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posted by martyb on Friday November 20 2015, @01:40PM   Printer-friendly

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/11/20/456758931/radisson-hotel-in-mali-attacked-gunmen-take-170-hostages

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34877069

Malian special forces have entered the Radisson Blu Hotel in Mali's capital, Bamako, to end a siege by gunmen who had been holding 170 people hostage. The gunmen stormed the US-owned hotel, which is popular with foreign businesses and airline crews, shooting and shouting "God is great!" in Arabic. Malian state TV is reporting that 80 people have now been freed. At least three people are reported to have been killed in the siege that started around 07:00 GMT. Six staff from Turkish Airlines were at the hotel when it was attacked, and a Chinese guest told China's state news agency Xinhua he was among about seven Chinese tourists trapped there. A French presidential source said French citizens were also at the Radisson Blu Hotel, Reuters news agency reports.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali
Official languages: French


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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2015, @02:50PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2015, @02:50PM (#265826)

    E. Fight for your own values and country.

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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2015, @03:09PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2015, @03:09PM (#265835)

    That is choosing A or B.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday November 20 2015, @03:29PM

    by Thexalon (636) on Friday November 20 2015, @03:29PM (#265844)

    If you choose to fight, your options are:
    A. Fight for your country. Congratulations, you are now a war criminal for acts of torture and sexual violence.
    B. Fight for your values. Congratulations, you are now an Islamic terrorist.
    C. Fight for anything else. Congratulations, you are now dead.

    It's easy to say "fight for your values and your country" in the abstract, but when those two are not aligned with each other and you are caught in the middle of a war, it's not as simple as all that. To bring things closer to home, let's say that somebody from $WRONG_PARTY was elected president of your country, declared martial law, and arrested or killed anyone seen as a potential political leader from an opposition party (e.g. including legislators, judges, regional/provincial/state governors, mayors, that sort of thing). Now, maybe you'd want to resist that with force because Freedom, but by far the most organized and powerful resistance movement in your area is the local chapter of the KKK. Do you consider dealing with the KKK in charge rather than the now-tyrannical government? I think you might. So might anybody.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Ezber Bozmak on Friday November 20 2015, @04:02PM

      by Ezber Bozmak (764) on Friday November 20 2015, @04:02PM (#265850)

      > Do you consider dealing with the KKK in charge rather than the now-tyrannical government?

      Which is exactly what happened in Iran. The KKK are a bunch of religious nutjobs (they were founded on christmas eve by a bunch of methodists, they burn crosses and they claim to be [adl.org] churches [splcenter.org]). The idealists in Iran made common cause with the religious nutjobs to overthrow the repressive shaw. But after they won, the nutjobs fought the idealists and the idealists lost.

      Real life is way more complicated than the people posting tough talk from their mom's basements realize.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2015, @04:54PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2015, @04:54PM (#265867)

      ...but by far the most organized and powerful resistance movement in your area is the local chapter of the KKK.

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday November 20 2015, @05:13PM

        by Thexalon (636) on Friday November 20 2015, @05:13PM (#265874)

        Ok, you don't think it would be the KKK? Here are some other options:
        - The Michigan Militia and similar groups.
        - The Bloods, the Crips, or another gang.
        - Aryan Nation and other Neo-Nazi organizations.
        - A cult with a similar apocalyptic outlook as the Branch Davidians of Waco Texas.
        - Church of Scientology.

        Remember, you're talking about finding an entity with no connection to the government, with weapons and enough organization that they can function as a pseudo-government in whatever areas they manage to control. In this hypothetical world, there are no cops who are understood to be the legitimate expression of the will of the people. There's the government army, and there's everybody who wants to fight them (most likely splintered into hundreds or thousands of different groups), and there's all the civilians caught in the middle.

        The groups that would have the most success fighting the government are not going to be nice people: For example, the Roman Catholic Church is big and organized, but isn't armed and thus can't be much help militarily. You and your neighbors with AR-15s may be well-armed, but you are not very well organized and serious conflicts will likely erupt over who should be in charge - especially when you meet up with the resistance from the next neighborhood over and there's a question about whether your neighborhood leaders are in charge or the other neighborhood's leaders are in charge, especially when you're attacked and now there's a question about whether to save your neighborhood or the other neighborhood.

        That makes my "Government or the KKK?" scenario not as far-fetched as it sounds. As a sibling post pointed out, many Iranians were faced with that kind of decision in the late 1970's.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2015, @05:30PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 20 2015, @05:30PM (#265878)

          That makes my "Government or the KKK?" scenario not as far-fetched as it sounds.

          The KKK are neither organized nor powerful. They are mostly a bunch of backwoods hicks mouthing off to each other about how they are going to run the world someday. The fact that you do think they are organized and powerful speaks volumes about your tenuous grasp on reality. I hope this clarifies things for you.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday November 20 2015, @05:36PM

            by Thexalon (636) on Friday November 20 2015, @05:36PM (#265880)

            In a crisis, 50 well-armed people in the backwoods loyal to an Imperial Wizard is a more effective fighting force than most people or organizations can put together. For the sole reason that everybody else is even weaker.

            --
            The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
            • (Score: 2) by Alfred on Friday November 20 2015, @06:55PM

              by Alfred (4006) on Friday November 20 2015, @06:55PM (#265906) Journal
              Tell me more about this "Imperial Wizard." The FSM hasn't come through with the number of strippers I was led to believe were coming.