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Supreme Court rules non-unanimous jury verdicts unconstitutional
The Supreme Court on Monday ruled that defendants in criminal trials can only be convicted by a unanimous jury, striking down a scheme that has been rejected by every state except one. The court said in a divided opinion that the Constitution requires agreement among all members of a jury in order to impose a guilty verdict.
"Wherever we might look to determine what the term 'trial by an impartial jury trial' meant at the time of the Sixth Amendment's adoption—whether it's the common law, state practices in the founding era, or opinions and treatises written soon afterward—the answer is unmistakable," Justice Neil Gorsuch wrote in an opinion. "A jury must reach a unanimous verdict in order to convict."
Oregon is the only state left in which defendants can be convicted over the dissent of up to two jurors. Louisiana recently abandoned the practice after more than a century of use.
The ruling overturns the 2016 conviction of a Louisiana man named Evangelisto Ramos. A jury by a 10-2 margin found him guilty of killing a woman in New Orleans. Two years after Ramos's conviction, Louisiana voters approved a constitutional amendment getting rid of non-unanimous jury verdicts. The new ruling likely means that Ramos could get a new trial.
From the Ramos v. Louisiana syllabus:
In 48 States and federal court, a single juror's vote to acquit is enough to prevent a conviction. But two States, Louisiana and Oregon, have long punished people based on 10-to-2 verdicts. In this case, petitioner Evangelisto Ramos was convicted of a serious crime in a Louisiana court by a 10-to-2 jury verdict. Instead of the mistrial he would have received almost anywhere else, Ramos was sentenced to life without parole. He contests his conviction by a nonunanimous jury as an unconstitutional denial of the Sixth Amendment right to a jury trial.
Held: The judgment is reversed.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2020, @09:59PM (17 children)
And two jurors thought he wasn't guilty? That's the problem with allowing Mexicans to sit on juries.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2020, @10:25PM (16 children)
While not trying to bless your thoughts that drove you to write this, Oregon apparently went to non-unanimous juries because a Jew on a jury was the only holdout in the trial of a Jew accused of committing murder (against a non-Jew).
(Score: 1) by Arik on Tuesday April 21 2020, @11:21PM (14 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Sulla on Tuesday April 21 2020, @11:29PM (13 children)
I was wondering about this myself, this is all that I can find, from the wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apodaca_v._Oregon [wikipedia.org]
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2020, @11:46PM
Here are some non-Wiki links about the case:
http://claytontullos.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Non-Unanimous-Jury-Trials-in-Oregon-Published.pdf [claytontullos.com]
https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2017/09/dirty_secret_of_oregon_jury_sy.html [oregonlive.com]
https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2017/09/inside_the_1933_murder_trial_t.html [oregonlive.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Wednesday April 22 2020, @12:03AM (9 children)
It's interesting how often measures that are problematic from a human rights perspective have been initially justified as necessary to constrain an out-group. I think it compares with the justification of 2nd amendment abridgement by the spectre of non-whites bearing arms, or the justification of prohibition (of alcohol/opiates/cannabis/coca) to inhibit insidious (Catholic/Chinese/Mexican/Black) seducers.
The argument isn't even completely wrong. There are cultures that have a long history of dealing with certain drugs and have relatively few problems, others that don't may experience more difficulty when they are introduced. It's not completely wrong, but it's mostly a red-herring, as the fact shouldn't be allowed to have significant effect on policy.
Why not? Because infantilising the citizens is not a good long term policy, even in the best case.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 5, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday April 22 2020, @12:57AM (8 children)
Something to keep in mind, regarding Louisiana:
They had Napoleonic law, before being bought by the US, and they kept Napoleonic law even after becoming a state. That makes Louisiana unique, in that they have pretty much never had a presumption of innocence. The rest of the Louisiana purchase dropped Napoleonic law before becoming states, and maybe even before becoming territories. Arkansas and Mississippi law both conform to English common law far more than Louisiana does. There are some pretty stark differences between the two legal traditions.
Oregon is very different again. As the other posters above point out, that whole business was a "popular" racist reaction to a high profile case.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by nishi.b on Wednesday April 22 2020, @04:15AM (7 children)
Presumption of innocence *is* part of "Napoleonic law". The main difference is that in common law, you are supposed to judge in conformity with past cases, whereas in Napoleonic law the judge just has to read the law (how past cases were judged can still influence, bur are not required to).
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday April 22 2020, @09:07AM (5 children)
Visit Mexico, as a tourist, businessman, whatever. Get involved in an auto accident. I was warned 40+ years ago NOT to drive in Mexico, because they'll keep you until everything is sorted out. With money in your pocket for bribes and a hotel, you might be semi-free while you wait. With no money, you'll sit in jail. That isn't "presumed innocence" in my book.
(Score: 4, Funny) by nishi.b on Wednesday April 22 2020, @10:51AM (3 children)
Yeah, because Napoleon was mexican, I guess...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @11:27AM
danged furriners is all the same.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday April 22 2020, @02:46PM (1 child)
LMAO, you need to study a bit of history. Here's a PDF that might help you to understand a little about Mexican law - http://www.lawmexico.com/articles/Mexican%20Legal%20System%20For%20Foreigners.pdf [lawmexico.com]
Need I help you to understand how France, and Napoleon came to be involved in Mexico? Alright, for starters, "Cinco de Mayo", commemmorates the Battle of Pueblo, fought against the French Empire, NOT against Spaniards. https://www.thoughtco.com/cinco-de-mayo-the-basics-2136661 [thoughtco.com]
Personally, I don't celebrate Cinco de Mayo. I prefer to quietly observe Camerone Day, on April 30th. http://foreignlegion.info/battle-of-camerone/ [foreignlegion.info]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:32PM
>> I prefer to quietly observe Camerone Day
Cameron Diaz has her own day there? Cool.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:06PM
<no-sarcasm>
The US would never harass and detain someone like Dmitry Sklyarov [wikipedia.org] at the behest of a private company like Adobe. Taking his passport. Detaining him here for six months away from his wife and young child. Because he dared to reveal how insanely weak Adobe's PDF DRM actually was, to the huge embarrassment of Adobe who was trying to peddle this absurdly weak system to those wanting to DRM their PDFs.
</no-sarcasm>
I'm so glad we got much gooder justice than these mexicans got.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday April 23 2020, @12:09AM
Well, that's not wrong. The main difference is actually that common law precedes the state, the state relies on it for authority and is to some degree constrained by it. Under your "Napoleonic" law (basically synonymous in this context with Roman law) the state is the ultimate authority, the law is whatever the state says it is, and therefore the law does not really constrain the state.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by driverless on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:20AM
In particular, that link and the articles it links to mention that the suspect was Jewish, nothing more. I couldn't find anything about the ethnicity of the holdout juror in the original writeup on it [oregonlive.com]. There is mention of "immigrants from eastern Europe" and "mixed-blood jurors" so it could have been generic racism/anti-semitism, given that it was 1933.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:33PM
The Morning Oregonian "railed against the juror in an editorial tinged with racist undertones and nativist fervor,"
oh no!, not THE TRUTH!
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday April 23 2020, @08:29PM
Which, of course could mean 11 non-Jews were ready to just blame the Jew and the 1 Jewish juror actually weighed the evidence and found it wanting.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Sulla on Tuesday April 21 2020, @10:41PM (6 children)
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/18-5924_n6io.pdf [supremecourt.gov]
Link to the text of the Ramos V Louisiana opinion. Pretty good read.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Tuesday April 21 2020, @10:46PM
From Gorsuch
tldr Powell didn't know what he was talking about
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2, Informative) by Sulla on Tuesday April 21 2020, @10:48PM (1 child)
Really interesting breakdown. The dissent came from Alito, Roberts, and Kagan
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by driverless on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:27AM
Caput tuum in ano est.
(Score: 2) by DrkShadow on Wednesday April 22 2020, @01:31AM (2 children)
Argh, I don't want to read a PDF.
Was the vote unanimous?
(Score: 2) by DrkShadow on Wednesday April 22 2020, @01:46AM
Sulla says no, it was not unanimous.
Thanks, Sulla!
(Score: 3, Funny) by driverless on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:23AM
No, the jury was split 10-2.
(Score: -1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2020, @11:14PM (25 children)
See subject: I'm so sick & tired of SoylentNews BULLIES just like the /. & ArSeHoleTechnica bullies. You SHITWEASELS have nothing better to do than HARASS, STALK & IMPERSONATE little ol' me. I've done absolutely NOTHING wrong & just try to make everyone's lives better w/ my work that stops ads & malware.
* As soon as I post, I'm CENSORED to -1 w/ ABUSED spamdownmodpoints by FAKENAME bullies like The Mighty Buzzard, Runaway1956, Azuma Hazuki & Tom "Barbara" Hudson. I caught c6gunner mocking then IMPERSONATING me on /. when he forgot to log out. Zontar The Mindless mailed me a postcard w/ THREATS on it, then LIES & STALKS me. All because you JEALOUS JOWIE "ne'er-do-wells" KNOW I'm World-Class & you're shit. It's why you hide behind FAKE names & UNIDENTIFIABLE ANONYMOUS.
I caught Tom "Barbara" Hudson IMPERSONATING me too. The OLD NOT-MAN soyboy weezil is JUDEN TRASH and knows nothing about computers so IT LIES about me instead. This is one sick in the head IDLE HANDS ARE THE DEVIL'S WORKSHOP abomination, no questions asked. You wish you were me & that's why you IMPERSONATE & ATTACK me.
I'm even improving my already GREAT PHYSIQUE & SUPERIOR INTELLECT while you weezils & soyboys sit around all day on SoylentNews STALKING & HARASSING your BETTERS. I repeatedly dust the no-mind bullshit blatherings you BULLIES post to attack me. Like always I WIN & YOU LOSE. That's why you keep spamdownmod HIDING my posts & STALKING me w/ FAKENAME accounts. You CAN'T stop me any better than whipslash @ /. & he knows I could STOP HIS SERVER whenever I want. Martyb KNOWS he CAN'T DO BETTER than I w/ APK Hosts File Engine instead of some TOY website based on someone else's ABANDONED & BROKEN code from another site FULL of "ne'er-do-well" fakename forum focks.
Now I have the PILL-PUSHING SELF-PROCLAIMED "SiDeWaLk-ShRiNk of SOYLENTNEWS" LIBELING me & saying I'm MENTALLY ILL. ALL of you SHITWEASELS are mentally ill & can't stop BULLYING me because you WISH YOU WERE ME. PROVE you've done better than I. You can't & you know it so BULLYING & LIBELING is all YOUR KIND has left.
APK
P.S.=> This BULLYING of me is SO UNFAIR & I've done nothing to deserve it from you people. I'm tired of CASTING PEARLS before SWINE with my work that you CAN'T do better than. GROW UP... apk
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2020, @11:19PM (2 children)
Yawn.
(Score: 4, Funny) by khallow on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:56AM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23 2020, @01:48AM
It wasn't me! Somebody is impersonating me!
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @12:03AM
How could a deranged sociopathic idiot with an ugly and fat body possibly write the parent post?! He is obviously chiseled like a Greek GOD and should be praised for paying any attention to you losers! Bow before apk!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday April 22 2020, @12:37AM (6 children)
Hey Alex? Just sayin': if you're trying to convince people that you're *not* mentally ill? ...then the above post is really, really not helping your case. You sound nuttier than a marzipan teapot and about half as useful.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Offtopic) by barbara hudson on Wednesday April 22 2020, @01:56AM (5 children)
He lost his mind a couple of decades ago. Spammed the crap out of everywhere he could think of trying to sell his Hosts File software, which I mocked by pointing out generating a new one is a one-liner under *nix (he's a Windows luser),
Am I "JUDEN TRASH "? First time I've had that accusation thrown at me, but if it pisses him off, sure, I'll embrace it. Oy vay!
He's really pissed off at me since I pointed out that searches for APK Hosts File now goes to one of his competitors, who actually has their own website like a real software vendor, and that his failure to invest a few bucks in a domain and a website (because he can't afford the cost, being unemployed basically since the turn of the century - but his story keeps changing) he lost it.
His 100+ spams every day against me on the green site led to them dropping anonymous posts. Seriously, what is the big deal with being required to log in, even with a made-up nym? Nyms aren't tied to your identity. And true anonymity on the net is almost impossible. Look at the layoffs of 1/3 of the staff at the TOR developers.
I have anonymous posts hidden by default, but since there are child posts that are visible, I really couldn't help but see this - and it's freaking hilarious. All the libtards who insist on the sanctity of anonymous posts - this is what it gets you.
So sad that it makes Facebook look good in comparison wrt user experience and public reach.
Today's poll was very revealing - the average user is OLD! And people tend to lean more right-wing as they age, something that is accentuated in tech in all ages to begin with. No wonder there's a problem with misogyny on pretty much every single tech site. APK is more representative of the community than most would like to admit.
Poor APK, but he's not the only one who takes the Internet too seriously. And with the lockdown and nothing else to do, it's going to get worse. I should be grateful that I'm part of essential services so I'm not stuck sitting in front of a keyboard trying to make myself feel relevant or sell useless software, unlike APK, who hasn't been relevant at any time since at least Win95.
I should have stuck with my first instinct. When APK first started shitposting here, I emailed Marty and asked him to delete my account to prevent just this situation. It's obvious that as long as anonymous posts are allowed, this problem won't go away; I'm lucky because, as I've pointed out in other posts, I don't have to worry about my "internet reputation " because I can get 100 people in real life who will vouchsafe me, including the directors and co-workers at the charity I volunteer at. But it could be harmful for others who aren't as implicated in their communities, and don't have such a history. It's a cautionary tale for others in a way. Build up your real world presence or you can be harmed by such assholes.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @04:34PM
Your "lol he's nuts" turned into "seriously I'm real" pretty quick. Little weird.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:14PM (1 child)
Still sore @ me kicking yer ass publicly tranny https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=33430&page=1&cid=889582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] ? Yes, OBVIOUSLY (lol). You did that all to yourself since you are incompetent & STUPID. You "threw a fit" there after I posted that! Embarassment you caused for YOURSELF led to that, where you BEGGED the PUSSY fuck that runs this PUNY INSIGNIFICANT SITE nobody really cares about OR GOES TO site, lol - you begged to have your account deleted, lol - loser (help me mommy says barb, lol).
Doubtless due to ALL THE DRUGS YOU ARE ON (& yes, I KNOW you are) & you SHOULD have had your account deleted. You need to be DELETED from this LIFE you sick in the head FREAK "TrAnStEsTiCuLaR MONSTROSITY".
I haven't HAD to work for ANYONE since 2007 freak. I've told you before I RUN MY OWN BUSINESS & actually have WORTH (real worth, & you don't YOU WELFARE SUCKING "DISABLED" (by SAWING OFF YOUR COCK & BALLS since you are an INSANE whacko that did that to yourself too, OMG, lol) you BULLSHIT ARTIST TOTAL LOSER - truer words were NEVER spoken about you, loser).
You "VOLUNTEER"? LOL - doing what?? Barbara Hudson's SUCK SERVICE for OLD HOMOS @ the VA Hospital?? LMAO - probably.
(Some "Essential Service', lmao).
* I hope this shithole waste of a site closes off ANON POSTS - why? Barely ANYONE comes here as is, do that, this place will go to ZERO & have to go away (& thus, so will you freak, lol)
Most of all - you & your sockpuppet "friends" (just you most likely using multiple accounts) HAVE TO IMPERSONATE ME (since I didn't write the post you replied to)?
It proves EVERYTHING that needs proving here - in addition to your MULTIPLE SELF-DEFEATS vs. me in the link above you CAN'T STAND since you were SO STUPID blundering mistake after mistake vs. me in its points...
APK
P.S.=> Lastly: FREAK, I've done MORE THAN YOU EVER HAVE (anyone can see the link I posted above as to that much & they'll see results I produced that did well vs. t hreats online + TONS MORE that YES, you ARE AWARE OF in publications as well as being paid well for code I wrote that SELLS TO THIS VERY DAY from a certified Microsoft partner STUPID fucking DO-NOTHING INCAPABLE LOSER you TRULY are (& we all know it - prove otherwise - YOU CAN'T since you haven't EVER DONE SHIT of ANY worth whatsoever fucker). I do well in all things - whereas YOU do nothing but "CHATTER ONLINE" like the FUCKING FOOL FREAK TRANNY LOSER you are TWISTO - everyone KNOWS what YOU are, lol & it is DISGUSTING you RIDICULOUS ABOMINATION)... apk
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:49PM
2020, the year bigotry became boring.
Like, are people still doing that lol? What an anachronism.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:23PM
I don't understand the problem with browsing at -1. I've done that from day one here and I've never had a problem with too much crap to sift through. Actually, there is very little here.
If she doesn't want to engage with the plebes and low-lifers below +2, well, I guess that is her loss.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:25PM
Still sore @ me kicking yer ass publicly tranny freak https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=33430&page=1&cid=889582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] ? Yes, OBVIOUSLY (lol).
You did that all to yourself since you are incompetent & STUPID & a TWISTED ABOMINATION sick in the head TRANNY weirdo LOSER (but you sure TRY to "play smart" but vs. me you FELL FLAT ON YOUR FACE publicly, lol - no denying it loser).
You also threw a raged shitfit there, calling for the PUNK SITE OWNER HERE (help me mommy, lmao) to burn your account in due to your BLUNDERING shame publicly vs. me you can't hide, hehehe!
THEN YOU IMPERSONATED ME making it look like I APOLOGIZED TO YOU https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=35327&page=1&cid=937346#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] you fucking DECEITFUL disgusting LYING TRANNY weirdo LOSER?
Bullshit I did!
Why WOULD I after LIES about me you spew (just a few below prove it you FUCK) & after I BLEW YOUR DUMB ASS AWAY in the link above?
Hahahahaha - OH, the PUBLIC HUMILIATION for you, lol!
Doubtless due to ALL THE DRUGS YOU ARE ON (& YES, I KNOW that you are) & you SHOULD have had your account deleted.
You need to be DELETED from this LIFE you sick in the head FREAK "TrAnStEsTiCuLaR MONSTROSITY".
Barbara Hudson LIKES TO TELL LIES ABOUT ME (projecting "its" OWN issues in being a SAW OFF ITS OWN COCK & BALLS useless loser "self DISABLED" TRANNY FREAK, lol - that's no disability, it's INSANITY clearly!)
You lie saying I don't work OR that I haven't in "25 yrs" etc.?
WRONG!
I've said it MANY TIMES to YOU directly, LYING FUCK YOU ARE, that I still contract idiot but I don't HAVE to as I run my own show in other business!
FACT: Still - I haven't HAD to work for ANYONE but myself really since 2007 freak.
I've told you before I RUN MY OWN BUSINESS & actually have WORTH + real estate holdings galore!
(That's MY real worth, & you barbara TOM hudson don't have SHIT, you USELESS LEECH WELFARE SUCKING "DISABLED" total BULLSHIT ARTIST twisted TRANZOID loser (by SAWING OFF YOUR COCK & BALLS since you are an INSANE whacko that did that to yourself too, OMG, lol) - truer words were NEVER spoken about you, loser).
You "VOLUNTEER"? LOL - doing what??
Barbara Hudson's SUCK SERVICE for OLD HOMOS @ the VA Hospital??
LMAO - probably.
(Some "Essential Service", lmao).
* I hope this shithole waste of a site closes off ANON POSTS - why? Barely ANYONE comes here as is, do that, this place will go to ZERO & have to go away (& thus, so will you freak, lol)
Most of all - you & your sockpuppet "friends" (just you most likely using multiple accounts) ARE REDUCED TO IMPERSONATING ME since you can't manage to prove me wrong in that TOPMOST LINK to your UTTER PUBLIC HUMILIATION vs. myself, in IMPERSONATIONS of ME like e.g. https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=37178&page=1&cid=985582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] (since I didn't write the post you replied to)!
It proves EVERYTHING that needs proving here along w/ my FACTUAL STATEMENTS here too about you, scumbag TRANSTESTICLE FREAK!
All in addition to your MULTIPLE SELF-DEFEATS vs. me in the TOPMOST LINK above you CAN'T STAND since you were SO STUPID blundering mistake after mistake vs. me in its points...
APK
P.S.=> Lastly: FREAK, I've done MORE THAN YOU EVER HAVE or EVER WILL you USELESS no skills BULLSHIT ARTIST LAZY STUPID piece of TWISTO TRANNY CRAP FREAK ABOMINATION & you, + most likely MOST here, KNOW already!
Anyone can see the link I posted above as to that much & they'll see results I produced that did well vs. threats online w/ @ LEAST 1/4 MILLION USERS OF MY WORK TO DATE
+ TONS MORE that YES, you ARE AWARE OF in publications in computing I have to MY NAME!
(You don't & NEVER will loser)
That's all in addition to my being paid well for code I wrote that SELLS TO THIS VERY DAY from a certified Microsoft partner that placed as a FINALIST @ Microsoft TechEd 2000-2002 in its HARDEST CATEGORY SQLServer Performance Enhancement 2 yrs. in a ROW you DO-NOTHING INCAPABLE imcompetent FAILURE LOSER you TRULY are!
So, & I've asked this of you before (to SHAME your LAZY incompetent ass): YOU'VE DONE MORE/BETTER? Hell no!
(& a LOSER you KNOW you ARE never can or will, freak (& we all know it - prove otherwise - YOU CAN'T since you haven't EVER DONE SHIT of ANY worth whatsoever you USELESS mentally TWISTED trantesticular MONSTROSITY abberration abomination). I do well in all things - whereas YOU do nothing but "CHATTER ONLINE" like the FUCKING FOOL FREAK TRANNY LOSER you are TWISTO - everyone KNOWS what YOU are, lol & it is DISGUSTING you RIDICULOUS ABOMINATION))... apk
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday April 22 2020, @01:00AM
Aren't you needed on one of the *chans?
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @01:27AM
LmAo: Impersonating me doing what I'd never do (which is "play victim" when the truth is you made YOURSELVES my victims being STUPID ENOUGH to try "take me on" only to go "SPLAT" after I knocked you all flat via facts vs. your errors - classic case? Barbara Hudson https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=33430&page=1&cid=889582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] as just 1 single example thereof as proof, no questions asked & undeniable, concrete, & factually verifiable on all grounds of how I TOTALLY SPLATTERED that fucking tranny weirdo).
* I do like what you PROJECTED though about my type of person vs. "your kind" (SLIMY little SLINKING worms that play BITCH games like IMPERSONATING me).
APK
P.S.=> What a pack of SERIOUS BOZOS lurk around this shithole - glad I'm NOT one of you, that's certain... apk
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday April 22 2020, @02:26AM
Dumb question, but do you have to put in <strong /> tags manually for all of the bold stuff? Just wondering, considering its, er, prosody (secondary definition, I think) if all of the bolding was hand-coded.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by barbara hudson on Wednesday April 22 2020, @02:56AM (3 children)
Right back at you, ass. You're hiding behind anonymous posts, Alexander Peter Kowolski. But I don't - I post under my legal name.
And both that "pill-pushing " Azusa (works in a pharm) and I work in essential services. You haven't worked in 2 decades. So how's that whole "Hosts File guy" gig working out for you? Not so well, obviously. It's been fun watching your descent into internet crazy. Keep it up - it validates the whole idea that anonymous posts should be banned. Jump piggy, jump! Squeal like a pig! So-wee!
20 years and you still feel this compulsion to follow me around and attack me unbidden. And you claim to be sane???
We provide essential services. You have never provided anything of value in more than 20 years. But keep on - I've been saying for years that people should be required to log in to post, and you're just furthering my agenda. Useful idiot.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:54PM
Ha, who's the puppet now?!?
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:10PM
Still sore @ me kicking yer ass publicly tranny https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=33430&page=1&cid=889582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] ? Yes, OBVIOUSLY (lol). You did that all to yourself since you are incompetent & STUPID. You "threw a fit" there, doubtless due to ALL THE DRUGS YOU ARE ON (you are) & you SHOULD have had your account deleted. You need to be DELETED from this LIFE you sick in the head FREAK "TrAnStEsTiCuLaR MONSTROSITY".
I haven't HAD to work for ANYONE since 2007 freak. I've told you before I RUN MY OWN BUSINESS & actually have WORTH (real worth, & you don't YOU WELFARE SUCKING "DISABLED" (by SAWING OFF YOUR COCK & BALLS since you are an INSANE whacko that did that to yourself too, OMG, lol) you BULLSHIT ARTIST TOTAL LOSER - truer words were NEVER spoken about you, loser).
You "VOLUNTEER"? LOL - doing what?? Barbara Hudson's SUCK SERVICE for OLD HOMOS @ the VA Hospital?? LMAO - probably.
(Some "Essential Service', lmao).
* I hope this shithole waste of a site closes off ANON POSTS - why? Barely ANYONE comes here as is, do that, this place will go to ZERO & have to go away (& thus, so will you freak, lol)
Most of all - you & your sockpuppet "friends" (just you most likely using multiple accounts) HAVE TO IMPERSONATE ME (since I didn't write the post you replied to)?
It proves EVERYTHING that needs proving here - in addition to your MULTIPLE SELF-DEFEATS vs. me in the link above you CAN'T STAND since you were SO STUPID blundering mistake after mistake vs. me in its points...
APK
P.S.=> Lastly: FREAK, I've done MORE THAN YOU EVER HAVE (anyone can see the link I posted above as to that much & they'll see results I produced that did well vs. t hreats online + TONS MORE that YES, you ARE AWARE OF in publications as well as being paid well for code I wrote that SELLS TO THIS VERY DAY from a certified Microsoft partner STUPID fucking DO-NOTHING INCAPABLE LOSER you TRULY are (& we all know it - prove otherwise - YOU CAN'T since you haven't EVER DONE SHIT of ANY worth whatsoever fucker). I do well in all things - whereas YOU do nothing but "CHATTER ONLINE" like the FUCKING FOOL FREAK TRANNY LOSER you are TWISTO - everyone KNOWS what YOU are, lol & it is DISGUSTING you RIDICULOUS ABOMINATION)... apk
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:23PM
Still sore @ me kicking yer ass publicly tranny freak https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=33430&page=1&cid=889582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] ? Yes, OBVIOUSLY (lol).
You did that all to yourself since you are incompetent & STUPID & a TWISTED ABOMINATION sick in the head TRANNY weirdo LOSER (but you sure TRY to "play smart" but vs. me you FELL FLAT ON YOUR FACE publicly, lol - no denying it loser).
You also threw a raged shitfit there, calling for the PUNK SITE OWNER HERE (help me mommy, lmao) to burn your account in due to your BLUNDERING shame publicly vs. me you can't hide, hehehe!
THEN YOU IMPERSONATED ME making it look like I APOLOGIZED TO YOU https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=35327&page=1&cid=937346#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] you fucking DECEITFUL disgusting LYING TRANNY weirdo LOSER?
Bullshit I did!
Why WOULD I after LIES about me you spew (just a few below prove it you FUCK) & after I BLEW YOUR DUMB ASS AWAY in the link above?
Hahahahaha - OH, the PUBLIC HUMILIATION for you, lol!
Doubtless due to ALL THE DRUGS YOU ARE ON (& YES, I KNOW that you are) & you SHOULD have had your account deleted.
You need to be DELETED from this LIFE you sick in the head FREAK "TrAnStEsTiCuLaR MONSTROSITY".
Barbara Hudson LIKES TO TELL LIES ABOUT ME (projecting "its" OWN issues in being a SAW OFF ITS OWN COCK & BALLS useless loser "self DISABLED" TRANNY FREAK, lol - that's no disability, it's INSANITY clearly!)
You lie saying I don't work OR that I haven't in "25 yrs" etc.?
WRONG!
I've said it MANY TIMES to YOU directly, LYING FUCK YOU ARE, that I still contract idiot but I don't HAVE to as I run my own show in other business!
FACT: Still - I haven't HAD to work for ANYONE but myself really since 2007 freak.
I've told you before I RUN MY OWN BUSINESS & actually have WORTH + real estate holdings galore!
(That's MY real worth, & you barbara TOM hudson don't have SHIT, you USELESS LEECH WELFARE SUCKING "DISABLED" total BULLSHIT ARTIST twisted TRANZOID loser (by SAWING OFF YOUR COCK & BALLS since you are an INSANE whacko that did that to yourself too, OMG, lol) - truer words were NEVER spoken about you, loser).
You "VOLUNTEER"? LOL - doing what??
Barbara Hudson's SUCK SERVICE for OLD HOMOS @ the VA Hospital??
LMAO - probably.
(Some "Essential Service", lmao).
* I hope this shithole waste of a site closes off ANON POSTS - why? Barely ANYONE comes here as is, do that, this place will go to ZERO & have to go away (& thus, so will you freak, lol)
Most of all - you & your sockpuppet "friends" (just you most likely using multiple accounts) ARE REDUCED TO IMPERSONATING ME since you can't manage to prove me wrong in that TOPMOST LINK to your UTTER PUBLIC HUMILIATION vs. myself, in IMPERSONATIONS of ME like e.g. https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=37178&page=1&cid=985582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] (since I didn't write the post you replied to)!
It proves EVERYTHING that needs proving here along w/ my FACTUAL STATEMENTS here too about you, scumbag TRANSTESTICLE FREAK!
All in addition to your MULTIPLE SELF-DEFEATS vs. me in the TOPMOST LINK above you CAN'T STAND since you were SO STUPID blundering mistake after mistake vs. me in its points...
APK
P.S.=> Lastly: FREAK, I've done MORE THAN YOU EVER HAVE or EVER WILL you USELESS no skills BULLSHIT ARTIST LAZY STUPID piece of TWISTO TRANNY CRAP FREAK ABOMINATION & you, + most likely MOST here, KNOW already!
Anyone can see the link I posted above as to that much & they'll see results I produced that did well vs. threats online w/ @ LEAST 1/4 MILLION USERS OF MY WORK TO DATE
+ TONS MORE that YES, you ARE AWARE OF in publications in computing I have to MY NAME!
(You don't & NEVER will loser)
That's all in addition to my being paid well for code I wrote that SELLS TO THIS VERY DAY from a certified Microsoft partner that placed as a FINALIST @ Microsoft TechEd 2000-2002 in its HARDEST CATEGORY SQLServer Performance Enhancement 2 yrs. in a ROW you DO-NOTHING INCAPABLE imcompetent FAILURE LOSER you TRULY are!
So, & I've asked this of you before (to SHAME your LAZY incompetent ass): YOU'VE DONE MORE/BETTER? Hell no!
(& a LOSER you KNOW you ARE never can or will, freak (& we all know it - prove otherwise - YOU CAN'T since you haven't EVER DONE SHIT of ANY worth whatsoever you USELESS mentally TWISTED trantesticular MONSTROSITY abberration abomination). I do well in all things - whereas YOU do nothing but "CHATTER ONLINE" like the FUCKING FOOL FREAK TRANNY LOSER you are TWISTO - everyone KNOWS what YOU are, lol & it is DISGUSTING you RIDICULOUS ABOMINATION))... apk
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:21AM (1 child)
Whoa! What did I miss that would cause that much drama?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:34AM
The multiple personality APK/B"T"H is having an argument with itself.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:30AM
You must be "The Music", because https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRSYWrJVGeo [youtube.com]
(Score: 4, Funny) by DannyB on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:09PM
You should seriously consider running for president of the untied states.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:38PM (2 children)
Who is apk?
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by J053 on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:45PM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:56PM
Ahh..., so they're new here, which makes sense now. Here's hoping, they decide they can troll elsewhere . . .
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @01:38AM
What happened barbara hudson? Did you shoot your mouth off only to have it slammed shut by APK https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=33430&page=1&cid=889582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] ? Yes. Go AWAY "TraNsTesTiCuLaR MONSTROSITY". Did you really think apk apologized to you (no you posted that yourself by anonymous impersonating him) https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?cid=937346&sid=35327 [soylentnews.org] ? No but you try to deceive others with it that he did. You only fool yourself just like you do in your delusion you are a real woman. You're not. You're a clearly insane male dosed on estrogen to give you bitch tits, nothing more.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @02:43AM (1 child)
Are non-unanimous acquittals allowed? That wasn't entirely clear.
Our justice system should require unanimous votes to convict in criminal trials. The standard is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If a juror doesn't believe the defendant is guilty, there's reasonable doubt.
There's no such reason to require unanimous acquittals. Allowing a vote of 10-2 or 9-3 to acquit in a criminal trial wouldn't be a bad idea. Modern juries are usually a joke. But there's a reason the founding fathers insisted on the right for a jury trial in criminal trials. Jury trials were used in medieval England as a check against overly harsh laws. Juries not only ensured there was fairness in deciding the verdict but also could refuse to sentence criminals if the laws were unjust or carried excessive punishments. Juries still have the power to decide both facts and law, though judges rarely mention the latter power. It would be easier to nullify unjust laws if unanimous acquittals weren't required. We have plenty of laws with very harsh sentences. Prisons are generally overcrowded and there's a compelling argument that conditions in many prisons constitute cruel and unusual punishment.
Juries should always be informed of their power to decide facts and law, though a Supreme Court ruling removed the obligation to inform juries of the latter power. Allowing acquittals to be non-unanimous would also give juries more power. The jury isn't there to serve the interests of the state. It's a check on the state's power. Giving juries greater ability to acquit would allow them to better check the state's power.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday April 24 2020, @01:04AM
It's sometimes worse than just not being informed. The last time I was in voir dire, we were asked to swear an oath to judge only the facts and not the law itself. When I indicated that I could not conscionably swear to that, I was dismissed.
People who distribute flyers to prospective jurors informing them of their right to nullify tend to find themselves with ill-fitting charges lodged against them.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by wisnoskij on Wednesday April 22 2020, @04:33AM (6 children)
None of these words ment unanimous at any point current or historic. While I will not argue with them that it might of been common, it might of been the law, at the time for a trial by jury to require a unanimous decision, a lot of different things were common back then.
You might as well say that the constitution disallows DNA evidence, that jurors must only use outhouses, and the judges must start wearing wigs again or it is not a proper 1800s trial by jury and is unconstitutional. The constitution and the surrounding documents means what it says, it was not drawn up by a bunch of illiterate idiots. The PDF argues that the drafters that 1 more word was just way too long winded, that they felt that it was no obvious that jury trials must be unanimous that they intentionally cut out specifying it. What is even worse is that this idiot is using the the fact that laws hundreds of years ago stated that a jury trial must be unanimous as evidence that the writers of this amendment would obviously consider that mentioning this unanimity was redundant.
It is self evident that this amendment was intentionally written like this to allow local and state governing bodies to use whatever method suited them best, as long as "the people" got their say in criminal justice.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by EEMac on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:14PM
Can I just toss out - in any sizeable group of people, there's almost always one person who just plain won't convict?
Stated reasons include:
* The evidence wasn't perfect like on TV shows
* I don't believe anything police say, ever
* That lawyer seemed too slick
* The defendant looks too nice to do something like that
* Well, maybe they did it, but everyone deserves a second chance
* Nobody should be punished for crime - we need to think of ways to help them
My husband has been on juries and heard stuff like this. Jurors who are interviewed later say things like this. If one of these people is on the jury, there's just no way to get a unanimous conviction.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:49PM (1 child)
The Constitution does not explicitly state that criminal convictions must be unanimous. However, the Supreme Court has interpreted the due process clause to require that criminal convictions apply the standard of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. An early discussion of this is in Miles v. United States (1880) [cornell.edu]. The In re Winship (1970) [cornell.edu] ruling explicitly states that the due process clauses of the fifth and fourteenth amendments require that criminal convictions satisfy the standard of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This is a fundamental principle of our legal system.
The sixth amendment guarantees the right to trial by jury in all criminal trials. Because of the fourteenth amendment, this right has been incorporated and applies in criminal trials by the states. Due process is explicitly required by the fourteenth amendment. This means that all criminal trails by the states must also adhere to the standard of reasonable doubt to convict.
Patton v. United States (1930) [cornell.edu] discusses the common law basis for jury trials, including the size of the jury and the requirement of unanimity for criminal convictions. While this is not the original basis for requiring a unanimous verdict for criminal convictions, it references prior cases that had already established this standard.
The common law argument is compelling, but the standard of requiring guilt beyond a reasonable doubt also should require unanimity. If a single juror finds that there is sufficient doubt so as to refuse to convict, then that should mean there is reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty.
(Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Wednesday April 22 2020, @09:55PM
No, there is very little statistical difference between 85% of the jury being fairly certain and 100% of the jury being fairly certain. I could see an argument that only requiring 50% or 51% for a conviction runs afoul of the "beyond a reasonable doubt" clause but requiring over 80% is the same as requiring 100% within reasonable error bounds. But also I was not commenting on these amendments, I focused specifically on their claims that the Sixth Amendment guaranteed unanimous juries. Which I think we both agree is ridiculous and obviously false?
I am not talking about common law, I am talking about the constitution and on what the drafters meant by what they wrote in it. But on the topic, does the constitution require all states to follow the same common law?
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday April 24 2020, @01:13AM (2 children)
There is a HUGE difference between reading things in that were never written and interpreting things that were written as they were understood at the time of writing. At the time of writing for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, a jury was understood by the writers to be twelve people and requiring a unanimous decision.
(Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Friday April 24 2020, @01:31AM (1 child)
No. There is no evidence, and much to the contrary, that people in the 17 hundreds did not find a non unanimous jury as inconceivable. For one the unanimous rule is only applied to criminal cases, civil jury trials are very commonly majority verdict only all over America, and the world.
Secondly, we have a lot of the rejected drafts and documents surrounding the amendments, we know they considered putting unanimous rule in, and rejected the idea. So we literally know that the drafters of the sixth amendment were aware that unanimous was not a redundant word.
Secondly, juries come in all sizes and they always have. It does not matter what year, what state, what country you look in, you find juries of many different sizes.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday April 24 2020, @02:29AM
We know that they were familiar with the common law and supported it. We also know that it matches well with the expressed sentiment that it's better for 10 guilty men to go free than to convict one innocent. It also fits well with beyond reasonable doubt a juror voting not-guilty clearly has a doubt and since the jury cannot be cross examined, we must assume the doubt to be reasonable (else we invalidate any finding of any jury)
.
(Score: 2) by OrugTor on Wednesday April 22 2020, @04:27PM (2 children)
Gorsuch and Kavanaugh were placed on the court for one reason. They are preparing the way by overturning precedent. Roe vs Wade is next. Indeed, Kavanaugh referenced Roe vs Wade in his opinion.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:27PM
What are you talking about? During Kavanaugh's confirmation hearing he said how much respect he has for judicial precedent.
That, and he didn't drink.
Except BEER. BEER. What don't you drink BEER??
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:30PM
This being the same court that threw out decades of precedence that states shall not tax out of state imports.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @07:20PM
I'm not sure people fully recognize this ruling, or courts in general. In order to be found "Not Guilty," you also need a unanimous ruling from the jury. That was a big surprise for me as well.
Personally, I'm not a fan of that, going back to the "better 10 guilty walk free than 1 innocent be imprisoned" idea. (Admittedly I've been lucky to not be a victim of a major crime.) Personally I'd prefer a system where a "Guilty" verdict was unanimous, or maybe 1 dissent, while being found "Not Guilty" was more like 2/3. That's just me.
The key take away, though, is that it's also very hard to be found "Not Guilty" in the American legal system. It's easy to get one person who says "he just looks guilty," and who will lie about racism or whatever during jury selection Voir Dire.