SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
France has declared a national state of emergency and has closed its borders after at least 40 people were killed in multiple shootings in Paris.
At least 15 people were killed near the Bataclan arts centre, where up to 60 people are being held hostage. Explosions and gunfire are reported.
Three people were killed in an attack near the Stade de France, with some reports suggesting a suicide blast.
Paris authorities have urged people to stay indoors.
Military personnel are being deployed across Paris.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/11/13/455943961/violence-reported-in-paris
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/world/paris-shooting/index.html
Update #1 [BBC updates]:
Scores of people have been killed in multiple gun and bomb attacks in Paris
At least 100 people are reported to have died inside the Bataclan concert hall in central Paris
Others died in attacks near the Stade de France, where France were playing Germany, and at restaurants
France has declared a national state of emergency and has closed its borders
Paris residents have been asked to stay indoors and military personnel are being deployed across the city
[...] Reuters. quoting an un-named official at Paris City Hall, says the current death toll in Paris is around 140.
According to the Paris prosecutor, of the four assailants who died during the sidge at the Bataclan, three committed suicide by detonating explosive vests. The prosecutor has warned that some of their accomplices may "still be on the loose".
[...] Here is what French president François Hollande told reporters outside the Bataclan concert hall just now: "To all those who have seen these awful things, I want to say we are going to lead a war which will be pitiless. Because when terrorists are capable of committing such atrocities they must be certain that they are facing a determined France, a united France, a France that is together and does not let itself be moved, even if today we express infinite sorrow."
(Score: 5, Informative) by Hairyfeet on Saturday November 14 2015, @04:44AM
Except you can count the number of crazy Christian attacks on the west with two hands with fingers left over AND every mainstream religion attacked them as the nutbars that they are. Now lets compare this to Islam where you will run out of fingers and toes in a single month and you will be hard pressed to find most imams calling them out as apostates because they know what their book says and more importantly HOW their book works.
For those that do not know their "prophet" actually did something that was REALLY fricking smart when he designed their religion. He saw that other religions had conflicting passages and came up with something bloody brilliant to solve this problem and its REALLY simple, ready? 'Anything that comes later supersedes anything that comes before' and with that one little move he completely solved the conflicting passages issues. Of course if you look at what actually comes later, the Hadiths? Its all "Jihad jihad jihad" while all the peaceful stuff? Yeah that came first and is therefor superseded, its really only historical. I'll leave with a collection of quotes from the quran, you can decide for yourself how peaceful they are...
Quran 4:89: They (infidels) desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
Quran 8:12: Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;
Quran 2:191: kill the disbelievers wherever we find them
Quran 22:19-22: for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods.
Quran 8:12: Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Quran 8:7: Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: Wipe the infidels out to the last.
Quran 8:59: The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy.
Quran 8:60: Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you.
Quran 9.29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
Quran 47:4: Strike off the heads of the disbelievers and, after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 4, Informative) by vux984 on Saturday November 14 2015, @06:38AM
Except you can count the number of crazy Christian attacks on the west with two hands with fingers left over
20th century?
IRA, Nazi. Both were more political than religious in nature but religion was a factor in the conflict and the particpants were nonetheless mostly Christians who reconciled/rationalized their actions with their faith. And that's my point. Muslim extremists are using Islamic texts as a pretext and justification to do what they WANT to do: seize power and set them selves up in power. The texts really aren't the real motivation. the texts are the rationalization. Just as Christians found ways to rationalize their actions with the texts in the past.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Hairyfeet on Saturday November 14 2015, @07:22AM
LOLWut? The Nazis HATED Christianity, they threw plenty of priests in the camps with everybody else, try reading Himmler and you'll find that other than a little lip service pre 36 before they had full power they thought Christianity was crap. And as for the IRA? They wanted their country back, if they could get the people on their side by singing the praises of Bozo? They would have done so.
Sorry but not even close, and kinda sad that you had to try to bring in a group that despised religion and one that simply used it to gain press to try to compare it to a worldwide totalitarian political movement that honestly makes the NSDAP look cuddly by comparison. It has been shown time and time again the more Muslims a country has? The more violence it has. Look at the countries that are 100% Muslims...are they peaceful? Nope, in fact they are war torn shitholes. What you have is a religion with beliefs in the middle ages with access to 21st century technology.....a bad combination and sooner or later we will have to wake the fuck up and realize their values and ours are mutually incompatible.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @07:28AM
It's because Muslims hate us for our Freedoms, has nothing to do with the West occupying and bombing their countries. So nothing like the IRA at all. Oh wait... yeah, no it is because of those things.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @07:38PM
> LOLWut? The Nazis HATED Christianity
No, they used christianity for their own purposes. The priests they sent to the camps were the ones who did not cooperate with their co-option of christianity. Which is exactly what you are claiming about islam - a "totalitarian political movement."
Positive Christianity [wikipedia.org]
> It has been shown time and time again the more Muslims a country has? The more violence it has.
Correction, you and your fellow islamafoes have claimed it time and time again.
In fact:
Homicide rates in Muslim-majority countries average about two murders per annum per 100,000 people. In non-Muslim countries, the average rate is about 8 per 100,000. Murder rates fluctuate from year to year, but they are consistently low in Muslim societies. The homicide rate in Indonesia, the world’s largest Muslim country, is 1 per 100,000—one-fifth the rate of the world’s largest Christian country, the United States. Christian countries live with murder rates that are unknown in the Muslim world. Brazilians and Mexicans are used to murder rates in the 15-25 range; the rate in Venezuela tops 50. Turks, Egyptians, Iranians, and Malaysians live with rates in the 2-4 range
The world experienced 235 episodes of intrastate violence that claimed over one thousand lives between 1946 and 2007. A total of just over 21 million people lost their lives in these conflicts.
Huntington’s thesis about Muslim bloodiness fares badly when we look at the evidence. In predominantly Muslim countries, on average, 0.65 percent of the population perished in major episodes of intrastate violence. In non-Muslim countries, 0.72 percent died in such episodes on average. In the postwar period, Muslim countries suffered slightly less severely from loss of life in major episodes of political violence than non-Muslim countries.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/15/no-islam-isn-t-inherently-violent-and-the-math-proves-it.html [thedailybeast.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @11:57PM
WTF? This drivel got modereated "Insightful"?
HITLER WAS CHRISTIAN!
"Besides that, I believe one thing: there is a Lord God! And this Lord God creates the peoples." Adolf Hitler
"I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal." Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations; we have stamped it out" Adolf Hitler
HITLER WAS A FUCKING ALTAR BOY! [answers.com]
(Score: 4, Informative) by vux984 on Sunday November 15 2015, @01:32PM
The Nazis HATED Christianity,
No they really didn't. Most of them identified themselves AS Christians. Most German people identified AS Christians. Hitler self identfied as Christian.
they threw plenty of priests in the camps with everybody else
The Nazi's disposed of priests who weren't going along with their nutjob plans the same way they dealt with anyone else who wasn't on board with their nutjob plans.
That's no different than the various extremist Muslim groups killing other Muslims who aren't on board with their nutjob plans. (That is to say -- In this modern conflict, not only are different the extremist factions killing eachother -- they are also killing the Muslim moderates who disagree with them.)
There are many commonalities with Nazi's christianity; from Hitler seeking to legitimize his regime with the vatican -- to framing the holocaust against the jews as carrying out a divine mandate. Religion may not have been the centerpiece to the degree it is to ISIS, but the German's were by and large Christians from the top of the military food chain to the farmers in the countryside, and they'd reconciled the war with their faith. They went to church every Sunday. They believed the war was God was restoring his faithful German's to their rightful place; taking what what was rightfuly theirs back from the Jews, etc.
It has been shown time and time again the more Muslims a country has? The more violence it has. Look at the countries that are 100% Muslims...are they peaceful?
Actual statistics and evidence really don't support any of these claims at all.
Yes, you have Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya as predominantly Islam.
But you have Myanmar (90% buddist), Rwanda (94% Christian), Columbia (92% Christian), Congo (50% Christian, 45% other, 2% islam), Zimbabwe (65% Christian), El Salvador (86% Christian....)
Violence and war corresponds far more to poverty than it does with Religion.
And you can't point to the current wars in the middle east as proof of anything. The West has been waging proxy wars there for decades and exploiting the region for oil. After a couple generations of that, there'd be extremist violent factions breeding there no matter what religion the local population was.
People are all much the same. Those people happen to be Muslim, so when you shit on them stir them up the extremist factions that emerge are going to be justifying their actions with Islam with God on their side. Just as the IRA and the Nazi's were composed of Christians with God on THEIR side. The problem isn't Islam.
Any religion, indeed ANY set of beliefs can be twisted and perverted by an extremist. Its why one of my first examples in this thread was a reference to the United States and its traditions of law. Laws which are time and again twisted and subverted to do something vile when it suits those that benefit from it or when they are afraid. If the United States manages to effortlessly subvert its own constitution -- to intern the Japanese in concentration in the 20th century, random (and not so random) individuals in Gauntanamo Bay in the 21st, it just goes to show you just how malleable things are. What chance does any religion stand?
If a people find they need to justify something, God WILL be on their side, their religion WILL justify whatever action they take; and even their laws WILL not only allow it, but will have ALWAYS allowed it. Even if they hadn't interpreted them that way before and it goes against everything they literally say. That is not a feature of Islam, that is a feature of people.
worldwide totalitarian political movement that honestly makes the NSDAP look cuddly by comparison
Say what now? This just batshit. Their is no worldwide totalitarian movement there are several different factions that are literally at war with eachother within Islam. Multiple different extremist groups all at war with eachother, and at war with the moderates.
Look at list of the factions fighting in Syria alone.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Sunday November 15 2015, @01:44PM
For your education, and what would have happened if Hitler had won, Himmler on religion [worldfuturefund.org] including speeches and audio recordings with translation. Allow me to highlight one excerpt.."We will have to deal with Christianity in a tougher way than hitherto. We must settle accounts with this Christianity, this greatest of plagues that could have happened to us in our history, which has weakened us in every conflict. If our generation does not do it then it would I think drag on for a long time. We must overcome it within ourselves. "
Yep sounds like a lover of Christ to me, uh huh.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 15 2015, @03:08PM
> We must settle accounts with this Christianity,
>
>Yep sounds like a lover of Christ to me, uh huh.
As already mentioned they didn't like some parts of christianity, they were pushing their own sect. [wikipedia.org] That is the way it is done, nothing unique to the nazis.
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Sunday November 15 2015, @09:02PM
Yes Himmler was fascinated with Hinduism, and yes Himmler made some speeches. Himmler also had lots of enemies within the party. To credit all of Nazi Germany or even the Nazi party as sharing his personal religious views and vision for the future is a gross over statement.
Nazi Germany including Hitler himself was overwhelmingly Catholic. It's absurd to claim you know what would have happened if they'd won. But I think its pretty doubtful millions of Germans including most of the Nazi party leadership would have all simply gone along with abandoning their faith just because Himmler said so. Its far more likely that if the Nazi's won, with Rome under Nazi control, that a Nazi sympathizer would have been installed as Pope.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Monday November 16 2015, @05:05AM
Good Lord you aren't gonna accept your wrongness are you? Well you want me to wallpaper the place with Hitler quotes on religion? Really not a problem..
"We demand freedom for all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or conflict with the customs and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity, without owing itself to a particular confession...." that is from the fricking NSDAP handbook.
"As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the people fulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularly at the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a single holy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned to his own heaven." Mein Kampf Vol 1 Chap 1...sounds like he wants his OWN religion based on Germany NOT any particular official religion to me..more? Might want to look at his views on propaganda, aka lie your ass off to get folks on board..
"To whom should propaganda be addressed? … It must be addressed always and exclusively to the masses… The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skilfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct, etc. But since propaganda is not and cannot be the necessity in itself … its effect for the most part must be aimed at the emotions and only to a very limited degree at the so-called intellect… it's soundness is to be measured exclusively by its effective result". (Main Kampf, Vol 1, Ch 6 and Ch 12) Let us not forget this was the guy that swore up and down Germany only wanted peace with France...right up until he rolled the tanks. I think we have more than enough evidence that what he sold the masses and what he actually believed was two totally different things...More?
"As a human being it is my duty to see to it that humanity will not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did that old civilization two thousand years ago, a civilization which was driven to its ruin by the Jews. . . I am convinced that I am really a devil and not a Christian if I do not feel compassion and do not wage war, as Christ did two thousand years ago, against those who are steeling and exploiting these poverty-stricken people."...that is from a speech waaay back in 1922, even back then it sounds like he was simply using the old "Jews killed Christ" routine to get the people on his side for a genocide. Might want to look up "The stab in the back" to see why as a soldier of Germany, regardless of religion, he HATED Jews with a passion, because it was "common knowledge" that the Germans were gonna "win the war" but Jewish bankers stabbed them in the back.
Sorry but we have more than enough evidence that the Nazi leadership gave not a single fuck about ANY religion except when it could be used to further the goals of the state. It was made clear that the "morality of the state" would have been controlled by Himmler and the SS and he certainly had no fucks to give about Christianity, and the rest of the leadership only cared as much as it would fall in line with their already chosen goals. Again if a church leader said "this is wrong"? Well his ass could get in the camp next to the Jew, they had ZERO respect or compassion for anybody just because they were one religion or another.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Monday November 16 2015, @09:20PM
.sounds like he wants his OWN religion based on Germany
Of course they did; it even has its own name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity [wikipedia.org]
That's par for the course with any nutjob extremist; start by defining the way religion 'ought' to be; then declare that everyone who disagrees is interpreting it wrong.
That's not a Nazi rejection of Christianity any more than ISIS is rejecting Islam today.
Both did the same damned thing, took the parts they needed/wanted, downplayed or reinterpreted anything that didn't match the propaganda. Kill anyone who didn't get on board.
The context of this argument is ISIS relationship with Islam. And its the same as the Nazi relationship with Christianity. You can't declare on one hand that the Nazi's hated Christianity because they inveted their own pro-German racist version of it and then started killing priests who didn't think it was right while at the same time declare that Islam is the root problem with ISIS... when ISIS did the same thing: they made distorted version of it, declared everyone else wrong, including other Muslims and then started the killing; fully justified by their distortion of their religion.
Its exactly the same thing.
Good Lord you aren't gonna accept your wrongness are you?
Not when I'm not wrong.
Tell you what, though I'll concede the Nazi's hated Christianity by their actions; if you concede that ISIS hates Islam by their equivalent actions.
Because I don't care whether you you call what they did as:
a) 'pro-their-own-relgion' (because they both took their religion and integrated it with their propaganda)
or
b) 'anti-their-own-religion' (because they both took their religion and grossly distorted it to serve their propaganda)
as long as you call it the same thing for both groups.
(And we surely agree that both groups are anti-other-peoples-religion.)
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:34AM
Its off the front page so nobody is gonna read this therefor I do not care to continue this conversation, goodbye.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @04:32PM
> The texts really aren't the real motivation. the texts are the rationalization.
About two years ago there was a widely reported survey that compared the level of a person's literacy in their own religion with their level of extremism - not just muslims, but christians and jews. The results were that the more extreme their ideology, the less knowledge they had about their own religion.
I wish I had bookmarked one of those reports because now all my google-fu can find are stories about general religious literacy - including knowledge about other religions and how atheists have the most general knowledge about religion of any group.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @07:30AM
> kill them wherever you find them
Are all your quotes as out-of-context as this one? (The clue was in that you left the lower case letter at the start of the quote, or end with a period, so weren't even quoting a complete sentence. You need to fix that if you want to get away with it in the future.)
2:190 Fight in the way of God those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. God does not like transgressors.
2:191 And kill them wherever you find them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah [Persecution] is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192 And if they cease, then indeed, God is Forgiving and Merciful.
So that part you quoted was conditional on them already having started a war with you on your own territory. Which I guess you can say has already happened. Thanks Americans.
(Score: 2) by BK on Saturday November 14 2015, @03:17PM
I see some low numbers there. I'm pretty sure that's the bit that was superseded.
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @06:03PM
> I see some low numbers there. I'm pretty sure that's the bit that was superseded.
Are you saying the quran is written in chronological order?
Lol. So cute. Such an expert on why Islam is evil and you don't even know the most basic mechanical facts about the religion.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday November 14 2015, @02:21PM
Those are the google terms you were looking for. Lots of results for those. Still happening, actually. Have never really stopped. Crazy Christian attacks from the West have been going on for centuries and have killed more people than Hitler, Stalin, and muslim terrorists combined (although possibly not more than Mao's Great Leap Forward). Muslim terrorists are pikers next to the crazy Christians that de-populated two entire continents of the world.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Saturday November 14 2015, @04:00PM
Citation please, or are you gonna seriously try to claim actual wars like Iraq were crusades?
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Saturday November 14 2015, @06:23PM
If you're referring to the Native American depopulation, supposedly the "Smallpox Blanket Maneuver" is generally thought to be a myth. You sound to be straining the definition of "attack" rather hard.
Citations needed
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @04:57PM
> 'Anything that comes later supersedes anything that comes before'
Except that's not actually how "abrogation" works - there is a lot more to it than simple chronological order. It is waaaay more complicated than that and is the subject of tons and tons of debate within the religion. For example, some groups think 400+ verses have been abrogated while others think less than 20, some even say zero. [wikipedia.org]
Anyone unfamiliar with rhetoric like hairyfeet's should realize that his knowledge is the result of the islamafoe echo-chamber - a section of the internet populated by non-experts who have so little literacy in the cultures they criticize that they don't even know what they don't know. It is invective based on ignorance and cherry-picking and then declaring themselves the final word on things that tens of thousands of people who have dedicated their lives to studying have argued over for centuries. There is so much disagreement within islam that anyone trying to declare what is "true islam" is only revealing their own nature, not anything meaningful about actual muslims.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Saturday November 14 2015, @06:26PM
If there is no consensus at all by experts, how can you say he's definitely wrong?
There are at least a few groups that probably have that stance, and as is mentioned repeatedly all across this comment section, a small fraction of Islam is what we're talking about here.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @07:43PM
> If there is no consensus at all by experts, how can you say he's definitely wrong?
He is wrong in saying that it is a universal truth about islam.
> a small fraction of Islam is what we're talking about here.
No, HE is talking about all muslims. The reasoning is "if you aren't a crazy extremist you are doing islam wrong."