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from the better-living-through-solopsism dept.
Papas Fritas writes:
Michael Schulson writes that if you want to write about spiritually-motivated pseudoscience in America, you can drive hundreds of miles to the Creation Museum in Kentucky but that America's greatest shrine to pseudoscience, the Whole Foods Market, is only a 15-minute trip away from most American urbanites. For example the homeopathy section at Whole Foods has plenty of Latin words and mathematical terms, but many of its remedies are so diluted that, statistically speaking, they may not contain a single molecule of the substance they purport to deliver.
"You can buy chocolate with "a meld of rich goji berries and ashwagandha root to strengthen your immune system," and bottles of ChlorOxygen chlorophyll concentrate, which "builds better blood." There's cereal with the kind of ingredients that are "made in a kitchen-not in a lab," and tea designed to heal the human heart," writes Schulson. "Nearby are eight full shelves of probiotics-live bacteria intended to improve general health. I invited a biologist friend who studies human gut bacteria to come take a look with me. She read the healing claims printed on a handful of bottles and frowned. "This is bullshit," she said, and went off to buy some vegetables."
According to Schulson the total lack of outrage over Whole Foods' existence, and by the total saturation of outrage over the Creation Museum, makes it clear that strict scientific accuracy in the public sphere isn't quite as important to many of us as we might believe. "The moral is not that we should all boycott Whole Foods. It's that whenever we talk about science and society, it helps to keep two rather humbling premises in mind: very few of us are anywhere near rational. And pretty much all of us are hypocrites."
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Thursday March 13 2014, @03:47AM
I'm amazed that in civilized countries 'homoeopathic' remedies are legal. Shouldn't you need to have real science or at least a double-blind study or two before you can make *any* claims? Normally I'm not against extracting money from the gullible, but once public health money comes into the equation I get more interested.
(Score: 1) by ragequit on Thursday March 13 2014, @04:07AM
Nah, they just put a fine print disclaimer like "These claims have not been evaluated by the FDA" on the back somewhere.
See here: http://www.drvita.com/product/navitas-naturals-sun -dried-goji-berries-16-oz/12840 [drvita.com]
scroll down a bit
The above views are fabricated for your reading pleasure.
(Score: 1) by RoyWard on Thursday March 13 2014, @04:15AM
Is public health money involved in homeopathy? I'd like to see a citation for that.
(Score: 3, Informative) by lx on Thursday March 13 2014, @09:53AM
It depends on where you live. In Britain homeopatic therapy is still covered by the NHS. The climate is changing though. [theguardian.com]
(Score: 1) by naff89 on Thursday March 13 2014, @04:31AM
You do, and all claims are evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. If they're not, they require a big label that says "Not Evaluated by the FDA" and "Not intended to treat or diagnose [anything]".
If you still think it works despite those warnings, well, there's only so much we can do to help you.
(Score: 1) by Aighearach on Thursday March 13 2014, @04:48AM
You might even just like eating it. I've heard lots of people say they take homeopathic remedies because they might work, are almost certainly safe.
And I agree. The placebo effect is much stronger than the medicinal effect of most "proven" medicines.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by girlwhowaspluggedout on Thursday March 13 2014, @06:39AM
IANAD, but AFAIK, that is indeed how drug testing works.
Soylent is the best disinfectant.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 13 2014, @11:22AM
That's not entirely true. From the FDA:
Furthermore
So, "real" drugs have to tested for safety and efficacy; neutraceuticals have to be labeled in such a way as to make clear that they are not drugs, but only "nutritional supplements" or other such language; but "homeopathic" remedies, as long as they're recognized in the pharmacopea and contain no active allopathic agent, are allowed to be called drugs.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by deego on Thursday March 13 2014, @06:27AM
>> I'm amazed that in civilized countries 'homoeopathic' remedies are legal. Shouldn't you need to have real science or at least a double-blind study or two before you can make *any* claims? Normally I'm not against extracting money from the gullible, but once public health money comes into the equation I get more interested.
I am amazed that in civilized countries, do-gooders still try to dictate what others can and cannot do with their own bodies.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by pe1rxq on Thursday March 13 2014, @10:32AM
I don't want to prevent anyone from gulping down homeopathic shit...
I do want to protect them from doing it because they were being lied to.
In a civilized country lying about its effects should be illegal.
You want to sell water? Fine, just don't claim it is magical because you diluted and shaked something.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday March 13 2014, @01:57PM
If you go that route, then you have to ban religions too, because there's no way to prove that it's real. That's not going to go over very well, since every "civilized country" not only has a large contingent of religious citizens, they all purport to support freedom of religion (for the most part; some have banned obvious scams like Scientology).
(Score: 2) by metamonkey on Thursday March 13 2014, @02:11PM
No, religions would just need appropriate warning labels. "Warning: Adherence to this faith may or may not result in eternal salvation." Well, we'd need those labels for every religion except mine, of course.
Okay 3, 2, 1, let's jam.
(Score: 1) by SleazyRidr on Thursday March 13 2014, @02:44PM
I'll bear that in mind next time I pick up a bottle of Islam from Whole Foods.
(Score: 2) by bucc5062 on Thursday March 13 2014, @02:37PM
Oh please, your comment is insightful?
In the civilized country of the US of A companies lie *all the time* and seem to do it legally so please don't try to compare our wondrous first world morality to some third world and say it is better.
Homeopathy is not shit, it is respected by the medical community, it is regulated by the FDA, and it has shown to be a viable alternative to manufactured chemicals that at times can do more harm to the body the some natural ingredient. Have you heard of Willow Bark. A natural pain reliever that is as effective, though slower in action then aspirin and less harmful to the stomach.
As to your water example, A couple of years ago some company told the US market that they infused their water with extra oxygen to help make you feel better. A bold face lie that people bought in the millions; in a civilized country non the less. Now that is shit from a male cow.
The more things change, the more they look the same
(Score: 1) by pe1rxq on Thursday March 13 2014, @02:47PM
Homeopathy is NOT respected by the medical community. Just stop spreading nonsense.
It is NOT a viable alternative to anything.
And yes, I have heard of willow bark, I do know a little bit about the history of aspirin and it has NOTHING to do with homeopathy.
And the guys selling 'oxygen' water are just as guilty as the homeopaths and both should be made accountable. All quackery should be threated equal.
(Score: 2) by bucc5062 on Thursday March 13 2014, @03:33PM
So I will walk a line here. I had been confused between what I understood to be homeopathy and what it is defined as by most articles (and their own text). I was defending the use of natural elements in caring for medical issues, not homeopathy its self. So in that regard I was incorrect in my thoughts.
I still find your statement about "civilized countries" to be disingenuous and it did not enhance your viewpoint. Of course all quackery should have the light of day put upon it, but you made a position like civilized countries don't have quacks (that is how it read). I'm not moderating, but I did not see you point as insightful mainly because of that one statement. Since they all lie, there is no real "civilized" country on this planet. Only those that try to lie less in the interest of their population. Currently my country is looking less and less civilized then some others so homeopathy seems to fit in right along with "we're not spying on you" or "trust your money with us".
The more things change, the more they look the same
(Score: 2) by pe1rxq on Thursday March 13 2014, @04:43PM
Ah, that makes sense. Although it doesn't suprise me much, it is very easy to get confused what exactly the quackers are peddling, and that is the way they like it.
I have no problems with using 'natural elements', as long as it is evidence based.
There is a lot of evidence for e.g. willow bark. So much evidence that it led to the development of aspirin.
For both there is a lot of evidence and with this evidence you can choose which one works best in your current situation.
If your stomach is sensitive use one, do you need something really potent and pure, use the other.
And my personal definition of a civilized country indeed is a bit of an utopia...
(Score: 1) by SleazyRidr on Thursday March 13 2014, @02:46PM
I don't want to dictate what people can put into their own bodies. I do want to dictate what you can sell someone as "medicine" and more importantly what the health system spends its money on. I like the fact that some of my money is going to help people that need it. I don't like the fact that some of it is enriching these scammers.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Jiro on Thursday March 13 2014, @07:30AM
Actually, it's an intentional loophole. The law that gave the FDA much of its power was sponsored by a homeopath [wikipedia.org] thus letting homeopathic substances be exempt from normal FDA rules.
(Score: 1) by akinliat on Thursday March 13 2014, @03:04PM
As long as the claims are sufficiently vague, and there is no demonstrable harm being caused, it's highly unlikely that we'd see any sort of legal or regulatory action.
As someone pointed out below, homeopathic remedies have been approved as safe since the thirties in the US (around the same time that marijuana was criminalized because of "reefer madness"). Considering that they're almost entirely water, with maybe one or two molecules of the original substance, it's unlikely they can do any harm, other than raising false hopes.
That's not something that I imagine will be criminalized anytime soon.