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As if they hadn't discredited the movement enough already, feminists are now reportedly attempting to collect scalps from notable men in tech. And they're not worried about little things like the sexual assault they report actually happening.
Feminists in tech have been staging attempted "honey traps" to frame prominent male software developers for sexual assault, according to explosive claims on the blog of Eric S. Raymond, a pioneer of the open source movement. In allegations that will rock the world of software development, prominent targets included Linus Torvalds, creator of the Linux kernel.
Raymond quoted excerpts from an online chat with a trusted source, who told him that the Ada Inititiative, a recently-discontinued feminist advocacy group in tech, was trying to "collect scalps" by concocting charges of attempted sexual assault against male software developers.
The source told Raymond that the "MO" of the feminists was to "get alone with the target, and then immediately report "attempted sexual assault." The source said he had stopped mentoring female developers over fears that they might fabricate such charges.
In before someone disbelieves the message because they dislike the messenger.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Adamsjas on Thursday November 05 2015, @05:23AM
Where were you going with that tirade?
Are you stating categorically that what ESR says ISN'T true? You have some inside knowledge of this? Or are you just making political statements?
I suppose he could have made it all up, it is after all very short. What would his end-game be?
(Score: 5, Informative) by jdavidb on Thursday November 05 2015, @05:29AM
Are you stating categorically that what ESR says ISN'T true?
I'm just going by what's in the summary, but from what I'm seeing, a lot of people might feel this assertion would fit into the category of Not Even Wrong [rationalwiki.org]. It's so imprecise and it alleges something not just about behavior but about motivations - motivations that we can speculate about forever but unless one of us is a mindreader we can never be certain about. Sure women have entrapped men in the manner described in the past. It's quite a leap from there to vast feminist conspiracy. And the target of the conspiracy isn't clear at all to me - why do feminists want to "discredit" the tech movement or open source or whatever? Does the tech movement oppose feminism? If so, that is news to me!!
If you've got evidence some woman is trying to entrap Linus Torvalds or somebody, just tell him and warn him not to spend time alone in circumstances that could later be disputed. And maybe publicize it. But there's no need to bring all the rest of this into it, unless you've got actual statements from the conspirators or something. (Maybe all that's in the article - true to tradition, I've posted about four times now without even reading it.)
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 5, Informative) by jdavidb on Thursday November 05 2015, @05:37AM
I have now read the article and I still have no idea what the motivation of these people allegedly is. Do they want money? What is it? Am I supposed to just know?
BTW, did anyone notice the article was published at breitbart? That's usually good for at least a little bit of ad hominem discrediting in some post, somewhere...
(Don’t like that, ladies? Tough. You were just fine with collective guilt when the shoe was on the other foot. Enjoy your turn!)
Two wrongs don't make a right, Eric. You'd be a lot more believable here if you'd take the moral high ground. As it is, it's going to become easier for people to discredit or dismiss you as simply being anti-feminist.
thanks to the feminist-led introduction of controversial codes of conduct for developers on some open source projects
If this is what I'm thinking of, the last I checked, ESR was a libertarian like me and believed individual groups had freedom of association and could set whatever codes of conduct for membership that they wanted. I have learned a lot over the last several years about how to eliminate disrespect from my discourse, and I feel I've really benefited from it. My wife degrees, and she does not describe herself as a feminist at all but in fact the opposite!
It's possible to be a libertarian and also be a feminist. It's possible to be a man and also be a feminist. It's possible to be concerned about disrespectful communication and not be a feminist, and it's possible to be concerned for the welfare of women (physical, emotional, or otherwise) and not be a feminist.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 05 2015, @11:31AM
Allow me to fill you in then. Third-gen feminism is not about equality. It in fact directly opposes equality and goes instead for control, power, and money for itself through fear and the deconstruction of all things masculine. When cornered into a debate instead of a monologue they will not debate, they will instead shriek the word misogynist over top of you until either you give up or they've had enough and cry harassment.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Thursday November 05 2015, @03:05PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 05 2015, @04:09PM
Fear them? No. No more than I fear rust on a car body. I simply recognize them as a destructive and undesirable force that should be eradicated if you don't want everything falling to shit.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Thursday November 05 2015, @04:38PM
I simply recognize them as a destructive and undesirable force that should be eradicated
Why can't you just live and let live? I don't get it.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 05 2015, @04:48PM
Oh, I can. With people who aren't actively attacking me.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jdavidb on Thursday November 05 2015, @05:07PM
I guess I am unaware of what they are doing to you. If they are attacking you, call the police and have them arrested. If they are making offensive statements about men all being rapists and being the source of all evil or whatever, I would just separate myself from them. I wouldn't go where they are, wouldn't have relationships with those kinds of people, wouldn't read or listen to what they have to say, etc. There is nobody like that in my life, and if there was, they wouldn't stay there for long. They are free to have a negative opinion of me, but not free to compel me to stay connected to them and listen to what they have to say, and I am much happier for it.
How are they attacking you?
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 3, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 05 2015, @05:19PM
Sounds all civil but it is not civil to simply lay down and die when someone attacks your rights as a citizen and human being, it is cowardice. If there are no competing voices, they will get what they shriek for.
How? Just one example for now because I doubt it will sink in or do any good. Most colleges now take sexual assault (defined as any unwanted touching, even if it wasn't unwanted until well after the fact) accusations as a conviction and expel the male involved. No investigation. No due process. No innocent until proven guilty. No waiting on the actual justice system. No worries if she doesn't even file a police report at all. Hell, no worries if he's never been in a room alone with her at all.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Thursday November 05 2015, @05:31PM
Sounds all civil but it is not civil to simply lay down and die when someone attacks your rights as a citizen and human being, it is cowardice
Who is laying down and dying? I have a wonderful fulfilling and happy life and don't have to worry about what lunatics out there are shrieking.
How? Just one example for now because I doubt it will sink in or do any good. Most colleges now take sexual assault (defined as any unwanted touching, even if it wasn't unwanted until well after the fact) accusations as a conviction and expel the male involved. No investigation. No due process. No innocent until proven guilty. No waiting on the actual justice system. No worries if she doesn't even file a police report at all. Hell, no worries if he's never been in a room alone with her at all.
To me the solution to that is colleges should be able to adopt whatever policy they want and you and I should not be compelled to fund them if we don't want to. Your funding could go to a college you agree with and the loons could have their own colleges that do it their way.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 05 2015, @05:49PM
Sounds nice but you don't have an option. You fund every college that accepts students receiving financial aid through your tax dollars. No, when you have evil you need to deal with it rather than hiding your head in the sand. Deal with it legally and without violating anyone's rights but deal with it or it will only grow. In this situation, that means speaking out against third gen feminists no matter the amount of hatred and venom flung back at you.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Thursday November 05 2015, @06:49PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Thursday November 05 2015, @07:10PM
Also, this is a great reason to condone and practice tax avoidance [wikipedia.org]
Let us hope that the tax credit will return in full force. And then we can revive the lost tactic, not of "closing the loopholes," but of ever-widening them, opening them so widely for all indeed, that everyone will be able to drive a Mack truck through them, until that wondrous day when the entire federal revenue system will be one gigantic loophole. [lewrockwell.com]
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 1) by ralphhogaboom on Thursday November 05 2015, @08:15PM
Your comments here are good stuff. I'm reading, and nodding, and glad you're replying from your reasoned point of view. Keep it up, mate.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Thursday November 05 2015, @08:30PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @10:15PM
Lol, text circle jerk here!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jdavidb on Thursday November 05 2015, @05:34PM
When cornered into a debate instead of a monologue they will not debate, they will instead shriek the word misogynist over top of you until either you give up or they've had enough and cry harassment.
Best not to corner people into debate - nobody responds well to it. Instead of discussions where both people are enthusiastic about the discussion, and end it when somebody isn't any more. I'm getting a lot out of this discussion with you and I hope it's mutual, but I'd hate to be cornering you or anybody else into a debate. I don't need to straighten people out when they are wrong. Lots of people are loons and I enjoy laughing about them privately with my friends. That's much more rewarding than trying to straighten out crazy people.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 05 2015, @05:43PM
That's the problem, they are not interested in debate. It has to be brought to them unwillingly. When they say they want a dialogue on something, they mean they want to speak their platform without opposition.
Witness everything they do to avoid debate: cry harassment, label any disagreement as hate speech, label you a misogynist even if you're an outspoken egalitarian, try to pass actual laws prohibiting hate speech so they can have you thrown in jail if you disagree with them.
No, I remain unconvinced third gen feminists are reasonable human beings. They are opportunistic, female supremacy extremists. They have no ethics. Their actions have repeatedly proven this.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Thursday November 05 2015, @06:48PM
That's the problem, they are not interested in debate. It has to be brought to them unwillingly
Well if that's what you want to do. But in my experience I'm much happier for not trying to debate such people. I'm a bit like Mal on Firefly in the bar, they confront me with how wrong I am and ask what I'm going to do about it, and I say I'm going to finish my drink and we'll go our separate ways.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 05 2015, @08:32PM
Mal had given up his fight for liberty and equality. He was broken by losing the war. It was an integral part of his character. Don't be like Mal if you don't have to.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Thursday November 05 2015, @08:42PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 05 2015, @09:29PM
That, at least, we can agree on.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @10:20PM
So in other words its not feminism at all, so stop calling it as such.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 05 2015, @10:44PM
I will if they will.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Informative) by frojack on Thursday November 05 2015, @06:16AM
And maybe publicize it. But there's no need to bring all the rest of this into it, . (Maybe all that's in the article - true to tradition, I've posted about four times now without even reading it.)
Its time to read the article.
Publicize is exactly what ESR is trying to do, and in doing that, he, to some degree, inoculates the susceptible population.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @06:18AM
Like your views on third wave feminism then.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @11:31AM
RationalWiki
o i am laffin
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @10:17PM
Because they're feminazis and SJWs and PC. Its what they do.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by mojo chan on Thursday November 05 2015, @11:15AM
The default position when people make extraordinary claims is to doubt and require extraordinary proof. A snippet of an IRC chat with names removed on a personal blog is not proof of anything.
This is going to need some independent verification, or some evidence. Why hasn't Linus said anything, or any other male OS developers who are part of this supposed protection programme?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
(Score: 3, Informative) by Sir Finkus on Thursday November 05 2015, @01:35PM
This is going to need some independent verification, or some evidence. Why hasn't Linus said anything, or any other male OS developers who are part of this supposed protection programme?
Lets be honest here, if they did they'd be pilloried by a large (and very vocal) section of the tech world. Linus probably has the clout to say just about anything he wants, but might not want to deal with it.
There are certain opinions that are dangerous to express honestly. People have gotten fired for less.
Join our Folding@Home team! [stanford.edu]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by mojo chan on Thursday November 05 2015, @01:46PM
So it's bullshit. If there was any evidence that these measures were needed they could publish it. Instead it's all just innuendo and rumour.
This has about as much credibility as the lizard illuminati running the world. One guy with an agenda, a secret source and zero evidence.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @01:51PM
This has about as much credibility as the lizard illuminati running the world.
You mean "The Patriarchy"?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 05 2015, @10:24PM
I thought we were talking about facts and stuff with evidence to back it up, not opinions. So that's why there's nothing to back it up, because its not real and doesn't exist outside of these nutjobs' heads.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday November 05 2015, @06:20PM
Are you stating categorically that what ESR says ISN'T true?
When absolutely zero evidence is presented to support an accusation, then yes, my default position is that it is not true.
(Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Thursday November 05 2015, @06:42PM
Are you stating categorically that what ESR says ISN'T true?
There's a first time for everything. Even ESR being right. But I suspect this isn't it.
Hurrah! Quoting works now!