the US was outright invading countries in 1812. But maybe they didn't have Russian cooties back then?
(Score: 1) by Arik on Monday November 04 2019, @03:33PM (13 children)
Afghanistan? Iraq? Syria?
If this was sarcasm you got me.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @03:51PM
And creating a general mess of the international world as a result.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday November 04 2019, @05:15PM (10 children)
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Arik on Monday November 04 2019, @05:50PM (9 children)
But the war of 1812 was fundamentally defensive. It was declared by a tiny young republic against a world-spanning Empire that had been waging war against it with no declaration for some time. The attempts to invade Canada - the territory of that Empire nearest our border - in the course of such a war may technically warrant the word, but it's quite a different thing from what's going on now.
For real overseas aggression you need to fastforward a bit, perhaps to 1898 or so. Taking Cuba and the Philippines as colonial possessions changed our character in a way we have never recovered from.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @07:57PM (2 children)
Another conservative slowly catching on to khallow's game. I must say watching the brainwash detox is pretty enjoyable, reminds me of the Matrix "Welcome to the real world."
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday November 05 2019, @01:55AM
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday November 05 2019, @02:24AM
I think it'll be more interesting when you start catching on to my game.
Let's suppose everything is as you suppose it is. Could you have applied said brainwash detox? We have here something beyond your capabilities by implicit acknowledgement, yet somehow not beyond mine.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 04 2019, @09:59PM (2 children)
I used to be very glad Canada defeated the American invasion, but now I think it wouldn't have been such a bad thing. Canada as a country has the potential for greatness, but they have done little with it. What a colossus the two would have made together.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Monday November 04 2019, @11:20PM (1 child)
Alternatively, think if the US and Great Britain had stayed together.
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday November 06 2019, @12:27PM
Then we would have had a bigger version of Australia, that is, mediocre. It is the spirit, the ethos of an independent America that caused its rise to superpower status.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday November 05 2019, @02:28AM (2 children)
That's still over a century away. Point is this isn't something that happened "now".
(Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday November 05 2019, @05:08AM (1 child)
Look, obviously the historically aware of us realize that this is hardly the first time.
But, the less historically aware viewpoint is not completely indefensible either. The war machine has waxed and waned a few times. It's not at all unreasonable for someone whose memory of world events doesn't really stretch back into the 90s to think this belligerence is 'new' when it's really only 'gone berserk' but is that hair always really worth splitting?
At any rate, we used to go to great pains to avoid being seen as a bully, and now we no longer try. That's a change, and quite a recent one. I'd say we can date it to late 2001. You remember the day that time and space ripped apart and we were transported to bizzaro world right?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @11:12AM
You mean the day "Black Hawk Down" (based on real events in 1993) got released? Nah, I can't say I remember it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @05:43PM
somehow? you're misunderstanding what khallow posted.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday November 04 2019, @05:27PM
Doesn't matter. When the guns (cannon) start talking, everyone listens, everyone dies. You can pick a side, or you can be collateral damage.
Now and then, you say something that I can agree with. Yes, the US MSM is poison. IMO, CNN is the most virulent of the available poisons, but they're all poison.