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France has declared a national state of emergency and has closed its borders after at least 40 people were killed in multiple shootings in Paris.
At least 15 people were killed near the Bataclan arts centre, where up to 60 people are being held hostage. Explosions and gunfire are reported.
Three people were killed in an attack near the Stade de France, with some reports suggesting a suicide blast.
Paris authorities have urged people to stay indoors.
Military personnel are being deployed across Paris.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/11/13/455943961/violence-reported-in-paris
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/world/paris-shooting/index.html
Update #1 [BBC updates]:
Scores of people have been killed in multiple gun and bomb attacks in Paris
At least 100 people are reported to have died inside the Bataclan concert hall in central Paris
Others died in attacks near the Stade de France, where France were playing Germany, and at restaurants
France has declared a national state of emergency and has closed its borders
Paris residents have been asked to stay indoors and military personnel are being deployed across the city
[...] Reuters. quoting an un-named official at Paris City Hall, says the current death toll in Paris is around 140.
According to the Paris prosecutor, of the four assailants who died during the sidge at the Bataclan, three committed suicide by detonating explosive vests. The prosecutor has warned that some of their accomplices may "still be on the loose".
[...] Here is what French president François Hollande told reporters outside the Bataclan concert hall just now: "To all those who have seen these awful things, I want to say we are going to lead a war which will be pitiless. Because when terrorists are capable of committing such atrocities they must be certain that they are facing a determined France, a united France, a France that is together and does not let itself be moved, even if today we express infinite sorrow."
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 14 2015, @05:08PM
Uh-huh. And, Islam is the people, not the book. Just as Christianity is the people, not the book. It has been pointed out repeatedly in this discussion that people of all faiths can find something in their book to justify the hatred.
Islam, today, is a virulent disease, spreading around the world, and destroying anything and everything that stands in it's way.
Christianity seemed to be a very similar disease at one point in time. Today, it is far less virulent. Today, Islam is a danger to you, to me, to every man and woman in the world. That includes innocent young fools attending a concert.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @05:18PM
> Uh-huh. And, Islam is the people, not the book.
By that logic, islam is not a threat all. Since 99.999% have never hurt anyone.
Go ahead make up some new metric to justify your bullshit. It is any port in a storm with guys like you anyway.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 14 2015, @05:25PM
No new metric needed. Watch, listen, and learn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s [youtube.com]
I'm not sure how "smart" Brigitte is, but she does have insight and wisdom going for her.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @05:43PM
Yay, yet another gamergater citing a random obscure youtube video of some bigot because they are incapable of articulating, or even having, their own beliefs.
So to summarize:
Islam is incompatible with everybody
o Except for what the Quran says
o Except for what 99.999% of muslims actually do
No, instead a religion of a billion people is defined by the handful of extremists. That makes you a neo-nazi white nationalist since however peaceful you are, those guys define you.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 14 2015, @06:09PM
Call it however you wish to call it. I fully expect you to dismiss these links because of the sources. The facts won't be changed, of course, just because you refuse to believe them.
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/christians.in.niger.struggle.to.rebuild.70.churches.destroyed.by.islamic.militants/60160.htm [christiantoday.com]
http://www.ibtimes.com/indonesia-muslim-christian-conflict-aceh-churches-destroyed-sectarian-tension-rises-2146304 [ibtimes.com]
http://shoebat.com/2014/01/24/muslims-destroy-248-christian-churches/ [shoebat.com]
http://www.wnd.com/2015/01/nearly-200-christian-churches-destroyed-in-surge-of-violence/ [wnd.com]
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/16/destroy-all-churches/#content [washingtontimes.com]
http://imb.org/updates/storyview.aspx?StoryID=9450 [imb.org]
http://www.csw.org.uk/2015/10/27/news/2844/article.htm [csw.org.uk]
This last one makes no mention of Muslims or of Islam - but I suspect that Muslims are responsible.
http://myocn.net/albanian-government-attempts-destruction-of-orthodox-church/ [myocn.net]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @07:14PM
> The facts won't be changed, of course, just because you refuse to believe them.
Ditto.
The facts remain that 99.999% of muslims haven't hurt anyone. Tthat you can find instances of some muslims hurting people doesn't change that fact. Just like I can find plenty of cases of white nationalists hurting people in the US that doesn't say anything meaningful about white americans.
> This last one makes no mention of Muslims or of Islam - but I suspect that Muslims are responsible.
Of course you suspect that. Do you even hear yourself?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 14 2015, @07:26PM
And, where did you pull that 99.9% figure from? Your ass, of course. BTW - the "innocents" are not as innocent as you would like to believe. People are sending various kinds of support to the terrorists. Some of the terror organizations are awash in cash. Imams around the world are telling their followers that they should send donations to this or that terror group. That increases the number of terrorists by an order of magnitude, at leas.
And, when you get down to it, you still haven't explained how Islam and Sharia law are compatible with any other religion, government, or justice system in the world. Fact is, Islam is INCOMPATIBLE with any other civilization or culture in existence today.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @07:49PM
> And, where did you pull that 99.9% figure from?
It is a figure of speech. You are welcome, encouraged, in fact demanded to prove otherwise. If that's not an accurate representation then lets see you come up with a number that does meet your high standard of accuracy. Otherwise quit running your mouth.
> you still haven't explained how Islam and Sharia law are compatible with any other religion,
Really? Those lines of scripture weren't enough for you?
Oh I get it, you are just running in circles. The religion is compatible, except what the scriptures says, oh the people are incompatible except what the people actually do, oh the minority is incompatible because the minority defines the majorty, oh the religion is incompatible execpt what the scriptures say....
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 14 2015, @08:16PM
Circles? Yeah, maybe. Once again, the religion and political structure are composed of PEOPLE. We have our own documents, which include the constitution of the United States. Our elected officials claim to support and/or represent that document, but so many of those officials desecrate that document with every breath they take. Bush and Cheney for example.
You want a quote on the number of incompatible Muslims? Take your pick -
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2004/08/muslim-american-activist-fifty-percent-of-muslims-worldwide-support-extremists [jihadwatch.org]
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm [thereligionofpeace.com]
The site most agreeable to your claim says that 7 percent of Muslims support extremists:
https://encounteringislam.org/misconceptions [encounteringislam.org]
Then again, maybe the results vary with how the question is posed:
http://www.westernjournalism.com/shocking-new-study-reveals-just-how-many-muslims-support-isis-and-its-frightening/ [westernjournalism.com]
And, at the end of the day, logic and rationalism plays little if any role in the debate. Islam plays on poeple's fears, superstitions, and lack of education. Much of Islam denies education to women, and restricts the education of men, for a reason. The uneducated and ignorant are much more malleable than educated and sophisticated people. The Catholic church knew that, and capitalized on it for hundreds of years.
Islam is incompatible with English Common Law, Napoleonic Law, the Code of Hammurabi, Roman or Greek law - every legal system known to the western world. Islam is incompatible with every form of government that the western world has ever experimented with. Incompatible. One has to choose to be blind to fail to understand that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @09:33PM
> Circles? Yeah, maybe.
No, definitely. I can't believe you wrote that and still went on to do it.
> You want a quote on the number of incompatible Muslims?
Nice pivot from harming someone to "support for extremism"
First off, numbers for actually harming someone - murder rate in the US 5 per 100,000, in Indonesia the largest muslim country 1 per 100,000. Turks, Egyptans, Malayasians 2-4 per 100,000. Catholic Brazil 15+ per 100,000, Catholic Venezuela 50+ per 100,000.
1 per 100,000 that works out to 99.998%
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/15/no-islam-isn-t-inherently-violent-and-the-math-proves-it.html [thedailybeast.com]
Now to address your pivot, what you left out are comparisons.
Bombing and other attacks intentionally aimed at civilians:
Americans: 46% never justified
5 largest muslim countries: 74-86% never justified
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0223/p09s01-coop.html [csmonitor.com]
When is it justified for individuals or small groups to target and kill civilans
Israel: 73% never justified
Palestine: 84% never justified
http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/MideastViolence010808Graph4.gif [gallup.com]
When is it justified for the military to target and kill civilians:
American Muslims: 78% never, 21% sometimes
American Protestants: 38% never, 58% sometimes
When is it justified for small groups to target and kill civlians?
American Muslims: 89% never, 11% sometimes
American Protestants: 71% never, 26% sometimes
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/08/a-fascinating-look-at-the-political-views-of-muslim-americans/242975/ [theatlantic.com]
So even by your very own criteria, islam is more compatible than you are. Time for you to save the world and convert.
> And, at the end of the day, logic and rationalism plays little if any role in the debate.
you know yourself so well.
> Islam is incompatible...
blah blah blah more proof by assertion. All that is you wishing as hard as you can for something that isn't true. Because if you are wrong you'd have to face some harsh realities about yourself.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 14 2015, @09:43PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deera_Square [wikipedia.org]
The worst excesses of the Christian religion, from all of history, distilled, and carried out on a weekly basis. All the worst crimes of Judaism, ditto. Plus, perhaps, all of the worst of Hinduism. Sanctimonious and fearful superstitious fools, murdering people by the scores and the hundreds, to protect their false beliefs in some crazy moon god. And, they will kill every man, woman, and child on earth to protect their belief.
It is incompatible with any other way of life.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @10:23PM
Lol. You are such a cliche. "Moon god" lololol.
Yeah public executions. What other country executes people? Oh yeah.
You could not have made a stronger capitulation as to the emptiness of your arguments if you had just stood up like a man said you were wrong.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @10:26PM
Well, 99.999, if you have 1 billion people who are muslim, that would mean 999,990,000 are non-violent normal people going about their lives, like you do. 10,000 are violent extremists.
I doubt there are that many violent [muslim] extremists actually. Like all those ISIS/ISIL people, they don't really seem to have any interest in islam, and more seem like those warlords or child soldier armies that run around in africa.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 15 2015, @05:03AM
If that be true - then why has Islam not crushed those war lords for defaming the real Islam? And, where do those dirt poor war lords get the weapons used to torture, rape and kill their fellow Africans? I suggest that the rest of Islam is quite happy to see those apostates punishing the infidels. That whole "enemy of mine enemy" thing, with Chrisians, Hindus, animists, and the worshippers of other gods being the greater enemy.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday November 15 2015, @03:34AM
And why are the ~80% who are peaceful people not doing something to restrain the ~20% who are not?
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday November 15 2015, @03:26AM
All religions go through an early stage where they coerce membership and kill off the competition. All other major religions have outgrown this and learned to get along in a world where they're not the sole option. But Islam never outgrew its coercive stage, and seems to be built to ensure that it never will.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Sunday November 15 2015, @08:07PM
It is going through this right now. Muslims are being murdered by other Muslims MUCH more than any other group.
Also, I would like to point out that no religion has fully outgrown this. There are radical members in every group. Christianity, Judaism, hell even Buddhism!! Muslims have the stage right now for at least a few reasons: their countries have been messed with by almost all foreign powers so they have a lot of animosity especially towards the "West", and they are the largest religious group in the world so by default they have more of an impact.
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday November 15 2015, @08:31PM
Being messed with in the present doesn't explain over a thousand years of Muslims behaving in more or less the same way.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Monday November 16 2015, @09:42PM
The Roman Empire, the Crusades, etc.
Long running feud that has mostly occurred in the Middle East. For a while they were able to take over some of Europe. "Repeat after me, stereotypes are bad!" While they are sometimes statistically valid over a population, applying them in every situation with a group of people is 100% going to result in problems.
You claim they all want to kill us, so the solution is something something all Muslims something something. Doesn't much matter what you choose, its not the right course. Welcoming arms for all? Silly idea, some will be extremists and use that chance to hurt you. Violence and segregation for all? Silly idea, some are great people who will become bitter at being treated unfairly.
ENDGAME: The world isn't black and white, and it takes courage to try and approach each and every situation with an open mind. That doesn't mean acceptance, that means being open to the idea that each person could be good or bad and to try and act accordingly.
~Tilting at windmills~