SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
HMD's Nokia 2.3 has been announced for sale in the US. This low-end phone is just $129 but still manages to look like a respectable device.
[...] it runs stock Android with no crapware.
[...] There are some nice extras here, too, like a micro SD slot, a headphone jack, FM Radio support, and a dedicated Google Assistant button on the side.
[...] There are some downsides that come with the low price. First, there's no fingerprint reader. The only biometrics are a selfie-cam-powered face unlock feature, which can't be that secure since it only does a 2D face scan. Second, you're getting the old micro USB port for charging, instead of the newer, reversible USB-C, which is a shame. This also means there's no quick charging, and instead you get a pokey 5V/1A charger. Third, there's no NFC, so you won't be able to tap-and-pay at the register. Fourth, it only comes with Android 9 Pie, although an upgrade to Android 10 is planned at some point.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/01/dirt-cheap-nokia-2-3-comes-to-the-us-for-just-129/
Only downside [for me] is the fact that it actually has a selfie-cam-powered face unlock feature. How about you?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by mhajicek on Wednesday January 22 2020, @08:58PM (7 children)
Most of those "downsides" sound like upsides to me. Biometrics suck, and I do not want NFC.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday January 22 2020, @09:12PM (2 children)
Precisely, the only real downside is the USB connector, not that I don't have a bunch of those cables lying around, but the new connector is probably better. To bad they didn't go all the way with a removable battery, but at least it's a decent capacity.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday January 22 2020, @10:23PM
Absolutely agree, however, and I'm EE but not phone expert, USB-C has different circuit functionality, higher voltage and current potential, requiring higher power capable circuitry, which would be additional designs, and costs, and maybe bigger size and likely greater power dissipation. So maybe they compromised, and/or they haven't fully developed their USB-C stuff. Or, maybe this phone's chosen chipset doesn't support USB-C...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 23 2020, @01:29AM
The Nokia 1 had a removable battery... honestly the only good things about the Nokia 1 were the price, the headphone jack, the SD card support, and the removable battery. Everything else was garbage. It appears the Nokia 2.3 is better in that it has more RAM and probably a faster CPU, but worse in that its battery is non-removable and it has a notch (and possibly more spying AI/Google Assistant bullshit).
Another thing worth noting is the Nokia 1 had a locked bootloader and utterly abysmal software updates. Seemed like a 30-50% chance that every update would break something. One time they broke the on screen keyboard - they uploaded a version compiled for the wrong architecture or something. Similarly the messages app broke somewhat recently [nokia.com] for over two weeks, glad I was offline and missed that one. The lock screen had a habit of not accepting the correct PIN, and after the Android 9 update it would even start crashing on unlock occasionally.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday January 22 2020, @09:56PM
From the website:
Well, if all you can use the display for is staring at selfies of some incels' notch all day, that's a downside.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday January 22 2020, @11:40PM (2 children)
Right there with ya. I wouldn't even have to switch charging cables, so it sounds like almost the perfect phone.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 23 2020, @01:59AM (1 child)
USB-C is waaay better. My daily-driver laptop, phone, and toys can all use the same charger and peripheral finally instead of a bunch of annoying mini/micro/barrel/proprietary shit cables. Plus I don't have to turn it around 3 times to get it in.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 23 2020, @01:39PM
That's nice. I don't, however, own anything that uses USB-C, so it would be Yet Another Tedious Cable for only one thing.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday January 22 2020, @09:16PM (6 children)
Echoing that laptop story, you can get laptops with 4 GB of RAM at this price, so why not 4 GB in this phone? Even 3 GB could make it more tolerable.
Other than that, everything seems to be good and it's a large display, if that's your thing.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Wednesday January 22 2020, @09:23PM (5 children)
The fabrication methods of really cheap ram sticks makes it too large for a phone.
No really, that's it.
(Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Wednesday January 22 2020, @09:41PM
Isn't the RAM usually in the SOC/CPU, not discrete, on phones?
(Score: 4, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday January 22 2020, @09:54PM (3 children)
I'm pretty sure that you can find laptops with soldered mobile DRAM in them. Raspberry Pi 4B is a $55 device with 4 GB of mobile LPDDR4 in it, etc.
Mobile DRAM packages have reached 12 GB, with 16 GB likely to be announced by next month. They can put 3 or 4 GB in a $129 phone.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Freeman on Wednesday January 22 2020, @10:26PM
But, that would cut into their tiny 50%+ profit.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 23 2020, @01:26AM (1 child)
Between the SOC and 1GB of RAM, and the various passives off the partial schematic (No they don't give a full schematic) the $35 Raspberry Pi sells almost for the BoM cost. The increases in RAM make up almost the complete difference in prices and the 4GB one might be sold at a loss, depending on the exact quantities they order their parts and what all is missing from the schematics. If they were actually trying to make a profit on it as a commercial product, they'd need to cost a lot more than $55.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday January 23 2020, @01:55AM
The consensus is that the main Raspberry Pi models are sold at a profit by Raspberry Pi Trading, which funds the Raspberry Pi Foundation. It's the Raspberry Pi Zero models that are sold at a very slim profit (not a loss), with an official one unit per customer sales limit (you can arrange for big orders or find retailers that don't care).
There's no way that the 4 GB of RAM costs them more than $25. It is not the latest LPDDR4X or incoming LPDDR5 memory. They are definitely not putting a massive markup on the higher memory SKUs, and they may have made a mistake by making 1 GB to 2 GB a +$10 upgrade and 2 GB to 4 GB also a +$10 upgrade. 4 GB is probably the best selling model and for good reason.
Again, nothing stops a $129 device from having more than 2 GB of RAM. Even 3 GB could make a big difference for what will become an Android 10 device.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by moylan on Wednesday January 22 2020, @09:28PM (6 children)
can you change the google assist button to do something else? i have never or will ever use google assistant.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 22 2020, @09:32PM (5 children)
Have you tried asking the Google assistant?
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Wednesday January 22 2020, @09:49PM (4 children)
Hey google assistant, how can I change the google assistant button to invoke Alexa?
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday January 22 2020, @10:29PM (3 children)
Ahh...., out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Yeah, I forgot about the google assistant button. Would be sweet, if it's customizable, but I'm not so sure it will be. At least it's stock Android instead of some bastardized OEM with uninstallable Facebook/Twitter/(Insert Fad App).
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 23 2020, @02:54AM
Has anyone figured out how to disable bixby?
Without rooting?
(Score: 2) by moylan on Thursday January 23 2020, @11:10AM (1 child)
i ask because i got the nokia 2.2 for 70 euros a few months back. i can disable the google assistant button. i cannot repurpose it to do anything else. the one i have is locked to a carrier in ireland so i wondered if an unlocked one might do better. good phone otherwise. but i'll stick to my nokia 3310 2017 for calls. the 2.2 is just a glorified mini tablet.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday January 23 2020, @03:41PM
I would imagine the 2.3 would be very similar to the 2.2.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday January 22 2020, @09:52PM (6 children)
Did I misread that? Did it say a headphone jack?
But . . . because of Apple and Google, there soon will no longer be any headphone in existence which can plug in to that headphone jack.
May all your headphone have blue teeth!
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday January 22 2020, @10:00PM (3 children)
It's insanity. Budget segment phones get features people actually like to have. The $1000 phones sacrifice them so you can drop it into the pool.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday January 22 2020, @10:31PM (1 child)
Didn't I read somewhere that pretty much all phones have FM radio support, but the manufacturers turn it off?
(Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday January 22 2020, @10:35PM
Developers Working to Get FM Radio Function Enabled in BQ Ubuntu Phones [soylentnews.org]
FCC Chairman Encourages Activation of FM Chips in Smartphones [soylentnews.org]
FCC Commissioner Ajit Pai Calls on Apple to Activate Imaginary FM Chips [soylentnews.org]
Samsung to "Unlock" FM Chip in Galaxy S9 and Future Smartphones [soylentnews.org]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DannyB on Thursday January 23 2020, @02:35PM
The Samsung Galaxy S5 (long, long ago) was pretty ideal.
* removable battery
* headphone jack
* waterproof -- plenty of YouTube videos of people swimming with it, using it as underwater camera, running it through washing machine, etc
Somehow they managed to make it waterproof with a removable battery and headphone jack. Imagine that.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 22 2020, @10:04PM (1 child)
Earbuds are crap. Rechargeble batteries that cannot be replaced. Then poison landfills.
Earphone jacks are better on battery life, then sending random radiation ALL around you to just reach the ears.
Also earphones are cheap.
Finger printer and face scan to unlock... more insecure crap. Your face and fingers are physical facts that can be used even WITHOUT your permission. Oh can crap about 5 shakes will lock... That is tempering with evidence and admitting guilt. Two pass codes are better solution, 1) to unlock. 2) to brick.
OLD SCHOOL IS BETTER!!!! get a flip phone with big buttons.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday January 22 2020, @10:32PM
No fingerprint scanner. Just the face unlock thing. Which is likely to be an option as opposed to a requirement.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 22 2020, @10:35PM (10 children)
I'm one not wanting to pay many hundred dollars for a surveillance device. I just may buy one for when my Galaxy SII dies.
I use laptops for interacting on the Internet. For me, the "phone" (we need a new designation for these enhanced devices now) is for a few calls, email, occasional browsing and VPN access. Hopefully an OpenVPN or StrongSwan client will run on its SoC.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday January 22 2020, @10:41PM (3 children)
GPS + map apps are undeniably useful, and can be used with no data [9to5google.com] connection [soylentnews.org].
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday January 22 2020, @11:00PM (2 children)
... for Google (and others) to track you movements.
For everything else, there are TomTom, Garmin, Navman, etc... like in "do a single thing and do it well" philosophy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday January 22 2020, @11:10PM (1 child)
Wow, great take on half of the comment.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday January 23 2020, @10:06AM
As for the other half, any guarantee those map apps won't record and report your movements (for the past X months) next time your phone gets connectivity?
'Cause, unless it's a burner, you will need to let it connect sooner or later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by dwilson on Thursday January 23 2020, @02:02AM (2 children)
We have one. "Smartphone".
- D
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 23 2020, @06:37AM
hehehehe
thanks, that actually had me laughing quietly irl, literal lol deserves a thank you :)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 23 2020, @10:45PM
"smartphone" places too strong an accent on their phone function. For many, that's a minority duty. Plus, they're not that smart, they are designed for consumers. Producers need a "smart" platform to create. Can't create much on a "smartphone". Still contend a new designation is in order.
(Score: 3, Funny) by moylan on Thursday January 23 2020, @11:13AM (1 child)
it'd be really nice if someone made one without a microphone. maybe hardware switches for gps, wifi, bt so we could turn off things we find creepy
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday January 23 2020, @03:18PM
It would be difficult to make voice phone calls with the phone if it had no microphone.
In that case we'd need another word than "phone" to describe it, wouldn't we?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 23 2020, @06:54PM
Even "smartphone", that places too strong an accent on "phone", misses the mark for these devices. They started out for making/receiving calls, but for many, phoning is a minor duty. And they're not even that smart.
Still contend a new name makes sense.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by jasassin on Wednesday January 22 2020, @10:37PM (4 children)
Dirt cheap is a $35 dollar Samsung Galaxy J7 Sky Pro Tracfone ($20 for the phone $15 for a 30 minute month card). I have one and I haven't even activated it. They have sent me multiple offers for $15 gift cards to activate it and one time even a $25 dollar gift card offer which would have made the phone $10.00 (or -$5.00 depending how you look at it). The Samsung Galaxy J7 Sky Pro has a nice screen and is very fast. The Samsung browser beats the hell out of Chrome, as it's faster and supports add blockers. It has a micro sd slot, headphone jack, and replaceable battery. For $35, it rocks ass.
jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0xE6462C68A9A3DB5A
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday January 22 2020, @11:15PM (1 child)
You could always get a flip phone [anandtech.com].
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 22 2020, @11:31PM
Or a Nokia 1: https://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Unlocked-Smartphone-T-Mobile-Metropcs/dp/B07YMGQQS4/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=nokia+1&qid=1579735815&sr=8-1 [amazon.com] - unlocked at $60.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday January 22 2020, @11:20PM (1 child)
Where did you buy your $35 // $219.99 device? https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/phones/all-other-phones/samsung-galaxy-j7-16gb-unlocked-black-sm-j727uzkaxaa/ [samsung.com]
Even the refurbished one I found was $134.99.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Interesting) by jasassin on Thursday January 23 2020, @12:18AM
tracfone.com I looked on there right now and they no longer offer it in my zip code (you might have better luck). It looks like your best bet to get a cheap one is on eBay. A bid of $20 might get you one, but I'm sure $35 would with free shipping. They have a buy it now one [ebay.com] on there for $41.92 free shipping. If I were buying one I'd just keep bidding $20 at the last few minutes with free shipping and try to snipe someone.
jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0xE6462C68A9A3DB5A
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday January 22 2020, @10:39PM
Me? I have never had a selfie-cam, I'm usually using other means to unlock faces open.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday January 22 2020, @10:42PM
Ever high-quality dirt is pretty cheap [homeadvisor.com]. Android tablets, on the other hand, may actually hit that mark, as do phones in many developing nations.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 23 2020, @06:33AM (2 children)
"which can't be that secure since it only does a 2D face scan"
The author doesn't understand imaging nor math. Every consumer phone sensor is a planar array. Sometimes multiple sensors are used. Always, any 3d data is retrieved by correlating pixels between frames or between sensors or both. Generating a 3d pointcloud from a 2d video stream is how they all work.
Further, assuming that 2D is inherently less secure is ridiculous. That's like saying block encryption is more secure than bitwise stream encryption. The devil is in the implementation.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Thursday January 23 2020, @09:23AM
It could be 3D (or stereoscopic) if there were two front-facing lenses, but in my limited experience you only find multiple lenses on the back.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Immerman on Thursday January 23 2020, @02:29PM
Generally speaking, single camera facial recognition can be easily fooled by a photograph taken by another camera - a photograph of a photograph looks just like a photograph of the original subject. Stereo+ cameras in contrast can build a 3D model of your face, and thus require a 3D model of your head to fool, which is much more difficult for most people to acquire.
Of course a lot comes down to implementation, and you could potentially even require users to rotate their head to build a 3D model with one camera, but that could still be fooled by a video of you doing the same.