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posted by martyb on Tuesday December 08 2015, @11:28AM   Printer-friendly
from the handouts-instead-of-gov't-jobs-or-worker-owned-cooperatives dept.

Common Dreams reports

As a way to improve living standards and boosts its economy, the nation of Finland is moving closer towards offering[1] all of its adult citizens a basic permanent income of approximately 800 euros per month.

[...] The monthly allotment would replace other existing social benefits, but is an idea long advocated for by progressive-minded social scientists and economists as a solution--counter-intuitive as it may first appear at first--that actually decreases government expenditures while boosting both productivity, quality of life, and unemployment.

[...] The basic income proposal, put forth by the Finnish Social Insurance Institution, known as KELA, would see every adult citizen "receive 800 euros ($876) a month, tax free, that would replace existing benefits. Full implementation would be preceded by a pilot stage, during which the basic income payout would be 550 euros and some benefits would remain."

[...] Under the current welfare system, a person gets less in benefits if they take up temporary, low-paying or part-time work--which can result in an overall loss of income.

[...] As Quartz reports, previous experiments with a basic income have shown promising results:

Everyone in the Canadian town of Dauphin was given a stipend from 1974 to 1979, and though there was a drop in working hours,[PDF] this was mainly because men spent more time in school and women took longer maternity leaves. Meanwhile, when thousands of unemployed people in Uganda were given unsupervised grants of twice their monthly income, working hours increased by 17% and earnings increased by 38%.

[1] Link to The Independent in TFA was redundant IMO.

...and, before anyone shouts SOCIALISM!, this is actually Liberal Democracy (of the Bernie Sanders type).

An actual move toward Socialism would subsidize the formation of worker-owned cooperatives. An initiative to do that was floated in 1980. 5 percent of taxes would have gone into a pool (kinda like USA's Social Security fund). The Finns rejected it. Source: Prof. Richard Wolff


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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 08 2015, @02:40PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 08 2015, @02:40PM (#273358)

    Try to realize that the rich are just the top of their own little pyramid scheme. Takes money to make money, if you have enough of it you just get people to do the work and you get the payout. Trump is evidence that even a screwup with lots of money can still be successful.

    You can't eat money, so you need to have a functioning society where people can provide for each other. This pyramid system we have is causing anxiety and anger everywhere, and it is breaking down as the base of the pyramid keeps getting squeezed. But you drank the koolaid along with many others so its gonna be a miserable time sorting it all out.

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  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 08 2015, @06:38PM

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday December 08 2015, @06:38PM (#273550) Homepage Journal

    Get a clue. This is one of the richest nations in the world. Our poor are better off than 90% of the rest of the world. All your little rant boils down to is "Mommy, Timmy got three cookies and I only got two!" Yeah, greed.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2) by SanityCheck on Friday December 11 2015, @03:18AM

      by SanityCheck (5190) on Friday December 11 2015, @03:18AM (#274789)

      It's more like: "Mommy I only got 2 cookies and Timmy got the cookie factory, 2 yachts, and an island."

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday December 11 2015, @02:14PM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday December 11 2015, @02:14PM (#274967) Homepage Journal

        Scope is irrelevant. Envy and greed are envy and greed.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @06:30PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @06:30PM (#275816)

          Scope is entirely relevant. You can't have a fair and just society with that kind of wealth disparity.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday December 13 2015, @06:49PM

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Sunday December 13 2015, @06:49PM (#275818) Homepage Journal

            You can't have a fair and just society if you're constantly stealing from those who would better themselves. Wealth disparity only makes a difference to those driven by envy.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @02:41AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @02:41AM (#275977)

              Money is power. People with excessive amounts of money consequently have excessive amounts of power, you can't have a fair society when the rich are able to buy the laws they want. Some wealth disparity is fine, and likely necessary (at least for as long as we need money), however the degree of wealth disparity we have today is just obscene. Is it really fair to have millions live on the breadline just so a few can have even more multiples of what they are able to spend in a lifetime?

              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday December 14 2015, @11:24AM

                by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday December 14 2015, @11:24AM (#276063) Homepage Journal

                Is it really fair to have millions live on the breadline just so a few can have even more multiples of what they are able to spend in a lifetime?

                Absolutely as long as they came by it honestly. Being poor is almost always a deliberate if foolish choice and people should not be protected from the consequences of their foolishness. Now if you want to institute schooling standards to teach them simple things like living within a budget, saving money, acquiring skills that will make them money, and making wise investments, I'm all for that; our public school systems are all but useless in training you for later life right now.

                I'm no bigger a fan than you of people buying laws but that can be fixed much easier than poverty.

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.