SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
from the they-will-just-have-to-hubble-along dept.
From Nature.com:
Hawaii's supreme court has ruled that the construction permit for the Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) on top of the mountain Mauna Kea is invalid. The 2 December decision is a major blow to the international consortium backing the US$1.5-billion telescope, and a win for the Native Hawaiians who have protested against its construction on what they regard as a sacred summit.
And the top reddit comment on the article, which I found neatly summed up the situation.
I spent time in Hawaii and talked to locals that were born and raised there about this issue. Its polarizing.
People against it brought up the need for spirituality and respect for the Hawaiian culture lost over hundred of years of Western influence.
Argument for the telescope, however, claimed that building it would do nothing but respect their history. How did the ancient Hawaiians get to the island? They used the stars. It was "in their blood" to understand the heavens. Most of the those complaining are young disenfranchised people struggling in one of the crappiest economies in America.
Of course this could be a generalization based on second hand observation.
As for me, as big as these telescopes are, they look like ants on top of these massive volcanoes. Ruining the scenery is nonsense.
We covered the Groundbreaking for World's Largest Telescope nearly a month ago.
(Score: 5, Informative) by J053 on Friday December 04 2015, @11:57PM
Here's some background. The University of Hawai'i (UH) and the Thirty Meter Telescope consortium (TMT) applied for a Conservation District Use Permit (CDUP) before the Hawai'i Board of land and natural Resources (BLNR) back in 2010. The CDUP is needed because the entire summit area (50+ acres) of Maunakea is designated as a Conservation District, even though it is leased to UH as a Science Preserve. Several native Hawai'ian groups objected to the granting of the permit on various (religious, environmental, cultural) grounds. The objectors requested a contested case hearing before the Board (in accordance with Hawai'i law and BLNR's procedures). BLNR, (apparently) on advice from UH, decided to go ahead and grant the permit, but with a rather strange provision that construction could not begin until the contested case hearing was held ("First the Verdict, then the Trial!").
The opponents sued to block the permit on the (perfectly reasonable) grounds that the procedures were not properly followed. A Circuit Court of Appeals eventually sided with BLNR, and TMT started site preparation activities - this is what sparked the protests earlier this year. The appeal made its way to the State Supreme Court, which voided the Circuit Court ruling and remanded the case - specifying that procedures must be done in the proper order.
So, now UH and TMT can re-apply for their permit, the opponents will request a contested case hearing, and (probably) the permit will ultimately be granted. Complicating the picture is the fact that the master lease for the summit site expires in 2033 - unless TMT can begin construction (which is expected to take up to 5 years for construction of the building and assembly and testing of the telescope and all its associated optics and components) within the next year or so, they will have less than 10 years of guaranteed operation - which seems like too little for a $1+ Billion telescope facility.
I'm personally in favor of TMT, and completely against blocking a very interesting science facility because of "religion", but I have to admit that UH and TMT have handled this whole thing very poorly from the beginning. (I also work for one of the other observatories on Maunakea - I'll be retired before TMT comes online, so it doesn't affect me personally, but I'd hate for the local folks who are interested in STEM careers to miss out on a great opportunity like this).
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 05 2015, @12:11AM
> I'm personally in favor of TMT, and completely against blocking a very interesting science facility because of "religion"
If it helps, don't think of it as "religion" think of it as opposition to yet another manifestation of colonialism. 20 years ago the US formally apologized for illegally overthrowing the kingdom of Hawaii. [wikipedia.org] But actions speak louder than words and telescope construction on Mauna Kea (I don't know why but your 'Maunakea' typo really got under my skin) has been an especially visible form of the hypocrisy of that apology. If we are going to claim to be respectful of people and ashamed of historical injustices then we have to walk that walk even when it means we don't get what we want.
(Score: 2) by J053 on Saturday December 05 2015, @01:52AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 05 2015, @03:12AM
I guess things have changed in the last two years.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 05 2015, @06:49PM
They have [hawaii.edu].
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 05 2015, @03:39AM
> If it helps, don't think of it as "religion" think of it as opposition to yet another manifestation of colonialism.
No, let's think of it for what it is, leveraging religious superstition for extortion. Like it or not, Hawaii is a state no matter how it came into existence, and the science reserve is a state trust. The state can do whatever the fuck it wants to with the land as long as state officials deem it worthwhile, no matter how long and loud the SJWs whine. At present (and as usual), the state is bending over backwards for a handful of militant Hawaiians who are using "religious" claims to push their own political agenda, and the SJWs around the world are falling for it. Apologize for colonialism? Why not for electricity, medicine, education, sanitation and technology while you're at it?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by K_benzoate on Saturday December 05 2015, @06:37AM
Apologize for colonialism? Why not for electricity, medicine, education, sanitation and technology while you're at it?
SJWs probably don't consider those things to be improvements over the way of life the people had before. It's the same racist "noble savage" mentality of two centuries ago coming into fashion again.
Climate change is real and primarily caused by human activity.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday December 07 2015, @05:10PM
Like it or not, Hawaii is a state no matter how it came into existence,
Correct, and as a State, it's inhabitants are entitled to to their constitutionally protected due process rights.
We have this thing called freedom of religion here. We may disagree with it, but if the law of the land requires a contested hearing then a contested hearing must be provided.
(Score: 2) by lentilla on Saturday December 05 2015, @07:31AM
I'd hate for the local folks who are interested in STEM careers to miss out on a great opportunity like this
You are failing to see the upside of this. STEM is hard. You have to know; like; facts 'n stuff. And you can't argue your way out of a tight spot when the facts say otherwise, either.
So, if you happen to be counselling young people as to a profitable career, now they have another option. In the past, you might have suggested law. Now you can also suggest religion as an alternative. Better yet: religion and law.
Simply adjust reality to how you'd like it to be, find some kind of legal argument, and profit. No pesky realities (gravity, laws of physics, that kind of thing) need get in your way.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday December 05 2015, @09:03AM
they will have less than 10 years of guaranteed operation - which seems like too little for a $1+ Billion telescope facility.
Sometimes you have to walk away, start looking for a site in Chile or Peru or where ever the second best location.
If the natives are demanding religion over knowledge there is no amount of arguing that will allow the safe installation and operation of that Billion dollar investment. No point in putting it someplace you need armed guards to keep the Luddites away.
Those who want to pursue STEM need to get off those islands into the world of serious people. My sister raised two boys that went on to be rocket scientists (yes, I'm serious) and she sent both of them off the Islands to do it.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.