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posted by CoolHand on Thursday December 17 2015, @06:41PM   Printer-friendly
from the un-reaffirming-faith-in-humanity dept.

The Economist is carrying a free story (free except for the annoying subscribe pop-up) about a French slave trading ship that crashed into a reef and sunk just off of the tiny island named "Île de Sable" on July 31st 1761.

The Island is a tiny mountain top of sand 500 miles east of Madagascar. The island was subsequently re-named Tromelin Island (google map link) for reasons explained in the article. Zoom in and out again to see just how desolate a place this still is.

The shipwrecked French crew, built a boat out of the wreckage of their ship, with the help of some of the slaves. The boat they built, for lack of materials, could accommodate only about half of the people stranded. So all 123 Frenchmen climbed into the boat, left the 88 remaining slaves (out of an original 160 or more), and sailed off toward Madagascar, with a promise to return.

The article is the story of how that promise was not kept, not entirely the fault of the French First Officer, who pleaded for a ship to rescue the slaves, but was rebuffed at every turn. Too busy worrying about the British fleet was the excuse.

Finally in November 1776, 15 years after the shipwreck, with the British Fleet otherwise distracted, a French ship arrived and rescued the last seven remaining survivors (all women except a 8 month old baby boy) from the island.

The story is an interesting read, and documents how easy it was to be callously abandoned in that day and age. (Not nearly as callous as being sold into slavery by your own disaffected relatives, mind you!).


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  • (Score: 4, Touché) by tangomargarine on Thursday December 17 2015, @07:00PM

    by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday December 17 2015, @07:00PM (#277826)

    inter-tribal warfare != "by your own disaffected relatives"

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @07:32PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @07:32PM (#277841)

    but aren't we all relatives to some extent ...

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @07:40PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @07:40PM (#277844)

      Do your research. The African tribal chiefs traded his own people for use as slaves in return for goods. The roots of slavery go back to at least 1800 B.C. Don't blame it all on the whites, it was in use way before.

      • (Score: 2) by n1 on Thursday December 17 2015, @08:03PM

        by n1 (993) on Thursday December 17 2015, @08:03PM (#277860) Journal

        Participating in slavery and/or genocide is abhorrent and disgraceful regardless of how many steps are involved and the nuances of 'who started it'.

        Slavery exists today as it did before America and days of European Empires. It's all the same, it's disgusting and people of all races and nationalities have been complicit in it at some level. We may be ignorant, naive, apathetic or just powerless, but slavery continues to modernize and adapt to advances technology and social events.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @08:09PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @08:09PM (#277861)

        Exactly, it's no less abhorrent but stop acting like all the colored people were living in harmony for millenia before white men showed up and invented it.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @08:28PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @08:28PM (#277876)

          Nice strawman you've got there.

          • (Score: 3, Touché) by tibman on Thursday December 17 2015, @08:37PM

            by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 17 2015, @08:37PM (#277886)

            What color is it?

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          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:07PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:07PM (#277973)

            It's not really a straw man when so many people forget to take into account nuances like this.

            • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:47PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:47PM (#278001)

              You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

              Anyone who believes that unrelated tribes selling prisoners of war as slaves to europeans means that the slaves are somehow responsible for their own slavement then they must also believe that completely unrelated people of european decent are responsible for buying those slaves and keeping them enslaved. You don't get to assign collective responsibility to all black people simply because they are black and then turn around and the deny that white people directly and collectively benefited from their side of the transaction too.

              Yeah the tribes selling prisoners as slaves were scum, but that doesn't exculpate the people buying those slaves, keeping them and breeding them so that their children and their children's children were born into slavery by one iota. Not one iota. Two wrongs do not make a right.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @12:37AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @12:37AM (#278023)

                means that the slaves are somehow responsible for their own slavement

                This is the real straw man.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @01:46AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @01:46AM (#278040)

                  > This is the real straw man.

                  Its the logical conclusion of getting worked up about "disaffected relatives."

                  In the US there were only two groups - slave owners and slaves. If the fault wasn't with the slave owners then it must lie on the slaves themselves.

                  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Friday December 18 2015, @03:33AM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 18 2015, @03:33AM (#278061) Journal

                    In the US there were only two groups - slave owners and slaves. If the fault wasn't with the slave owners then it must lie on the slaves themselves.

                    Slaves from Africa didn't travel to the US and then get enslaved. You ignore the third group in Africa doing the enslaving. Then there's other groups in the US who had nothing to do with slavery.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @03:49AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @03:49AM (#278071)

                      > Slaves from Africa didn't travel to the US and then get enslaved.

                      So what? Once they are here that's all that matters.

                      > Then there's other groups in the US who had nothing to do with slavery.

                      Thank you captain obvious. Now say something that is relevant.

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 18 2015, @10:16PM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 18 2015, @10:16PM (#278374) Journal
                        I said two things that were relevant, Mr. False Dilemma.
                • (Score: 2) by kurenai.tsubasa on Friday December 18 2015, @03:47AM

                  by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Friday December 18 2015, @03:47AM (#278069) Journal

                  In order to sort out what the real straw man is, I must recommend the book Things Fall Apart [barnesandnoble.com] by Chinua Achebe. Granted, it takes place in a later era, but it does give some insight into authentic African culture. It contains some folklore as well. (Well, how is folklore not part of culture?)

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @03:53AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @03:53AM (#278073)

                    Yeah. No one is going to go read some random book just because you said they should. If you can't be bothered to summarize what about the book applies to the topic at hand, fuck I can't even be bothered to click that link. All you did was post to make yourself feel good.

                  • (Score: 2) by kurenai.tsubasa on Friday December 18 2015, @03:54AM

                    by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Friday December 18 2015, @03:54AM (#278074) Journal

                    Holy crap. Hate to reply to myself. There's a movie version! [youtube.com] I'm not sure what to think of this, given that African culture is mostly oral tradition. At any rate, interesting.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @02:47PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @02:47PM (#278201)

                The bottom line is at the time in the 18th century, this was accepted practice. Doesn't make it "right", but at that time it was considered "right". While I, and most everybody, finds it abhorrent, those involved found it business as usual.

                What current practices that we consider as normal or "right" today will our descendants find abhorrent in 100+ years? Livestock Factories? Animal Testing on Primates?

                Most people today don't even think about these practices, or prefer to ignore any complicity they have in them (eating cheap chicken, etc.).

                It was the same in 1761 for right or wrong. Arguing who sold who into slavery is just silly since it won't solve anything. I would argue there is no single race that can be considered perfect.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @02:25PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @02:25PM (#278189)

            Nice fallacy fallacy you've got there.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @08:22PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @08:22PM (#277871)

        > Do your research.

        Go google it!

        On the internet that's how you say "I'm wrong but my ego is too fragile to admit it!"

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @10:02PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @10:02PM (#277928)

          Go google it!

          On the internet that's how you say "I'm wrong but my ego is too fragile to admit it!"

          It can also mean "I'm not going to do your homework for you!" Honestly, if you are so pig-headed that you refuse to educate yourself, then why should we even bother to engage you? You do realize that 90% of the responsibility to learn is on the student, right?

          • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @10:14PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @10:14PM (#277939)

            > It can also mean "I'm not going to do your homework for you!"

            Then why are you posting trying to convince us of anything in the first place?

            > You do realize that 90% of the responsibility to learn is on the student, right?

            Ok, this student just took that responsibility and learned that there is zero evidence for your claims.
            So now its settled. You were full of bullshit all along.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @04:45PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @04:45PM (#278251)

              Then why are you posting trying to convince us of anything in the first place?

              Ok, this student just took that responsibility and learned that there is zero evidence for your claims.
              So now its settled. You were full of bullshit all along.

              Protip: there are at least a few people that post as AC. Neither are we some collective hive mind. Honestly, I shouldn't really even need to explain this.

          • (Score: 2) by el_oscuro on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:26PM

            by el_oscuro (1711) on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:26PM (#277989)

            You mean something like this?

            http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Historical+revisionism [lmgtfy.com]

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      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:34PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:34PM (#277995)

        Do my research for me.

        FTFY

        Why is it everyone else's job to prove you right?