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China reclassifies dogs as pets instead of livestock
China's Ministry of Agriculture issued new guidelines Wednesday that reclassify dogs as pets instead of livestock, part of the country's response to the coronavirus pandemic.
"As far as dogs are concerned, along with the progress of human civilization and the public concern and love for animal protection, dogs have been 'specialized' to become companion animals ... and they will not be regulated as livestock in China," the notice said.
The coronavirus is believed to have originated in horseshoe bats, which may have passed the disease to other wildlife species for sale in the markets of Wuhan, where the virus was first detected.
Following the outbreak, China banned the breeding, trading and consumption of wildlife.
Also at Reuters.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @12:29AM (19 children)
155 years ago, USA reclassified negroes as human instead of chattel.
(Score: 2, Redundant) by Snotnose on Saturday April 11 2020, @12:36AM (4 children)
250 years ago the USA defined negros as 3/5 of a human being.
/ the timeline is probably wrong
// did not learn that in school
/// the whole concept, when I learned it, was a huge What's This Feature
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday April 11 2020, @08:18AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by istartedi on Saturday April 11 2020, @04:57PM
No, classifying them as 3/5 human might have implied that they only had to spend 40% of their time serving masters. Instead it was "You're 60% human if we're apportioning representatives for ourselves, otherwise you're zero percent human".
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 12 2020, @06:11AM (1 child)
It was called the 3/5 compromise. Why was it called a compromise? It was a debate over whether or not slaves should be counted when a state was determining its total number of residents for legislative and tax purposes. Not their value as a human. One size wanted them to count 100%, and the other side 0%. Guess which side wanted the slaves to not be counted at all? If you guessed the north, you would be correct. The north was responsible for it being 3/5 instead of 5/5.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @08:08AM
Revisionist Racist Assholery, that there is. I figure white supremacists to be, oh, yea 'bouts 3 bits of a human, due to deficiencies in intelligencing. That's about 37.5 cents, for you whiteys.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:28AM (7 children)
And just a couple days ago, the United States reclassified white supremacists as terrorists [www.rfi.fr]. Some times, these things lag behind history.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 11 2020, @03:08AM (2 children)
I notice while looking for material, that Randy Weaver, the guy who was at the center of the Ruby Ridge [wikipedia.org] siege (by US Marshals and the FBI) had been interviewed by the FBI in 1985 for information on the Aryan Nations. So why are we supposed to care that a foreign white supremacist group was considered a terrorist group two years ago when the FBI has been investigating these groups for at least 35 years?
(Score: 1, Troll) by aristarchus on Saturday April 11 2020, @05:58AM (1 child)
We are coming for your pasty white ass, khallow. Why is it that all the Rand, Ron, Ayn, Paul type livertarians are all such closet white supremacist racist types? As if we did not already know that your backhoe was an Aryan backhoe, a pure Teutonic Back hoe, of the Temple of Ultima Thule? You are transparent, khallow, a common failing of white supremacists when they go too white, and disappear. Better than when they expose themselves to the sun, and become bright red, like lobsters. But, yeah, the Nazis got their ideas of eugenics from American racist assholes, transparently. So only logical that the whole thing should spin around, through the less educated Germans, and thence into the brain-damaged Ethanol-fueled Ruskies, and come back to the state department all these years later. But they have always been here. Some of them, I am sure, are not good people, and the rest need to be impaled upon a red-hot poker in a trial by ordeal, like we used to use in the old days. Up for it, khallow? Got your safeword all ready? That's nice.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 11 2020, @06:24AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 12 2020, @06:22AM (3 children)
After enduring months of lockdown, Africans in China are being targeted and evicted from apartments. There are countries with governments that go out of their way to harm minorities, but by all means, keep the spotlight steadily focused on the country with 0.001% of the problem, if you really do not care about racism and are just a shil for political hacks. It seems like the Democrat party and most of the media has sold themselves to China.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Sunday April 12 2020, @06:59AM (2 children)
Are you saying that you are a racist? Having a hard time understanding your post. More slurs on someone, maybe a Lamestream or an SJW would place you. Or perhaps just a clear statement of your message.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 12 2020, @07:55PM (1 child)
This was a statement about proving someone's true values. Lets say that someone claims to value all human lives equally. It costs nothing to make that claim, so how do you prove that they really mean it? If you point out that China is throwing black people out of their homes and onto the streets, and their response is essentially "so what?", then it is reasonable to assume that they do not value all human lives equally, and that they had ulterior motives for making their claim. It would be beneficial to figure what those ulterior motives are, because deceitful virtues are a powerful tool for acquiring political power, and people who do this are very deceptive and dangerous. I do not think that it is a coincidence that the same people who claim that hydroxychloroquine will not work for treating COVID-19 are the same ones who will not condemn China for their human rights abuses. The Democratic party is owned by China, and China wants the US death toll to be high so that they can get their Democratic party back in power. Of course, China's puppets (democrats, never-Trump republicans, news media, Hollywood, etc.) will not condemn China for their human rights abuses.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 12 2020, @09:45PM
The mod to this post was " -1, Troll"; essentially a "so what?" response. Thank you for indicating your true position on human rights abuses, including racism.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Saturday April 11 2020, @08:46AM (4 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday April 11 2020, @05:15PM (3 children)
It's like that old saying - The USA will always do the right thing, but only after trying everything else.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 12 2020, @10:32AM
Oh STFU. Women have more rights than men. Constitutional recognition my ass. Let me know when white women are being sent to jail equally to black men or just STFU.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday April 12 2020, @12:07PM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday April 12 2020, @12:27PM
Mornings...
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @05:44PM
Should have just sent them back to their pastures in Africa. Lincoln was trying to, but they shot him.
(Score: 2) by Revek on Saturday April 11 2020, @12:47AM (81 children)
Its unfortunate but true. They tell the lie then get offended when its revealed. Currently they have successfully convinced their people that the Wuhan outbreak was the result of a "USA virus". Everyone made it about race when dumpster fire called it the "Chinese" virus but its really the same thing. Its a country that is named after its controlling race. Seems like you can't talk about the country without it being about race. We must find some other way to describe a problem when it comes from that country. He should have just called it the "CCP" virus and perhaps it would have gained traction.
This page was generated by a Swarm of Roaming Elephants
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @12:55AM (9 children)
As dumb as this sounds when I hear something like "Chinese" this or that, like "Chinese industry", "Chinese virus", "Chinese government" I only ever thought about it as in the geographical area... not as a group of people related to anything racial.
I guess I see how people could be offered. Sometimes I feel like by brain is in a bubble.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @12:59AM (6 children)
Your mistake is in thinking all other people are as intelligent and objective as you are.
(Score: 2) by meustrus on Sunday April 12 2020, @12:39AM (5 children)
This.
There are stupid racists out there a ping up their bigotry against Chinese-Americans because of the "Chinese virus". Like it makes a damn bit of difference. They're just too stupid to know what Chinese is supposed to mean.
Of course, responsible people understand this and avoid saying things that will cause stupid people to Amp up their bigotry. Irresponsible people don't care who gets hurt by the stupid people that hear their words.
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 12 2020, @02:26AM (4 children)
Collateral damage. We are at war.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 12 2020, @07:14AM (3 children)
No, we are not. We are at near quarantine. Not even quite Plague, yet. But the Donald thinks he is at war with some very smart Germ(mans), so brilliant they developed a resistance to antibiotics. Medical genius, that Donald.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-24/ [whitehouse.gov]
Hoooboy!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @06:10AM (2 children)
No, we have been having a cold war with China since long before President Trump bumbled into office. The problem is that Americans won't take it seriously until after China wins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @08:25AM
The war with Commie Russia was in 1918, in Siberia. war with China was in 1950, in Korea. (Chicoms were allies prior), and teh other war with the Soviet Ruskies was in the '60s, in Vietnam. About the end of the American Anti-commie wars, oh, except Reagan in Grenada, where the US military, with its usual precision, bombed a hospital. Let's at least keep the history straight, shall we, Hm?
(Score: 2) by meustrus on Monday April 13 2020, @05:57PM
All things considered, cold wars are better than hot wars.
Nixon did a very good thing for the country by starting trade with China. China obviously got the better end of the deal there, but if they were shut out forever we likely would have already experienced World War 3. Now, we import so much from China and have so much debt to them that their economy would crash if they declared war, because imports would stop and we would cancel the debt.
China is too big and too well organized for anything we do to stop their ascent. The only way to win is to play the game better. This notion that our unfair deals with China are worse than the available alternatives? It's nonsense.
(at the national level, that is; no business should ever have been gullible enough to fall for the forced tech-transfer deals, those are absolutely worse than no deal)
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 3, Touché) by legont on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:03AM
It helps to substitute Russians for Jews in the news stream every now and then.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:06AM
Here's how you can make it racial:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Chinese [wikipedia.org]
Hanzu virus
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by crafoo on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:09AM (40 children)
Why do we have to change our language use? The intention isn't racist. Why are you so petrified of being called racist? Everyone is a racist, or a closet racist, according to the authoritarian left. Who cares. It's the China Virus or the Wuhan Flu. I personally like WuFlu.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:16AM
Because we are all douchebags, and we expect you to be a douchebag too!
- progressives
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:29AM (8 children)
Right! Why should you have to stop calling queer men faggots?!
You look and sound like an idiot if you don't use contemporary language but in fact, unless you're advocating violence, you don't have to change! Keep calling black people negros - especially to our faces.
Right, there you go, showing that you don't have to avoid sounding like a drooling driveler. But you willfully choose to! So that is useful for the rest of the world to know about you. Can't wait to not hire you! I love booting candidates in the first few minutes, then I have unexpected unstructured work time and can work on interesting projects.
Have you considered wearing sartorial (that means clothing) fashions of the 19th century as well?
(Score: 1) by Arik on Saturday April 11 2020, @02:56AM (7 children)
Why indeed? You're acting like it's a "bad word." Please grow up, and join the 21st century.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @06:02AM
When I hear, "Trump virus", I am reminded of the God-emperor's own personal Vietnam, which bone spurs kept him out of, but he had to worry constantly about contracting AIDS from all the hookers and Beauty Contestants and Fashion Model from Eastern Europe that he was constantly fucking. It was such a rough time for him. He could have died, like tens of thousands Americans are today under his leadership, or lack thereof.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @07:45AM (5 children)
...waitaminute. Do you know what the term "fighting words" means?
Actually, I don't care. Fuck off. Go back to slashdot or daily stormer or whatever cesspool, and stop shitting on soylent.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday April 11 2020, @08:33AM (4 children)
"Fighting words" is the common law doctrine that insults can start a fight.
My point is that the words involved here are not insults.
You don't insult a person by confirming their own self-identification, but by doing the opposite. You demonstrate the technique here, by ludicrously associating me with neo-nazism, simply for daring to contradict your ignorance.
If I really were a nazi, that would not be an insult to me, and if you really thought I was a nazi, you probably would have been smart enough to find a different insult. You seem to have (correctly) calculated that you can be offensive to me by calling me that, precisely because that's obviously something that's repugnant to me.
Now apply the same logic to "faggot." If you think that's an insult, that just proves you're not a faggot.
And with that, you've actually been insulted. Have a good day.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @09:30PM (1 child)
How tf did you get modded up?
Where did GP call you a nazi!?
Actually, "faggot" is an insult (it means the person is to be used as kindling, ie. burnt to death) and fighting words (because you're saying they deserve to die because of their sexual orientation).
I can't speak for other lentils, but when my last boyfriend called me "hey fag" it was in the same way african americans might say "hey n". And I can assure you, if we hadn't been dating and someone without his cute sing-song voice said that on the street, there'd be either an apology or a fight.
You're a piece of shit troll.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Saturday April 11 2020, @10:29PM
How would I know?
"Where did GP call you a nazi!?"
Here: "Go back to slashdot or daily stormer[...]"
"Actually, "faggot" is an insult (it means the person is to be used as kindling, ie. burnt to death) and fighting words (because you're saying they deserve to die because of their sexual orientation)."
Factually incorrect, and a truly sad misinterpretation.
The word, in application to people (and young men in particular) actually has quite a different origin. In the boarding school system, the lower classmen were designated 'faggots' and each was assigned to an upper classman who was designated their 'fag-master.' This was a system of hazing and abuse, designed to break down the little faggots and forcibly mould them into what society wanted them to be. The metaphor at work, in other words, was not one of burning faggots, but one of making chipboard.
By my time, it had evolved from 'lower classmen' specifically, to anyone that the herd rejects, and by extension from there to be the opposite for 'breeder.'
So you could say that it's an insult if you're a breeder, but even that isn't really true. Most breeders wouldn't be insulted by it, anymore than I would be insulted if you called me a breeder. "Well, no, but did you have a point?" Not insulted, just puzzled, what are you on about?
Only someone who is not only a breeder, but a breeder with a VERY shaky self-image who leans VERY heavily on being a breeder in order to feel worthwhile themselves, to the point of a serious personality defect, would really think it's an insult to be called not-a-breeder.
As to the rest, you sound to me like you suffer from some serious self-hatred. Obviously you're hiding behind AC so I don't know anything about you, but that's definitely the impression you're giving with these posts. If someone calls you faggot in the street you ball your fists up and look for a fight? That's sad. I look up expecting to see an old friend.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 12 2020, @04:01AM (1 child)
STOP WITH THE TT TEXT OPTION IN ORDER FOR YOUR POSTS TO STAND OUT MORE. IT FUCKING SUCKS.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @07:08AM
Use VT100 theme.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:55AM (1 child)
(Score: 1) by petecox on Saturday April 11 2020, @03:55AM
Disagreeing on what to call the pandemic, Kung Flu fighting, is soooooo February.
Wuhan clan or Flu Manchu.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @02:42AM
I like LGBTflu. In memory of NY holocaust.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by vux984 on Saturday April 11 2020, @03:20AM (22 children)
If it avoids painting 11 million innocent people with a virus they had nothing to do with, and forever associating them and their city with a disease that killed thousands I'm game. If calling it covid-19 instead of wuflu means friends, neighbors, and members of my community, and fellow citizens -- all thousands of miles and oceans away from China... are hassled a bit less by ignorant assholes then I'm game.
We don't get to individually decide what language means, that's a collective societal consensus.
Maybe it wasn't intended offensively at the start, but at this point, the only people *still* calling it wuflu are doing it specifically to provoke offense, or as a dog whistle to those people. You can't use it now without carrying that subtext along for the ride.
Yeah but WHY? And what does insisting on using it say about YOU?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday April 11 2020, @05:47AM (21 children)
That's some thick bullshit you're laying down.
It's called the Wuhan Flu because it was initially reported as originating there. That's a very good term for it, as it's clear, unambiguous, and follows precedent. It also happens to be true, at least as far as current evidence suggests; it does seem to have originated in Wuhan. But that is not necessary for the name - the Spanish Flu famously did NOT originate in Spain, it was just first reported there. We're not sure where it came from; China is one of the possibilities. It's still the Spanish Flu.
That's not racist, that's not a slur against people of Spanish "race" should such a thing exist, it's not a dig at anyone's ethnicity, it's just a name.
On the other hand "Chinese Flu" is NOT a good name, because it's ambiguous. Do you mean the 1957 Chinese Flu? Or the 1968 Chinese Flu? Or the 2002 Chinese Flu? Or maybe the 2019 Chinese Flu?
China is a large and populous country, there are too many candidates, so it's better to name them by provinces. Guizhou Flu, Hong Kong Flu, Guangdong Flu, Wuhan Flu. It's just a matter of being specific about which one you mean.
So none of what you say there is actually true, and the real question is what does it say about YOU that you insist on seeing racism where it doesn't actually exist? Why are you so interested in being offended, that you would cultivate such delusions?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @07:51AM (2 children)
First off, it's not the fucking flu.
Secondly,
What?! What does it say about YOU that you think "wuflu" isn't both xenophobic and dogwhistle-racist?
Oh right, you're not racist, you have a Chinese friend! *big fat eye roll*
Why are you so interested in being offensive? Where did GP say he or she was offended?
Other names include "asshole" and "arik", but apparently we can use those as synonyms anyways.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday April 11 2020, @08:10AM (1 child)
Closest thing to a relevant point you make. There's a technical distinction but from a layman's point of view they're very similar things, so you shouldn't be surprised that people will call it that.
"isn't both xenophobic and dogwhistle-racist?"
Just like the Spanish Flu, the French Cut Brief, and (most heinous of all!) the American Cheese.
"Oh right, you're not racist, you have a Chinese friend!"
Do I? How do you know? And what difference do you think that makes? Why did you bring it up?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Informative) by FatPhil on Sunday April 12 2020, @11:54AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Saturday April 11 2020, @12:59PM (15 children)
And if we were doing it now it would be officially the 1918 Flu Pandemic or something; historians and scientists and academics have come to realize that that naming diseases after places stigmatized the people from those places. Breaking with precedent is a deliberate choice because the precedent is recognized to be needlessly harmful to people from the region.
Spain objected to it being called the Spanish flu and protested that its people were being falsely stigmatized at the time. Here's a chance to learn from the mistakes of history, not slavishly repeat them.
Wuhan isn't a province it's a city so you're scheme is already derailed. And COVID-19 neatly dodges any concerns we might have about how many candidates for names there are in a given country. So why do you object to it? It's not ambiguous, and nobody is offended by it... well almost nobody -- apparently the fact that its a perfectly fine name that nobody objects to is cause for you to object to it?
I didn't say it was racist. I said insisting on using it after China officially protested the name, and the scientific community and the rest of the globe all settled on a non-offensive name is ignorant, or its a conscious decision to try to offend the chinese and blow a dog-whistle to xenophobes and racists.
Why do you think the Trump administration *refuses* to call it COVID-19?
https://www.businessinsider.com/g7-failed-to-reach-agreement-because-of-wuhan-virus-2020-3?op=1 [businessinsider.com]
The CDC calls it COVID-19. The WHO calls it COVID-19. The G7 nations collectively are calling it COVID-19. So who is left insisting on calling it China Flu or Wuhan Flu and why? Trump wants to stir up anti-Chinese sentiment in his base, he may or may not be racist but he wants to agitate for racism because it serves his political need. Possibly just his short term need to deflect blame for the shit job the US did at handling it. Maybe also long term need to build more support in his trade war against china.
So I conclude the only people refusing to call it COVID-19 in the face that China is protesting it and the academic community have settled on a neutral name -- the only people left are either using it as a dog whistle to stir up the ignorant racists for political gains ... or they're the ignorant racists that got stirred up. Take your pick.
I'm actively avoiding both giving or taking offense here.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:43PM
Well, considering that the US is now #1 in terms of cases, maybe it should be called the MAGA flu. Trump can tell everyone that he made America #1 at something ...
Or the Trump flu. Kind of has a ring to it. After all, it's his refusal to listen to advisers for 2 months that made the USA ripe for the pickings.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday April 11 2020, @03:47PM (12 children)
That's a very bold assertion with no evidence. Further, it's simply assuming your point.
"naming diseases after places stigmatized the people from those places."
Counterpoint, no it doesn't. That's absurd. My assertion is at least as good as yours on the matter.
But ok. You're entitled to your opinion, I have no problem with that. But if this is your position /at least/ try to be consistent. There's going to be a very long list of common nouns that you need to somehow take out of usage. I mentioned American Cheese; if you're an American you can go anywhere in the world and be attacked for that stuff. I'd rather be associated with an infectious disease than some disgusting processed 'cheese product' any day of the week.
When you come to the conclusion that you need to use force to censor and "correct" the speech of other people, that's actually a wake up call telling you to back up the chain of logic and go over it again, because you got something wrong along the way. That's the road to authoritarian nightmares.
"Wuhan isn't a province it's a city so you're scheme is already derailed."
Not at all, they're named after localities. Depending on the specific of the case, it could be a country or a province or a city. As a nitpick on my phrasing it's good - I should have said localities, sure. But it's not like that changes the thought in any relevant way.
"China officially protested the name"
The CCP can officially protest anything they want to, and often use it as a club to get things they want and are not entitled to. We don't have any obligation to do what they say. The sooner we get used to ignoring such nonsense, the sooner they will quit wasting our time with it.
"the scientific community and the rest of the globe all settled"
Except that is just fiction. You seem to be living in a reality bubble.
Your link gives me nothing but a headline and a single paragraph, I guess that's what passes for reporting at the Business Insider these days, but whatever. Just the headline gives us a good example of how Trump winds up with moderate support, even though moderates generally dislike him. The other side is so extreme and insane and politically correct that they make this buffoon look good. Kowtowing to the CCP, to the point of censoring and altering your own language to avoid offending Lord Poo, that's not a good look at all.
"The WHO calls it COVID-19."
The same WHO that lied about this for months, publishing the fake facts that the CCP wanted to be pushed rather than warning us about the actual situation in a timely manner? The same WHO that poopood the threat, that advised against the appropriate responses, that to this day not only refuses entry to the ROC but actively covers up their existence? The same WHO that is headed by a war criminal who is not a medical doctor and whose only qualification for the office is being firmly loyal to the CCP.
That's a very good reason NOT to call it that, I would say.
"Trump wants to stir up anti-Chinese sentiment in his base"
I mean, if you look at that right it could be true. But I don't think that's how you meant it.
Trump wants to stir up 'anti-Chinese sentiment' in the sense of sentiment against the current government of the majority of China, the CCP. The Xi regime. It's a virulent, racist, fascist regime that we've been empowering against our own interest for many decades, and it makes sense that we should be rethinking it.
But what I think you mean to imply her is 'anti-Chinese sentiment' of a completely different form - racist sentiment against individuals of Chinese origin. And I have seen absolutely zero reason to believe that's what he's talking about. This seems to be a dog-whistle of sorts, most of the country understands him in the first sense, but people that are already in a virtual state of hysteria about Trump insist on reading every statement in the worst, not the best, possible sense.
Well, sure, if you do that, you can find a problem with virtually anything anyone ever said. That's not helpful to the public dialogue, quite the contrary, it tends to sabotage necessary conversations.
"So I conclude the only people refusing to call it COVID-19 in the face that China is protesting it and the academic community have settled on a neutral name -- the only people left are either using it as a dog whistle to stir up the ignorant racists for political gains ... or they're the ignorant racists that got stirred up. Take your pick."
Your conclusion is unsupported, and in fact already shown to be false. Try again.
"I'm actively avoiding both giving or taking offense here."
You might be trying to do so, and if so I applaud the effort; but it's failed.
You've said clearly that I'm either dog-whistling for racists or I am a racist. Both cases are false, and the assertion is certainly offensive.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Troll) by vux984 on Sunday April 12 2020, @01:14AM (11 children)
Really? The policy is already several years old.
https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/163636/WHO_HSE_FOS_15.1_eng.pdf;sequence=1 [who.int]
It's pretty clear they are against regional names now.
Or visit the CDC section on past pandemics. They're not calling it "Spanish Flu".
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/basics/past-pandemics.html [cdc.gov]
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html [cdc.gov]
What more evidence would you like?
No. It's not. The difference is there's plenty of evidence my assertion is correct. Spain protested the name spanish flu. The middle east protested mers. China protests the china flu/wuhan flu. Individual cases of abuse and violence against Chinese people in America are widely reported even... this isn't "CNN histrionics and TDS".
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-man-stabbing-asian-family-coronavirus-fbi-hate-crime [foxnews.com]
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/02/18/how-covid-19-coronavirus-is-uncovering-anti-asian-racism/#2a4b3b4829a6 [forbes.com]
https://www.governor.pa.gov/newsroom/community-leaders-join-gov-wolf-to-call-for-end-to-covid-related-discrimination/ [pa.gov]
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/get-psyched/202003/it-is-called-covid-19-not-the-chinese-virus [psychologytoday.com]
If you refuse to examine the ample evidence critically you are being willfully ignorant. The notion that there is no stigma is absurd.
"I'd rather be associated with an infectious disease than some disgusting processed 'cheese product' any day of the week."
According to the US Standards of Identity for Dairy Products, part of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), to be labeled "American cheese" a processed cheese is required to be manufactured from cheddar cheese, colby cheese, washed curd cheese, or granular cheese, or any mixture of two or more of these.[6] The CFR also includes regulations for the manufacturing of processed American cheese.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_cheese [wikipedia.org]
If you don't like America being associated with American cheese take it up your own federal government and the American cheese makers producing it; America is defining, protecting, and propagating that labeling, its not being imposed on you by foreign racists.
It doesn't really matter if Trump is intending it be racist or not. If you blow a dog whistle the dogs come whether you want them or not. Once you know that, and you keep blowing it, you own some responsibility for that.
Your position, if I read it right, is that somehow despite everyone including fox news reporting increased violence against people of asian descent over covid-19, and a long history of countries protesting and reporting stigma from being named for a disease --- that nobody, nobody except for hysterical-far-left-nutters are perceving the administrations anti-chinese sentiment as having any more effect than "duly and properly informing the electorate of the misdeeds of the Chinese communist party?"
That's some pretty spectacular cognitive dissonance you are maintaining there.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Sunday April 12 2020, @11:21AM (10 children)
In any sufficiently large population you will have a few shitheads. And that's exactly what you're looking at here. A tiny handful of shitheads scattered through the general population who are so incredibly idiotic that they hear 'chinese flu' and want to go bash the first person they see that looks chinese.
We lock these people up and punish them. But we don't need to destroy our own language in a futile attempt to eliminate every word or phrase that might possibly trigger some idiot to do something idiotic. Which is what you seem to be proposing.
In contrast, in China right now, similar incidents are happening on a large scale. They are not counted, they are not reported. The CCP doesn't lock the perpetrators up, it encourages their behavior. That's what it looks like when a country is /actually/ racist.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Sunday April 12 2020, @11:34PM (8 children)
Didn't look at the links did you? 650+ incidents reported to police by Asian American's in a one week period in the US. That's reported incidents, not collected from random twitter posts. Extrapolate that globally. And then add the additional orders of magnitude of harrassment and abuse that didn't get reported, because most people aren't going to call the police if someone screams "Go home to china" and throws some garbage at them from a passing car.
How "tiny" is large enough to merit a 2nd thought? Given we can and DID predict this will happen why not make the choice to head some of it off? It literally costs nothing.
"Destroy our language"? By choosing to name a virus COVID-19 instead of "ChinaFlu"? How is this a destruction of our language?
And this is a global pandemic, the economy is ground to a halt, people are dying, they're digging mass graves in New York, people are losing their jobs by the millions, their health insurance cancelled, their investments hit hard, their futures uncertain. People who would not normally be triggered are on edge right now. Good leadership should be reassuring people right now and encouraging calm, not agitating them.
Remains a country with a truly shitty government. "China is worse" is not a justification.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday April 13 2020, @01:17AM (6 children)
When, instead, you fall all over yourself to attack other people, people who are not shitheads but just don't happen to agree with your linguistic proscriptions, you do the opposite. You *encourage* this kind of idiocy, you legitimize it, you excuse it. When you blame Trump for their actions, you implicitly relieve them of responsibility for their own actions, and that's wrong and harmful.
"they're digging mass graves in New York"
Typical deceptive soundbite. Oh, it's true, they are digging mass graves on Hart island. That's been going on for more than a century, though. Only now is it worth reporting on, because Trump! All his fault, him and that time machine of his.
""China is worse" is not a justification."
No, it's not a justification, it's a reality check. You have country A where racist attacks occur occasionally and result in investigations, punishment, and universal denunciation of the offenders; and country B which actively encourages racist attacks, punishes no one, doesn't even keep track of them statistically, no concern at all. And you're pointing at country A and shrieking 'racist' - demanding that we all give up our very language in order to appease the racist, fascist regime in country B.
Your position is illogical and unethical.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Monday April 13 2020, @05:03PM (5 children)
"When you take that approach, the stupidity (at least this particular form of it) is extinguished."
Have leadership take people that are scared, rile them up about a target, and then arrest anyone who acts out. vs Have leadership recognize people are scared, and make an effort to keep them calm and avoid giving them a target, and then arrest anyone who still acts out. And you prefer the former because?
"Only now is it worth reporting on, because Trump!"
No, not 'because Trump', 'Because people are scared'. And for a century those grave sites were reserved for those people who were not claimed by family, and they were buried once a week. Now the burials are happening 5 days a week, and there's a real potential that people who would be claimed under more normal circumstances are going unclaimed do to the shutdown and travel restrictions. Surely, that's all a little newsworthy.
"And you're pointing at country A and shrieking 'racist' - demanding that we all give up our very language in order to appease the racist, fascist regime in country B."
I'm talking about "country A" because I'm strongly tied to country A, and am very invested in how things go here. I'm not "shrieking racist" and I'm not demanding you give up your 'very language'. Country B is 1000s of miles away and I'm more concerned with home.
"No, it's not a justification, it's a reality check."
But the fact that its China is beside the point. If it had originated in Louisiana they'd want it named COVID-19 too to avoid the stigma on its residents, the loss to tourism that stigma would bring, and to head off people around the country vandalizing cars and and hurling abuse at folks with Lousiana plates etc. Vandalizing cajun restaurants, etc, etc.
My primary motivation here is the well being of American's of Asian descent, you know, actual American citizens.
"Your position is illogical and unethical."
I think precisely the same thing about yours.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday April 13 2020, @11:57PM (4 children)
But the middle clause doesn't seem to have actually happened, that may be the root of our disagreement.
"No, not 'because Trump', 'Because people are scared'."
And you don't think that has anything to do with four years of Trump hysteria?
"And for a century those grave sites were reserved for those people who were not claimed by family, and they were buried once a week."
For a full century, are you sure?
I'm not, I'm going on vague memories from another decade, but I'm fairly sure they had one or two spats of extra activity previous to this one.
"I'm talking about "country A" because I'm strongly tied to country A, and am very invested in how things go here."
I'm sympathetic to the argument, I've used it myself in other circumstances. But it doesn't seem to cover the position you're defending, because the US has done nothing wrong at all in this specific situation. Unless you believe the story that the CIA created the COVID?
"If it had originated in Louisiana they'd want it named COVID-19 too to avoid the stigma on its residents"
And they could want in one hand and squat over the other and see which one filled up first.
It would be called the Metairie Flu or something similar and the name would stick and everyone would get over it. Louisiana doesn't have anywhere near the pull of the CCP.
You seem to be hyper-sensitive to 'stigma.' Rich daddy right?
"people around the country vandalizing cars and and hurling abuse at folks with Lousiana plates etc."
Anyone that would do that is obviously a shithead who was going to be buried under the jail sooner or later. Let's get em out of the way.
"My primary motivation here is the well being of American's of Asian descent"
I appreciate your desire to be our white knight, but please, don't.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Tuesday April 14 2020, @01:27AM (3 children)
"But the middle clause doesn't seem to have actually happened, that may be the root of our disagreement."
I cited hundreds of incidents reported to police per week and find that significant enough to warrant at least minor consideration. (And by minor I mean on the scale of following an established policy to name the disease something neutral, which costs nothing.) You dismissed it as too tiny to matter. We do seem to disagree there.
"And you don't think that has anything to do with four years of Trump hysteria?"
Interesting question. What are you saying? I may be misunderstanding your point here.
I'm reading that as you are asserting that it's largely left-wing people with TDS that are the idiots being triggered to violence?
I expect the fear crosses the political spectrum; certainly the loss of jobs has, and the people dying has. And while I don't have any data on the party affiliation of the perpetrators of violence against asian americans, I'd be pretty skeptical that its all hysterical TDS liberals. And I don't really think that would even make sense -- TDS liberals don't listen to anything Trump says; and if anything they just blame Trump.
It doesn't really make sense that they would be attacking asian americans because of something Trump said. It would make more sense that idiots who members of Trump's base who are scared would be more likely to take cues from Administration's lead on this.
"but I'm fairly sure they had one or two spats of extra activity previous to this one."
And they were probably newsworthy too. Doesn't really change anything.
"Louisiana doesn't have anywhere near the pull of the CCP."
Perhaps. I should have speculated a virus whose first cases originate from Mar-a-Lago instead. They have some pull with Trump; and there's no way he'd let his beloved golf-course get tarred by that brush like that. Not only would he refuse to call it MaralagoFlu -- I'd bet he'd try to sue anyone that did.
"I appreciate your desire to be our white knight, but please, don't."
That's a bit much.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday April 14 2020, @02:21AM (2 children)
Well here's the thing. "Hundreds of incidents per week" doesn't mean anything, without establishing a baseline, without establishing severity. How many incidents per week do we have in a country of this size, without extra factors? You don't tell us, and your sources don't appear to tell us. The bare statistic without the necessary backdrop is meaningless.
I'm reminded of a recent moment when I got stuck somewhere with nothing to do but watch the tv. It was on the "news" and the talking head was telling me that they had calculated that if we did nothing 200,000 people would die over the next year. But he didn't say how many people die normally. He gave no baseline. So what did he really say?
And anyway, the point isn't how many "incidents" there are it's that they are dealt with appropriately. Nobody thinks this is ok. This isn't like the permanent wars overseas, or the tendency to lawlessness among the police, where there are significant constituents that actually think this is ok. This shit is universally condemned.
If we take the other view, then at some point, some arbitrarily high level of 'incidents' and our rights disappear?
"I'm reading that as you are asserting that it's largely left-wing people with TDS that are the idiots being triggered to violence?"
I'm a little more nuanced than that. Each side provokes the other, it's a feedback loop. But a largely pseudo-left-wing media has been whipping up hysteria on both side, and their go-to instrument for that has tended to be TDS.
And since you gave me a couple more paragraphs focused on the voting habits of the people assaulting overtly asian-americans and I don't want to just ignore it, I'll grant that my gut would be they're more likely to be right wing than left in voting terms. Andy Ngo aside...
But here's the thing, I guarantee you, go to any local (R) gathering and suggest you go out and find an asian-american to assault. Do it.
You won't get one word of encouragement, I guarantee you. Not one person is going to give you a thumbs up on that. They're going to look at you like you just announced your medical results; you hit the trifecta! Herpes, Leprosy, AND Bubonic Plague!
And it's not at all unlikely some of the people staring daggers at you are going to be asian-americans themselves, of course.
"Perhaps. I should have speculated a virus whose first cases originate from Mar-a-Lago instead. They have some pull with Trump; and there's no way he'd let his beloved golf-course get tarred by that brush like that. Not only would he refuse to call it MaralagoFlu -- I'd bet he'd try to sue anyone that did."
Well said. I have no disagreement with you there.
But I would be happily against him on that, and continue to happily call it the Palm Beach Flu. My friends in the ACLU would doubtless defend me if necessary.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Tuesday April 14 2020, @08:12AM (1 child)
"The bare statistic without the necessary backdrop is meaningless."
I'd argue the bare statistic without context is not meaningless -- it's suggestive -- and given its being reported widely and across the political spectrum there's "probably something to it". CNN is apt to distort the numbers for a narrative, but Fox news will call them out on it, and vice versa. Like the report that Trump was a shareholder in Sanofi raising the spectre that he was trying to make money off a vaccine -- and then others came out of the woodwork to give it the missing context. He has a couple dozen shares directly, and holds broad mutual funds that have Sanofi among their holdings and that it's a giant nothing-burger.
And I'm not seeing that here. I'm not seeing fox news debunking those numbers by giving them context. They're either quietly affirming the increase in violence, reporting on certain egregious cases, or deflecting the story and focussing on China's misdeeds and that we can't let them off the hook, can't appease them, can't trust the WHO, etc: some of your previous arguments. So that's highly suggestive to me that their is meaning in the numbers. If there wasn't they'd be falling over themselves to show us why its just TDS.
I can also, however, offer that there are peer reviewed studies of other epidemics and pandemics that HAVE also shown visible ethnic minorities have been stigmatized and blamed for the disease. And I argue that the WHO naming policy is based on that work, not as an appeasement of the Chinese CCP. The fact that I can't give you a peer reviewed study, and full context over what's happening right now doesn't render the argument without merit. The value of science, even social science, is that there is predictive value in it; so its reasonable to assert that if we publicly identify a visible minority and blame them for the disease that it WILL lead to violence against them.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK525302/ [nih.gov]
"But here's the thing, I guarantee you, go to any local (R) gathering and suggest you go out and find an asian-american to assault. Do it. You won't get one word of encouragement, I guarantee you. Not one person is going to give you a thumbs up on that. They're going to look at you like you just announced your medical results"
Generally, I take your point and I agree.
"If we take the other view, then at some point, some arbitrarily high level of 'incidents' and our rights disappear?"
No, I am not suggesting we take away your right to say WuFlu or ChinaFlu or anything else. I think its irresponsible and harmful name, and I think you should be persuaded to choose to call it COVID-19, the neutral and official name selected by the WHO, and think all that goes triple for Trump and members of his administration.
But if you continue to choose not to, I think you are making the wrong choice, but if someone tried to actually stop you: I'll donate to the ACLU to defend you myself.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday April 14 2020, @09:49PM
"No, I am not suggesting we take away your right to say WuFlu or ChinaFlu or anything else."
Good, then I guess we agree more than it appeared at first.
"I think its irresponsible and harmful name, and I think you should be persuaded to choose to call it COVID-19, the neutral and official name selected by the WHO, and think all that goes triple for Trump and members of his administration."
I see your point, I don't completely disagree (though the WHO's word is completely worthless to me at this point, the rest of your point I see,) but I think it's a reality that most people are going to use common names, not Linnean. Maybe that's not a good thing, but I don't think we can change it. And I do think that any attempt to police the common language is a very bad idea.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 13 2020, @08:37AM
God no, don't. The US is "special".
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 13 2020, @08:42AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 5, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Saturday April 11 2020, @04:08PM
...wakes up
Wait, what? You must not be from the USA, or new here, or seriously not paying attention to the masses. We hardly ever learn from the mistakes of history. The tiny, rich minority who control our legislators do, however, occasionally shift things around a bit to make more profits, consolidate power, or both. Sometimes that looks like a lesson from history has been taken to heart, but really, that's not what's happening at all. The vast majority of it is reflexive twitching directly consequent to current events without any reflection on the past whatsoever.
You know why I know those things? Because I study history, that's why.
goes back to sleep...
--
You can't teach someone who refuses to learn.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday April 12 2020, @11:42AM (1 child)
I thought there was consensus that the first identifiable outbreak was in Kansas, and subsequent cases are explained by outflow from there.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Sunday April 12 2020, @04:41PM
That's one of several possibilities, it was particularly popular about 2004, subsequent studies have cast doubt on the conclusions. Ultimately we may never know.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday April 11 2020, @08:52AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Thexalon on Saturday April 11 2020, @02:32PM (1 child)
1. Actual scientists have been calling it Covid-19 or coronavirus (both accurate terms based on the virus's taxonomy, form, and genetics).
2. The concept of "Chinese Virus" was invented by a guy trying to dodge responsibility for his own actions by placing the blame on foreigners.
3. China is just the first place where it was detected and identified. It might have spread before that.
It's as much as misnomer as "Spanish flu" was for what went around in 1918, and probably didn't originate in Spain.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Informative) by crafoo on Saturday April 11 2020, @03:55PM
1. 2. 3. I don't care.
It did orginate in Wuhan, and therefore is not, "as much as misnomer as 'Spanish flu'"
(Score: 2) by DeVilla on Saturday April 11 2020, @06:22PM
I guess I don't really care.
If we ever start branding human diseases and malities like we do computer malities, then I vote for "Wuhan Flu". And I would suggest a logo sort of like this [gstatic.com]. Labs could label blood samples of carriers as "The Blood of Wuhan Flu". If a mutated strain starts spreading, it can be called "The Return of Wuhan Flu" or "The Vengeance of Wuhan Flu". People would all have to wear their "Mask(s) of Wuhan Flu".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:20AM (1 child)
Comrade, former filthy imports from the west [pri.org] are now the peoples pets. The former hated royal shih tzu [easypetmd.com] is now the peoples shih tzu and has always been the peoples shih tzu.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @02:43AM
Shit-sue by name Shit-sue by nature.
Have you ever met one of the little shits? They are most unpleasant critters that bark at everything.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:21AM (1 child)
"Chinese" isn't a race. There are many ethnicities in China.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @03:58AM
^fact^
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:26AM (22 children)
It isn't race alone. Chin was a family name, originally. In effect, the dominant clan has branded the entire country with their clan name. And, of course, given time, the dominant clan spreads it's genes throughout the nation, so that today everyone is actually related to the House of Chin. Non-dominant tribes and clans were pretty much wiped out along the way. So, yeah, race+ if you will.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:33AM (7 children)
Do you know what a haplogroup is? Because trivially available genetic data doesn't correspond to your claim of "everyone" by patrilineage or matrilineage, nor do less glaringly clear but still extremely evident genetic data in other chromosomes. Unless you mean "everyone is related to the House of Chin" in the same way that you are.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:49AM (5 children)
The likelihood that any random Chinese person on the street of Beijing can trace a lineage to a member of the House of Chin is extremely high. In fact, that average Chinese person may trace that lineage by two, three, four, or more different routes. The likelihood that any random American can do the same is considerably lower. And, any random Peruvian? Or Kenyan?
Don't try to apply your haplo groupings where they don't apply. You'll look as silly as any carpenter trying to cut his lumber to length, using his hammer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @06:06AM (2 children)
Most Pennsylvannia Polacks are descended from Asian stock by way of the Mongols, as are most Chinese today. Something you have in common, you mongoloid Runaway fucking Chinese Arkanasawian! This is all your fault? I fuck you in your general direction, with great social distancing, to be sure you get no satisfaction from it! Asshole.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday April 11 2020, @06:19AM (1 child)
Chin wasn't Mongolian, was he? Nor are Mongolians Chinese. Poles? Yeah, some Mongol in there, but mostly caucasian. So, your turn - if you have a point to make, let's hear it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @08:13AM
Not that you're racist, Runaway, but, . . .
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @07:56AM
You're moving goalposts.
Ok, look, likelihood is not the same as, quote, "everyone is". Your words.
Just say "most" and I won't disagree. Those of us who write software and/or work in law make a massive distinction between "all" and "most". Eg. China claims Tibet, and for a concrete example, Tibetans do not as a majority have Han lineage, IIRC.
...what? Maybe you need some sleep.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @07:58AM
Ps. "the same way that you can" means the same way that snails and trees can. Go far enough back and we share common ancestors.
Took me a while to figure out wtf you were getting at, bringing Peruvians in.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 13 2020, @08:55AM
I bet you share *no* genetic material with half of your 10-th generation ancestors, despite you being a descendent of them.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: -1, Troll) by aristarchus on Saturday April 11 2020, @06:11AM (13 children)
Runaway, you are doing it again. You are displaying your ignorance in a way that only Donald himself could rival. If you want us to listen to you, you should stick to facts, not what you have heard in your ignorant and storied life. It is like listening to Trump go on about tariffs, with his petty businessman's understanding of economics. He is just wrong, because he is stupid. Intellectually incurious, as they use to say of Precedent W Bush. But in your case, there never was any curious to not be of. So Sad. You are a worse loser than Trump, Runaway, as evident by your ignorance, poverty, and hoplophilia.
(Score: 1, Redundant) by Runaway1956 on Saturday April 11 2020, @06:24AM (12 children)
We should listen to a faux petty philosopher instead? Sure, I understand that you are intellectually curious, but the world doesn't revolve, or rotate, around some curiosity that wishes it understood the philosophy from a long dead era that it regurgitates from time to time. Civilizations have arisen and fallen since the time of those long-dead Greeks - including those Greek's own civilization. Although, come to think of it, the real Aristarchus was just about contemporary with some of the Chin.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by aristarchus on Saturday April 11 2020, @06:31AM (11 children)
Seriously, you petty hillbilly ex-trucker, you have no idea who you are talking to, here, do you? Do you not think I was not intimately aware of the writings o Shang-yang, and Han Fei Zi? Yes, took them some time to make it over the Silk Road to Alexandria, but books were more valuable than silk, much like how in these times ideas are more important than idiotic emotional appeals to the least educated Americans. I am the real Aristarchus, you idiot. And you really, really, have no idea what racist bullshit you are repeating from your Russian paymasters.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday April 11 2020, @06:49AM (10 children)
Funny you should mention that. Which party is more worried about "my feelz"? I mean, we can't call a fag a fag, can't name a whore as a whore, can't even notice or make mention of a prson's color, because we might offend them? Yeah, I gotta agree that ideas are more important than "my feelz", which is why I don't respect "safe spaces". Thank you for agreeing with me!!
Now, back to ideas - Chinese is almost a race unto itself in some ways, but it's race+ in some ways too. It's like they are almost all one big extended family.
(Score: 3, Touché) by aristarchus on Saturday April 11 2020, @07:03AM (9 children)
China is a culture, you moran! A Civilization. When your ancestors were watching the Medieval Minstrel verision of "Tiger King" the Chinese were doing math, astronomy, medicine and engineering that would blow your socks off. No, seriously, you are too ignorant to even attempt to educate, Runaway! i have had students like you in past, millennia ago, veterans of the Asiatic wars, dumb as whole bags of hammers, but no one could tell them they were wrong, because they were so certain they were right. Even though everything they thought they knew was completely wrong. Not long ago, Runaway, you completely embarrassed your self here on SoylentNews with your total ignorance about the population of China. And you think anyone should trust your judgement on a Civilization that was very far along while your ancestors where still working out the connection be sex and pregnancy? Please! Spare us your lack of knowledge, Runaway! You grow tiresome, and are revealing yourself to be a fucktard racist hillbilly. Stop
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday April 11 2020, @07:22AM (2 children)
I think that you're a veteran of the psychic wars.
Population of China? You'll have to refresh my memory on the supposed "embarrasment". A billion and a half, give or take? https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/china/population [ceicdata.com]
(Score: 4, Funny) by aristarchus on Saturday April 11 2020, @07:50AM (1 child)
Runaway, you are an idiot. An imbecile. An ignoramous. A dilletante. A poser. A knave and a poltroon. You are too stupid to carry on a conversation with. So I will just continue to insult you. Some of these you may not recognize as insults, you roundhead pollywagger, but take my word for it, they are. You denizen of the most shit-hole county in Arkansas, dependent on Foreigners for employment! Purveyor of Fox News Talking points! You mendacious bastard! Racist pig! Untermenschen lumpenproletariat! Slack-jawed Slantern! 小人! Petty Minded Hater of Those Smarter than yourself! Snaggle-toothed Bald-headed Poofta! Bespawler of the juice of Tobacco! Fopdoodle with appendage! You did not know the population of China, in accordance with the rest of your ignorance, some time ago when you make a typical stupid post, and you were called upon it. Now, like Seah Hankity, you try to rewrite history, by Googling? Oh, thin gruel, Runaway! Your ignorance is apparent to one and all, and the libs, well, any moderately educated liberal, or conservative, can see you are filled with the most deleterious excrement. Do not reply to this comment, Runaway. As your superior, I command you! Do not!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday April 11 2020, @10:22AM
I'll just remind you that I have met superiors in my lifetime. They are few, and far between, almost as rare as hen's teeth. Aristarchus, the original, may have been my superior. Faux Aristarchus? ROFLMAO, your dreams aren't even that good!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Saturday April 11 2020, @08:18AM (5 children)
No. China is a country. There certainly are cultural traits common to the people in China, but that only means that Chinese culture exists, not that China is a culture.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Saturday April 11 2020, @08:33AM (4 children)
I would deg to biffer. China has never been a country until the Warlord Kiang Kai Shek tried to make it one. Or perhaps 孫逸仙, but when 毛泽东 took over, really China went back to being an Empire, and did not emerge to be a "country" until Tricky Dick Nixon visited. And they still are not used to to. Love how the elections for Parliment in Taiwan where advertised as the first democratic elections since 1949, when actually they were the first in China, ever, and then only a small bandit province of China.
No, China is a culture. Ethnicity does not define Chinese-ness, as much as the Han would like to think so. And Vietnam, Singapore, Korea(s) and Japan all fall under Chinese civilization. History, philosophy, religion, writing systems, Confucianism. Only recently has China realized it is only one among many, and it has not quite sunk in, yet. Maxwell, give me Tibet for $500!
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday April 11 2020, @01:28PM (2 children)
I wonder what your definition of “country” is. Because I would certainly consider an empire to be a country.
In any case, China is a political entity. It is neither an ethnicity nor a culture.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @09:34PM
Ireland (N and S) and Scotland would like a word with you.
Puerto Rico would like a word with you.
Etc.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Sunday April 12 2020, @12:44AM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday April 11 2020, @02:49PM
Qin Shi Huang would definitely disagree with you. I mean, how badass do you have to be to have your name on the map 2200 years after you conquered the relevant territory? And there were several successor dynasties that controlled a large percentage of the territory now known as modern China.
Like a lot of countries, China has had times when it was internally divided, and also had changes to what territory they actually controlled on their edges, but that makes them no different from most other modern countries, from Russia to Germany to the USA.
And this is all to the degree that the word "country" means anything other than "an territory under a common governmental structure at any particular time in history", of course. The concept that it meant anything other than that was invented in approximately the late 1800's to convince people to fight in wars while the kings and other top brass stayed safe at home.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @06:12AM (1 child)
Yeah because naming this disease after the place it originated from is a novel concept.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 11 2020, @07:52AM
Trumpdementia. Got it.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Saturday April 11 2020, @09:32PM
"Chinese" is actually not a race, but a nationality. Most people conflate "Chinese" with the group of people they mean. The name of the actual race is "Han." To put it in a more familiar context, it's like claiming that "Ebola" is racist against Ebolans.
Most people in the West do not know that China has many ethnic groups and the Han, while being by far the largest, are only one of them. If you look at the area of China where the Han live, it's about 1/3 of the total; basically, everything from Harbin in the NE to Xian in the West to Hong Kong in the South, and then up the coast is Han country.
Ethnic Mongolians inhabit Inner Mongolia, though I believe they have become a minority there because Beijing has been flooding them with Han settlers. Uighurs inhabit Xinjiang in the NW, bordering Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. Ethnic Tibetans inhabit Qinghai (part of the Tibetan Plateau) and Tibet. Yunnan in the SW bordering Vietnam, Laos, and Burma comprises something like 50+ ethnic minorities.
In other words, this must be called "Chinese Coronavirus" or, more specifically, "Wuhan Coronavirus." Those claiming "Chinese" is racist are incorrect, and that the Western press is not reporting that represents a significant propaganda victory for the Chinese Communist Party.
Washington DC delenda est.