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As if they hadn't discredited the movement enough already, feminists are now reportedly attempting to collect scalps from notable men in tech. And they're not worried about little things like the sexual assault they report actually happening.
Feminists in tech have been staging attempted "honey traps" to frame prominent male software developers for sexual assault, according to explosive claims on the blog of Eric S. Raymond, a pioneer of the open source movement. In allegations that will rock the world of software development, prominent targets included Linus Torvalds, creator of the Linux kernel.
Raymond quoted excerpts from an online chat with a trusted source, who told him that the Ada Inititiative, a recently-discontinued feminist advocacy group in tech, was trying to "collect scalps" by concocting charges of attempted sexual assault against male software developers.
The source told Raymond that the "MO" of the feminists was to "get alone with the target, and then immediately report "attempted sexual assault." The source said he had stopped mentoring female developers over fears that they might fabricate such charges.
In before someone disbelieves the message because they dislike the messenger.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by gman003 on Thursday November 05 2015, @05:13AM
The stated goal of feminism is simple: gender equality. That is, I think we can all agree, a reasonable goal. (Okay, Buzzard may or may not agree... I expect he'll claim to, but I don't know if I'll believe him, for reasons shortly to be evident)
Attacking people who aren't doing anything wrong, with false allegations of a *very* serious crime, is not behavior that advances that goal, nor is it reasonable behavior towards any goal.
I would say "we need a new word to distinguish these actual-equality-feminists from these radical-feminists-in-name-only", but that wouldn't work. The whole problem is this subculture trapped in a positive-feedback loop - you gain status in the subculture by fighting for the cause, and so the people who end up with the most status are those who fight the hardest for the cause at all times... even when it doesn't actually advance the cause, or when it actually hurts the cause in the long run. (Lest anyone think this exclusive to feminism, this same effect is at work everywhere from rabid open-source advocates to religious zealots... including those "men's right's activists" who care more about fighting this cult-feminism more than actual rights). But because the center of the subculture is that cause, trying to create words to distinguish them doesn't work. The zealots simply adopt the label of the true followers of the cause, because at least in their minds, they *are* the truest followers of the cause. After all, don't they fight the hardest for it?
(Oh, and if anyone's about to try to explain the True Scotsman Fallacy to me, this is quite different. This is analogous to saying "All true Scotsmen are Scottish" - one cannot be a Scotsman while not being Scottish, and one cannot be a feminist while fighting for female superiority)
While we can't control what label they use for themselves, it might at least help to have a label we can use for them. I've used "cult-feminism" in the past. The implied analogy to cargo cults is imperfect, but they act so much like a cult in other ways that I think it's usable. Anyone have a better label?
This is a dangerous tactic the cult-feminists have adopted. I really wonder what they think they will accomplish with this. Do they just think progress cannot be made as long as the old guard is present? Did Torvalds do something to make an enemy of them? He isn't particularly reserved in his language, he may have set of the language police that way. Or maybe they're just going after the big names to try to make a name for themselves within the cult-feminist community.
Unfortunately, because we have two spiralling cults dueling here, I don't think outsiders will be able to curtail this. It must fall on the actual-feminists to cast out these dangerous cult-feminists.
(All of this is, of course, assuming that the allegations are true. ESR is a trusted source, but that does not mean anyone he trusts is automatically trusted. Unfortunately, this does not seem sufficiently implausible to reject it at first glance... I am personally considering it "probably true" pending further evidence.)
(Score: 5, Informative) by Username on Thursday November 05 2015, @05:44AM
If it was about equality they would be egalitarians. Since it’s purely for the advancement of women, they would be feminists.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by mojo chan on Thursday November 05 2015, @08:38AM
Feminism isn't just about women. I'm male and I'm a feminist, because I want to improve things for everyone, especially men. I see how feminism liberated women in the 60s, and want the same thing to happen for men.
I guess the main difference with egalitarianism and feminism is that while they both strive to treat everyone equally as an end goal, feminism recognizes that things need to change for that to happen. It's not enough to merely treat everyone equally yourself, something needs to be done to fix the systemic problems that cause inequality too.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
(Score: 3, Touché) by cubancigar11 on Thursday November 05 2015, @09:10AM
No you don't.
So you are liar.
Okay so you don't have any idea what egalitarianism either.
Nobody can convince a male feminist to act like a man and worry about fellow men so I will just let this little link [telegraph.co.uk] here and let you come up with a reason why it is not actually about your internalized misandry.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @09:24AM
Okay so you don't have any idea what egalitarianism either.
Harsh, Dude! But then, you obviously have no idea what a Cuban Cigar is, either.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by mojo chan on Thursday November 05 2015, @10:01AM
act like a man
You are part of the problem. The high suicide rate among men is in no small part because of the pressure society puts on them to conform to ridiculous masculine stereotypes. Much like how women felt enormous pressure to find a husband before they were 30, settle down and have children back in the 1950s, modern men feel pressure to conform to ideals that make them depressed and suicidal.
Feminists want to help men deal with these problems. MRAs just blame feminists for not acting like women did in the 1950s, which they think would solve all their problems.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by cubancigar11 on Thursday November 05 2015, @11:52AM
Society doesn't put pressure on men to behave like men, society puts pressure men to behave like lap dogs to feminist women who want to act like men.
Okay so didn't read the article linked in my previous comment. Ignorance + misandry = male feminist.
Hahaha. This is the kind of bs male feminists spout by voluntarily undergoing through a brain-job. You couldn't be bothered to read anything MRAs say, but you will leap and slurp everything feminists say about MRAs.
(Score: 2) by mojo chan on Thursday November 05 2015, @12:39PM
Okay, so describe what "men acting like men" means.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Thursday November 05 2015, @01:58PM
Men acting like men means men acknowledging that there are differences between an average man and average woman and those differences are not going to go away unless eugenics is applied on a massive scale, and then accepting that no matter what they do, how they do, they are going to remain part of that group they were born into for as long as a sex-change operation is performed.
It is simple group theory. People bash out-groups. Logically, bashing men makes you disowned from the group of men. So if you bash men for being men, you invite others to call you 'not a man'.
This works for MRAs too. You know the number of times I have been told to 'man up' by feminists? As an MRA I want to take the definition of 'being a man' away from feminists and into the hands of those who actually have a penis. But then I get into arguments like this one.
And no, feminists are not fighting for equality for men, they are fighting for women and men are as disposable for them as men have been for everyone else for thousands of years. I don't care much about women as they have already too many people talking about them all day long, starting from neighbors right up to Presidents and Prime ministers. There are too many psychologically broken men who are in jail, on streets and in coffin that I am worried about.
And who said feminists want equality for men, again? That is retarded. I don't see any feminist talking about a father's right to raise his kid or a man's right to enjoy the non-animate fruits of his labor. I see them talking about responsibilities of a man even after his death, blaming him for being 'weak', 'not caring for his parents/people he left behind', 'Women have always been the primary victims of war', 'women provide a caring touch that men cannot', 'all men are rapists' etc. What was that... 'women rights are human rights?' No they are not, otherwise men would have them too. An ad campaign saying not all men are rapists had a couple of feminists mocking it on their Facebook page and writing an article about their own comments [independent.co.uk]. So to all male feminists, may be you are okay for being called a rapist, I don't like being treated like a criminal for being a man.
I mean I understand if people don't think about it if it doesn't effect them. I understand if women are feminists, they are not men and the only man they are ever going to worry about is already dancing around them. But to actively bad-mouth against those who are actually doing something about solving a human problem? That is nothing but hatred and unfortunately it is rampant against men.
Do I hate feminists? Do you hate someone who is waging a war against you? Do people in Afganistan hate America?
(Score: 2) by mojo chan on Thursday November 05 2015, @03:11PM
Men acting like men means men acknowledging that there are differences between an average man and average woman and those differences are not going to go away unless eugenics is applied on a massive scale, and then accepting that no matter what they do, how they do, they are going to remain part of that group they were born into for as long as a sex-change operation is performed.
That's the basic feminist position. Different, but equal.
You know the number of times I have been told to 'man up' by feminists? As an MRA I want to take the definition of 'being a man' away from feminists and into the hands of those who actually have a penis.
I'm a feminist and I have a penis. Why are you trying to exclude me? I'd never tell anyone to "man up", FWIW.
'all men are rapists'
You know this is a myth, right? It's a line from the fictional novel "The Women's Room", and is part of a debate in which one woman says it in anger after her daughter is raped, and another strongly disagrees with her. When elaborates that she isn't even talking about forced sexual contact, but making a more general point (I guess it's "raping the land", it doesn't mean some guy stuck his dick in the ground).
An ad campaign saying not all men are rapists had a couple of feminists mocking it on their Facebook page and writing an article about their own comments.
From the ad campaign: "I Booze With My Cousin, He Doesn't Misbehave With Me". Er, okay, we should congratulate the guy for not engaging in sexual assault and incest. It's a commercial campaign, not a grass roots movement, the signs are clearly photoshopped in later so it's not even clear that the models know what they are made to look like they are holding up... It really is deserving of strong criticism.
I don't like being treated like a criminal for being a man.
Please give an example of "being a man" that will result in you being treated like a criminal.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @04:12PM
I don't like being treated like a criminal for being a man.
Please give an example of "being a man" that will result in you being treated like a criminal.
Teaching elementary school as a man will get you treated like a criminal. By the parents, the other teachers, the administration, by pretty much everyone.
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Thursday November 05 2015, @06:36PM
You know, I have two choices: 1) You don't know women, just what feminists say what women are. 2) All the feminists I have talked to were trolling me when they said this to me.
Guess what, I really don't care what you put in (1) because I know that all the world is not out to get me and feminists really really believe that. I have heard it repeated in feminists circles of a lot of different countries. Along with the fact that only 10% (exactly 10, mind you) of rapes are reported in only *that* country because only *that* country promotes rape culture unlike every other country, and that all violence is male generated. All you have to do is go to twitter and follow #feminism tag. Or silently listen to any one of them for a longer period of time.
So no. It is you who give importance to feminist literature, and thanks for telling me that even there they mention such ridiculously poisonous thoughts.
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Thursday November 05 2015, @06:49PM
You know what? Fuck you. You are a definitely a male feminist. You have so much hatred for men that saying a man is innocent is troubling you. Seriously, you are mental. See a doctor. And don't talk to me again.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @06:46PM
The high suicide rate among men is in no small part because of the pressure society puts on them to conform to ridiculous masculine stereotypes.
These so called "ridiculous stereotypes" also known as natural male behavior to the mentally healthy. There is not a single culture in the entirety of human history where masculinity wasn't natural for males, regardless of the disconnect between that culture from other human cultures.
Sorry cultural marxists, but human gender dimorphism is real and it will be real regardless of how deep you bury your collective heads in the sand.
Feminists want to help men deal with these problems.
No. Feminists of the radical-progressive persuasion want to help men with problems that these feminists think males should have, while completely disregarding the problems that males want to talk about.
MRAs just blame feminists for not acting like women did in the 1950s
Slanderous lies. I'm not an MRA, so I'll let MRA activist Karen Straughan [youtube.com] speak for the movement.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @10:54PM
Where did you learn how to read minds? Can you teach me?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @11:33AM
I'm male and I'm a feminist
o i am laffin
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @06:11AM
"Anyone have a better label?"
"Feminists" works just fine. See you're operating on the false assumption that these "cult-feminists" are somehow the radical/fringe/minority group. They are not. The belief in The Patriarchy, 1 in 4/"rape culture", wage gap myths, etc are all central tenets of current feminism and what is being taught in universities. It's why older, established feminist are being protested and no-platformed when they speak out against "cult-feminists" and these tenets.
But you got one thing right, it's very much like a cult.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @06:29AM
No and no. The stated goal of feminism is equal rights and treatment for women. Men having less is okay just so long as women have at least as much. See how much they do for child custody rights, workplace deaths, or homeless men for examples.
Gender equality is not only an absurd goal but a foolish one. A man does not need medical coverage when they are pregnant. A woman does not need to get their prostate examined. There is plenty of evidence that our very brains have different circuitry connections which impact thought and behavior. Men and women are different and that is okay.
It is time to get back to reality.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @07:51AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @08:41AM
Planting fish and cactus in the desert sand is both equal and wrong.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by mojo chan on Thursday November 05 2015, @11:23AM
This old chestnut. "You aren't fixing all the problems in the world simultaneously, therefore you hate everyone you are not helping".
It's true that feminists did start out mainly interested in women's rights, at a time when women were far from being equal with men. Women have not even had the vote for 100 years yet, in the UK and US. But it has evolved since then. A lot of it is now promoting men's rights and issues, such as the low number of male primary school teachers. Just because you can find an area where there is no significant effort being made by feminists does not mean that they don't care or wilfully ignore those issues.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @07:26PM
You can't claim with integrity to be making efforts for causes A and B when you do nothing for B. That is how logic works. Feminism does meaningful work for one sex and not the other. The discussion is done.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @09:45AM
I believe many people use the term "SJW".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @10:57PM
No, from how its used the only definition I can see that makes sense for "SJW" is "anyone who disagrees with me".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @11:48PM
I've never been called SJW by anyone, and I've disagreed with many people online. Have you ever considered that perhaps people call you SJW because you are one?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 06 2015, @06:28PM
Maybe if I knew what it meant, I could consider that option, but none of its uses ever hint at any kind of meaning other than disagreeing about something. So what does it mean, other than "STFU asshole who disagrees with me"?
(Score: 3, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 05 2015, @02:33PM
That was second gen feminism and with that I agree wholeheartedly. Third gen feminism though are outrage merchants.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Thursday November 05 2015, @06:13PM
That was second gen feminism and with that I agree wholeheartedly. Third gen feminism though are outrage merchants.
This is the problem with conservatives, always conserving Progressive gains of the previous generation. Try questioning your assumptions and come to the Dark Side for a visit. You aren't even going to be spared you know, your 'moderate' position won't keep them from trying to destroy you. So if you are going to be hated might as well really be worthy of it.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 05 2015, @08:19PM
Conservative? You're a funny guy. Libertarian if you must label. Liberal would be more correct in the classic sense but progressives have sullied that label so badly I wouldn't take it now on a bet.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.