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SoylentNews is people

posted by NCommander on Wednesday October 01 2014, @04:00PM   Printer-friendly
from the a-response-from-the-director-of-project-freelancer dept.

After laying out my longer-term plans for the site two weeks ago, I've sat down, read the feedback, and started looking at writing a response. Under normal circumstances, I generally reply to comments as they're posted, but in this case, a more public and general dialog appears to be necessary. If you haven't read the previous post, I recommend doing so now.

Now, with that introduction out of the way... I have unfortunately been unavailable to write a more detailed response, due to real life issues. So please excuse my only responding to two of the major points brought up. I do wish to have a follow-up to address the remainder, but I can not make a promise as to when that may be.

UI issues

I did a really bad job explaining what I meant here, given this by far was the most commented on item! I'm not planning to beta, or Web 2.0 SoylentNews; what I want to do is clean up the interface, as well as add some dynamic aspects for those who use JavaScript, while, and I stress this, without compromising the functionality of the site as it stands now for the non-JS crowd.

For example, one thing is having the ability to perform an in-line reply; if you've got JavaScript enabled, it should simply create a reply box directly below the comment you're responding to without having to load an entire new page. For non-JS users, it should simply go to the current reply form we're all familiar with. This would help improve usability for the JS using majority while keeping us safely away from the evils of beta. Another example is re-doing the entirety of the preferences panel. As of right now, individual users can customize their site experience quite heavily, but said options are scattered across multiple pages, and are frequently buried in places one might not expect. For instance, if you wanted "Funny" comments to show higher than others, how many folks can really find that part of the UI without difficulty?

What I want to do here is a massive pipe-cleaning of our interface so that the site is easy-to-use, while not adding flashy or unnecessary chrome. While we might someday give the site a larger face-lift, it will be done with the feedback of the community, and with plenty of notice (and with every effort to preserve the old interface made for those who simply do not wish to change). For the immediate future though, everyone should expect to see the slow, but steady improvements we've been making since day 1.

Quality of Discussion

A large part of the comments focused on the issues with the moderation system. For those of you here since April, you might remember a discussion on reworking the mod system and know this has been something of a long-term goal that we simply haven't gotten to. One major problem is doing it is something of an all-or-nothing, and we can't have individual users opt-in/opt-out of a new system. That being said, this is something we do need to do relatively soon; we (the staff) have already seen issues with abusive moderation, and have fired off warning emails. As of right now, we haven't banned anyone from moderation, mostly on account we can't (the old moderation ban system was tied into metamod, which remains hosed), and that it also opens a real slippery slope.

Many folks complained that on the other site quite a few people reported that they were apparently blacklisted from moderation. Furthermore, a lot of the time, what is or isn't acceptable can be an extremely relative thing. The fact is, the moment the staff intervene on anything that isn't flat-out abuse, we create a precedent that is better left avoided. The correct method here is to tie the entire system to metamod (M2), and that as long as a user does a semi-decent job of moderation (i.e., 75-80% of mods get ACKed), they keep getting mod points, while those who moderate poorly or abuse the system don't.

The downside of this system though is that M2 is basically work with very little reward, at least as it is currently implemented. My current thoughts here involve reworking karma, as well as perhaps allowing badges and ranking, to hopefully provide benefits for some of the more tedious aspects of peer review.

 
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  • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday October 01 2014, @08:09PM

    by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Wednesday October 01 2014, @08:09PM (#100629) Homepage Journal

    How about lets not? I don't go to a story about astronomy to read a bunch of comments about your grandma's surgery, your HOSTS file or what you had for breakfast. That's what 4chan, twitter, and reddit are for and why I stay away from them. If you have something offtopic to say, either go there or use your S/N journal.

    --
    mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   2  
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 01 2014, @10:32PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 01 2014, @10:32PM (#100708)

    It takes less effort to just ignore a comment that you don't like than it takes to moderate it.

    • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Wednesday October 01 2014, @11:13PM

      by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday October 01 2014, @11:13PM (#100742) Journal

      It takes even less effort to not see it at all because people we generally trust with mod points, vote it into oblivion.

      Mod points aren't ONLY for modding up -- they are to mark crap as such so others don't have to be bothered. Given the visibility of all the offtopic Github troll threads recently, I would definitely say that people aren't downmodding enough. It probably would be a good idea to create two kinds of mod points: + and -. You might get 8 + mods and 2 - mods. You could only use + mods to mod up, and - mods to mod down.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 01 2014, @11:16PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 01 2014, @11:16PM (#100743)

        But we obviously can't trust the people who have mod points. That's why so much abuse takes place. That's why a metamoderation system is apparently needed. We couldn't need such things if we actually could trust the moderators. But experience shows that they can almost never be trusted, in practice.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Wednesday October 01 2014, @11:26PM

          by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday October 01 2014, @11:26PM (#100751) Journal

          Why can't we trust them? Here or on /. -- and I've been around for years and years if you count both systems, I'd say that I see mods that shock me way less than 1% of the time. Usually, someone posts underneath about the moderation abuse and it gets solved. I just don't see the mod abuse problem people keep talking about. Unless of course you're talking about the offtopic crap -- that stuff seems way under-downmodded to me. The hesitancy to downmod is the only real problem I see with the mod system.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 02 2014, @12:17AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 02 2014, @12:17AM (#100767)

            Why can't we trust them?

            They're not moderating in accordance with my bias. Duh.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 02 2014, @12:21PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 02 2014, @12:21PM (#100910)

            Unless you always, without exception, browse both sites at -1 all of the time, I don't think you're qualified to provide analysis.

            I do always browse at -1, and the abuse is much more rampant that what you're saying.

            Even just one abusive or incorrect modding, either up or down, is unacceptable.

            • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday October 02 2014, @03:33PM

              by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday October 02 2014, @03:33PM (#100992) Journal

              Yes -- I do actually browse at -1 all the time. Here and there.