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posted by
n1
on Wednesday October 21 2015, @09:08PM
from the we-put-a-man-on-the-moon,-but-we-wont-do-that dept.
from the we-put-a-man-on-the-moon,-but-we-wont-do-that dept.
Microsoft's telemetry features in Windows 10 are a privacy advocate's nightmare. Now that Microsoft is trying to back port these "features" into existing versions of Windows, it seems like many of us have no future upgrade path. Sure there is Linux, but I have some older Windows software that I still want to use. ReactOS is still out there, but does not look like there have been any updates in a while.
Does the Soylent community believe it is possible to get this project going full steam to producing a useable alternative for existing Windows users?
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Ask Soylent: Can We Turn ReactOS into a Viable Alternative to Windows 10?
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For recreational use only.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 21 2015, @09:29PM
What software? When I made the switch to Linux 6 years ago I dreaded losing MS Money, but found alternatives for that and anything else I needed in the repos. ReactOS is like beating a dead horse, just make the switch and be happy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 21 2015, @09:41PM
What is your MS Money alternative? (genuinely interested in the answer, not trolling here)
(Score: 1) by Francis on Wednesday October 21 2015, @10:17PM
AFAIK MS Money doesn't exist at all anymore. That was completely canceled a few years back.
I've personally used Moneydance, but I've found the way it does the accounting to be really annoying. I haven't used it in a few years, but it failed miserably at handling bank transfers. It would insist on duplicating the transaction so that it could remove money and put it on the right day, so you'd either have the money being in the wrong place at the wrong time or you'd have double the amount being transered.
But, it's a nice program if you don't mind having to manually adjust things like that. Hopefully they've fixed that in the mean time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 21 2015, @11:04PM
in b4 gnucash
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 21 2015, @11:19PM
I replaced MS Money 99 with kmymoney. It works fine for what I needed it for, which is checking/savings ledger. I back up the database to a flashdrive.
(Score: 5, Informative) by LoRdTAW on Wednesday October 21 2015, @10:29PM
What software?
How about CAD packages, specialized industrial software, ERP, custom application etc.
Here is my example of Windows only software that I need for my job:
PLC programming software for Automationdirect PLC's. Directsoft 5, Click and Productivity3000 controllers all have Windows only software. They don't work under Wine. The only alternative is running Windows in a VM. Using VirtualBox I have had issues with USB-RS232 adapters working through a VM. I get timeouts and missing coms. I haven't tried VMware but why waste the money. Native Windows is my only safe bet in that area.
I love Linux just as much as the next Geek but there are big time caveats for people looking to 100% dump Windows. That is why I have a Linux box and Windows box at home.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 21 2015, @11:24PM
Did you install the VirtualBox Extension Pack to get USB support?
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 21 2015, @11:50PM
USB to RS232 adapters are notoriously problematic. It has been a while since I looked into it, but IIRC it has to do with interrupt timing/processing - like they rely on the driver to poll for data rather than send an interrupt to the host when new data arrives. I'm sure running in a VM exacerbates that. 99% of them are unreliable for anything complicated, the remaining 1% are hard to find, they generally don't advertise as being superior. As a general rule, if you need reliable RS232 you have to go with a dedicated serial port.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday October 22 2015, @01:42AM
Not to mention that if you're coding applications that work with serial, you may even have to change your code in specific ways to accommodate USB-serial adapters.
And another note, anybody who thinks that RS-232 is an ancient and obsolete technology has never held any real technical or industrial job. RS-232 is still found everyfuckingwhere in industry.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday October 22 2015, @04:44AM
Try this: http://cnc-specialty-store.com/rs232-cables/rs232-usb-to-serial-port-converter-adapter-for-cnc-fully-tested [cnc-specialty-store.com]
There's a fair demand for it for CNC machines. No idea about using it from a VM though.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Thursday October 22 2015, @12:04PM
Yes. USB passthrough won't work without the extensions.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Thursday October 22 2015, @12:26AM
Last I heard, a lot of that expensive specialized industrial software doesn't work under Windows 10, but these machines, when connected to the internet, update to Windows 10 anyway, breaking the industrial software on 6-figure machines. So basically you don't have a choice: you have to use some old version of Windows and that's it, and you have to keep your machine off the network.
The only solution to this is to simply not buy this garbage. If a vendor is so stupid they use Windows for a 6-figure industrial machine, find another vendor that isn't so stupid. Windows simply does not give you the control that Linux does; even the industrial equipment vendor has no control over the OS they're basing their product on.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Thursday October 22 2015, @01:28AM
Someone modded you troll. Apparently, they don't work with industrial equpiment. Branson welders discovered the truth of what you're saying. They stopped making Windows controlled welders, and switched off to Linux. None of our capital investment level equipment has ever used Windows. None of our small peripheral equipment has ever used Windows. Only Branson has ever used Windows, and they saw the light. (Their welders fill a middle ground, costing only a small fraction of our plastic injection machines, but substantially more than small punch presses and other peripherals.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 22 2015, @10:27AM
Ah, so Microsoft is actually doing something to secure those industry applications! ;-)
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Thursday October 22 2015, @11:58AM
My bet is they had a lot of VB5/6 code. Recent security changes like don't foolishly write to the program files directory, UAC, and graphical changes are what cripples them. Though, some simple tweaks can fix most or all of those problems. Though, drivers and real hardware like PCI cards are your achilles heel. I have CNC systems that will not run on any Windows after XP. They used a realtime subsystem from Ardence that was tied to 2k/XP architecture. So those stay XP or 2k and are isolated from the network.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by LoRdTAW on Thursday October 22 2015, @01:18PM
Go look up Beckhoff automation. They make Windows PC based automation systems for plants and machinery that can cost millions. Scary stuff.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Gravis on Thursday October 22 2015, @03:05AM
PLC programming software for Automationdirect PLC's. Directsoft 5, Click and Productivity3000 controllers all have Windows only software.
actually, there has been plenty of development to get PLC dev on Linux. check out MatPLC. you may not be able to get your specific hardware to work on Linux but that doesn't mean you can't sell it and get something that does. if you scoff at the idea of having to pay to get hardware that works with Linux, you should realize that you have already paid to tie yourself to Windows.
(Score: 2) by Geezer on Thursday October 22 2015, @10:26AM
Nice for a small mom-n-pop shop maybe, but I can absolutely guarantee that an automotive manufacturer or aerospace company is not going to scrap millions of dollars of installed systems to let a guerrilla controls engineer retrofit their latest raspberry pi or arduino concoction into all their production machinery. The real world has a sensible inertia all its own.
I just run VMware on Debian and be done with it. Plays well with all the big boys (Siemens, Rockwell, Fanuc, Delta V, etc.)
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Thursday October 22 2015, @11:49AM
I certainly have been looking at alternatives. One of them is an industrial strength Arduino based PLC. I'm proficient with C and there are ladder to C compilers/IDE's for Arduino and other C applications. But how long will they be making these? Can I still buy a replacement CPU in 5/10/15/20 years? Doubtful. Companies like Automationdirect, Allen Bradley, and Siemens have been around for decades and aren't going anywhere.
At my other job, we have Automationdirect DL440 PLC's that were in stalled sometimes around 1995. I can still buy every part for them and AD told me they have no plans of cancelling the series yet. 20 years later and I can still get parts.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 22 2015, @04:32AM
I can confirm the issue with USB-RS232 converters (FTDI cables and virtualbox in my case). The delay between characters is much longer and irregular, amongst other subtleties. Difference is I have a Windows host and linux guest. Anyway what I did to solve this once and for all is use socat in the guest and a python script on the host (found somewhere on internet) so that serial traffic is redirected over TCP between host and guest. I've checked with the oscilloscope and it looks exactly like direct traffic this way.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Thursday October 22 2015, @12:01PM
Thanks for that tip. I'll look into it.
(Score: 2) by jcross on Thursday October 22 2015, @09:11PM
You can also get dedicated hardware serial to ethernet converter boxes. I used these to replace a rats-nest of serial cables in the office of a manufacturing plant and they seemed to work quite well, at least for printers and dumb terminals and that sort of thing.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Thursday October 22 2015, @09:45PM
That could work straight from the VM to the serial port. Though, powering it up in the field might be a problem unless it could be powered from USB.
(Score: 2) by Geezer on Thursday October 22 2015, @09:45AM
I find that Siemens Step7/TIA, Rockwell Studio 5000, and Mitsubishi GX Developer (roughly 90% of the PLC's in the world) all run very nicely under VMware on a Debian box. Yeah, it's a pain having multiple vm's to support client version and native OS requirements, but it works just fine. Same goes for AutoCAD and ProE, although the overhead necessitates a pretty powerful workstation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 22 2015, @11:09AM
Get a PC with a real serial port and you can use the COM port in a VM without hassles. All it takes is a serial card in a desktop, really.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Thursday October 22 2015, @11:34AM
Most of that work is field work. So laptops for me. Though, my older Lenovo has an Express card port.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 22 2015, @11:50AM
If it's a PCI connectivity ExpressCard (not USB -- expresscards can have PCI and USB data lines), that should work fine. Hopefully someone's made a PCI serial expresscard to get around USB RS232 issues.