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Charleston, SC

posted by takyon on Saturday June 20 2015, @11:30PM   Printer-friendly

An Anonymous Coward writes:

"At some point as a country, we have to reckon with what happens. It's not enough to express sympathy. You don't see this kind of murder, on this scale, with this kind of frequency in other advanced countries on earth." - President Obama.

Discuss.

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  • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday June 22 2015, @01:43AM

    by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2015, @01:43AM (#199247)
    What's your metric?
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  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday June 22 2015, @01:47AM

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2015, @01:47AM (#199248) Journal
    Odds that a moron harms me with the tools in question.

    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday June 22 2015, @02:16AM

      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2015, @02:16AM (#199255)
      The difference between those two isn't anywhere near 100, it's more like 3.
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      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday June 22 2015, @03:13PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2015, @03:13PM (#199439) Journal

        The difference between those two isn't anywhere near 100, it's more like 3.

        Let us keep in mind that accidental gun deaths [washingtonpost.com] were around 600 in 2014. Meanwhile the number of deaths due to automobile accidents [wikipedia.org] were over 32,000 in the previous year. I drive a fair amount and I don't hang out with morons with guns. So there's the two or more orders of magnitude difference. Frankly, I think it's a lot more than two orders of magnitude hence my fear of morons with screwdrivers.

        • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday June 22 2015, @03:30PM

          by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2015, @03:30PM (#199443)
          I was going by the ~10,000 gun deaths the US racks up every year, which is not limited to accidental gun deaths. I don't believe that that the 'arm everyone' approach would only lead to an increase of accidental deaths.
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          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday June 22 2015, @04:02PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2015, @04:02PM (#199463) Journal

            I was going by the ~10,000 gun deaths the US racks up every year, which is not limited to accidental gun deaths.

            I wasn't because most of those deaths are suicides or shootings of various categories of people that I don't belong to (such as gang members or people who live in high crime areas).

            • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday June 22 2015, @04:53PM

              by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2015, @04:53PM (#199497)
              We were talking in a more general sense than that. Either way, though, the original suggestion that started this conversation would mean more exposure to danger for you. Even if the ratio between one set of risks and another is minuscule, it's still higher. It's also preventable, as demonstrated in other countries.
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              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday June 22 2015, @06:02PM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2015, @06:02PM (#199526) Journal
                But my point is that I can evaluate these risks and they just aren't that bad for me (remember this part of the thread was about what I should fear). Now, society might be a bit different. But even then, I just don't see that big a risk from firearms. IIRC, they already are more numerous than people in the US without that much in the way of deaths. IMHO, if you really want to lower the deaths from firearms, then end the War on Drugs via drug legalization. For example, that's responsible for the cartel wars in Mexico as well as a considerable portion of the firearm-related homicides in the US.

                • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday June 22 2015, @06:31PM

                  by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2015, @06:31PM (#199536)
                  Do you believe there are too many morons behind the wheel?
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                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday June 22 2015, @11:27PM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2015, @11:27PM (#199640) Journal

                    Do you believe there are too many morons behind the wheel?

                    Of course, I do. It's the price of a free society though.

                    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday June 23 2015, @05:00AM

                      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 23 2015, @05:00AM (#199744)
                      Then why are you okay with more morons with guns?
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                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 23 2015, @03:29PM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 23 2015, @03:29PM (#199927) Journal

                        Then why are you okay with more morons with guns?

                        Because it's not a significant increase in harm or risk and as a result I get a freer society.

                        • (Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday June 23 2015, @04:56PM

                          by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 23 2015, @04:56PM (#199977)
                          Wouldn't lowering the age that people can get driver licenses do the same thing?
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                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 23 2015, @11:45PM

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 23 2015, @11:45PM (#200150) Journal

                            Wouldn't lowering the age that people can get driver licenses do the same thing?

                            I don't know. Would it?

                            • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday June 24 2015, @12:11AM

                              by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 24 2015, @12:11AM (#200160)
                              More freedom and minimal risk, right?
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                              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 24 2015, @08:36PM

                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 24 2015, @08:36PM (#200574) Journal
                                Maybe. You start running into the issue of whether they can actually operate a vehicle safely. I think we could push the age down a bit perhaps to around 10 (under adult supervision), but sooner or later you'll run into problems with physical size and mental maturity. For example, if a 40 year old had the mental maturity of a 2 year old, we would and do consider them severely mentally disabled. There's already reasonable grounds for withholding a driver's license for certain disabilities and I would consider extreme youth just another disability though one that a person could grow out of.

                                • (Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday June 25 2015, @06:26AM

                                  by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 25 2015, @06:26AM (#200821)
                                  So you're saying there's a standard to reach if you're going to allow one to operate a vehicle. Would that be for fear of harm to others?
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