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posted by CoolHand on Thursday December 17 2015, @06:41PM   Printer-friendly
from the un-reaffirming-faith-in-humanity dept.

The Economist is carrying a free story (free except for the annoying subscribe pop-up) about a French slave trading ship that crashed into a reef and sunk just off of the tiny island named "Île de Sable" on July 31st 1761.

The Island is a tiny mountain top of sand 500 miles east of Madagascar. The island was subsequently re-named Tromelin Island (google map link) for reasons explained in the article. Zoom in and out again to see just how desolate a place this still is.

The shipwrecked French crew, built a boat out of the wreckage of their ship, with the help of some of the slaves. The boat they built, for lack of materials, could accommodate only about half of the people stranded. So all 123 Frenchmen climbed into the boat, left the 88 remaining slaves (out of an original 160 or more), and sailed off toward Madagascar, with a promise to return.

The article is the story of how that promise was not kept, not entirely the fault of the French First Officer, who pleaded for a ship to rescue the slaves, but was rebuffed at every turn. Too busy worrying about the British fleet was the excuse.

Finally in November 1776, 15 years after the shipwreck, with the British Fleet otherwise distracted, a French ship arrived and rescued the last seven remaining survivors (all women except a 8 month old baby boy) from the island.

The story is an interesting read, and documents how easy it was to be callously abandoned in that day and age. (Not nearly as callous as being sold into slavery by your own disaffected relatives, mind you!).


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  • (Score: 4, Touché) by edIII on Thursday December 17 2015, @10:27PM

    by edIII (791) on Thursday December 17 2015, @10:27PM (#277946)

    might ease white guilt

    Respectfully as possible, fuck you .

    Unless you can wheel out an example of 'whitey' in a wheel chair, looking all of his 300+ years old, you're not going to see anybody but deluded 'white' social justice warriors feeling the guilt associated with their self-hate.

    I'm a 40+ year old 'white' boy. I don't feel guilty for jack diddly shit, especially, anything that happened before I was born, had nothing to do with, never even agreed upon, and should only be guilty by association because of your racist views. I've never for one second given into racism, either receiving it, giving it, or condoning it around me. Not starting today either.

    So because of the color of my skin, I'm guilty? That implies accountability, and my friend, you better bring a whole lot of muscle and firepower if you think you're holding me accountable for OUR ancestors that admittedly happened to be assholes. I'll hold you immediately accountable for being an asshole yourself.

    Stop being a deluded shit, and holding children accountable for the sins of their parents, grandparents, great grandparents, great great grandparents, and so on. When you do so, you're just as pathetic as all of those in the Middle East contributing to the destruction and strife in the world, over stuff our ancestors did 2,000 years ago.

    Just curious, but what is the statute of limitations? How long must people with 'white' looking skin be judged so harshly by you? Another 100? 1000? When does it finally end?

    As for revisionist history, slavery has been practiced for a very very long time, by many races in our history. So I guess I can walk up to an Egyptian and ask them about their 'brown' guilt, and if it has gone away yet? I mean, those pyramids are still standing today! By the pharaoh's beard, how long must we suffer such memories and unacceptable triggers? Let's pull them down brick, by brick...

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  • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @10:45PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @10:45PM (#277955)

    > you're not going to see anybody but deluded 'white' social justice warriors feeling the guilt associated with their self-hate.
    > I'm a 40+ year old 'white' boy. I don't feel guilty for jack diddly shit

    Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:09PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:09PM (#277975)

      Wow, yes, no one can genuinely disagree. If they disagree, that means they actually agree.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:24PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:24PM (#277987)

        He didn't just disagree, he vociferously denied his own culpability when no one accused him of culpability in the first place.

        That's what the Shakespeare quote means my illiterate friend.

        • (Score: 2) by edIII on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:30PM

          by edIII (791) on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:30PM (#277993)

          He didn't just disagree, he vociferously denied his own culpability when no one accused him of culpability in the first place.

          Bull-fucking-shit.

          The AC said, 'white guilt' in response to actions that happened hundreds of years ago. I'm white. Were you meaning there are other white people around today that were the targets? I'm white, but I'm not being accused? He was using a rather large brush saying 'white'. That's a lot of people.

          Revisionist history is you believing that a couple of hours ago, that nobody accused me of having guilt over my skin. You can yourself incorrect by simply SCROLLING UP THE PAGE.

          --
          Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:54PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 17 2015, @11:54PM (#278003)

            > The AC said, 'white guilt' in response to actions that happened hundreds of years ago. I'm white.

            You are the one decided to apply the term white guilt to yourself. If you really believed you have no guilt then that term would have no more meaning to you than it would to a native of Poland. The innocent have no guilt.

            • (Score: 2) by edIII on Friday December 18 2015, @06:45AM

              by edIII (791) on Friday December 18 2015, @06:45AM (#278105)

              You are the one decided to apply the term white guilt to yourself.

              Are you mental?

              I decided? Somebody else literally stated that whites possessed guilt. If you happen to strongly identify, and be identified with, that particular skin pigmentation it's entirely reasonable to conclude the author was stating it was about you.

              Your protestations are inane, and worthless. Keep trying though.

              Why don't you demonstrate how I could reasonably conclude it wasn't about me?

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              Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @03:56AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @03:56AM (#278077)

            > actions that happened hundreds of years ago.

            Are you unaware of when slavery was abolished? Hint, it was less than 2 hundred years ago. Quite a bit less, in fact.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Friday December 18 2015, @06:41AM

              by edIII (791) on Friday December 18 2015, @06:41AM (#278103)

              Immaterial. It doesn't matter if happened a couple hundred seconds before I was born. I will not be held accountable for actions of others, nor forcible grouped with them, simply because we share a range of skin pigmentation.

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              Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @07:36PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @07:36PM (#278318)

                I will not be held accountable for actions of others, nor forcible grouped with them, simply because we share a range of skin pigmentation.

                Interesting. I am just curious what your views are on urban blacks. Also, what about Muslims? What do you think of them?

                • (Score: 2) by edIII on Friday December 18 2015, @08:05PM

                  by edIII (791) on Friday December 18 2015, @08:05PM (#278333)

                  Interesting. I am just curious what your views are on urban blacks. Also, what about Muslims? What do you think of them?

                  I don't.

                  urban blacks: Uhhh, what? What does that even mean? Are you asking how I feel about black people in urban areas? Interesting. I'm just curious as to why you limited it to urban areas? Do you feel black people are different in rural areas? cities? Do you feel I should care about the differences between urban people based on race? Do you feel there are that many differences based on race alone, and not economic or educational circumstances? Curious as well...

                  The answer is, that I have no idea. You've grouped so many people together based on location and skin pigmentation, that I don't see the point.

                  Muslims: Be more specific. Muslims exist everywhere with disparate cultures linked together by a common religion. A Muslim in Asia, while sharing the religion, exists in a different cultural "dialect" (if that's the right word I'm looking for) than a Muslim in Qatar, or Yemen. It would be more meaningful to ask me how I feel about Muslims in Pakistan specifically. Of which, I don't actually have any particular comment at the moment other than I don't appreciate the lack of moderation in the expression of their religion, or how women are treated under it.

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                  Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @07:41PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @07:41PM (#278322)

              Are you unaware of when slavery was abolished? Hint, it was less than 2 hundred years ago. Quite a bit less, in fact.

              In fact, slavery continues even to this very day. True, it no longer involves white plantation owners and black slaves working the fields but it is still an issue, even here in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @12:40AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @12:40AM (#278024)

          You sure throw out a lot of accusations ("illiterate") and seemingly pretend to know what goes on in other people's brains. It's like when theists have accused atheists of really believing in god. If someone says they believe something or feel a certain way, I tend to believe them, because I do not know what goes on in their minds and do not want to be an arrogant fucker.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @01:49AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @01:49AM (#278042)

            I don't pretend to know anything. I take the meaning of your words and arguments at face value.
            If you meant something else then you should have said something else.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @09:23PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 18 2015, @09:23PM (#278360)

              Are you talking to me? Because I was talking about your reply to someone else.

              I take the meaning of your words and arguments at face value.

              "you're not going to see anybody but deluded 'white' social justice warriors feeling the guilt associated with their self-hate.
              "I'm a 40+ year old 'white' boy. I don't feel guilty for jack diddly shit"

              If you actually took that at face value, you would have concluded that he doesn't feel guilty. Instead, you replied with "Methinks the lady doth protest too much." I'm not a mind reader, so I would refrain from pretending to understand the inner workings of someone else's mind. I never did like that quote, or at least not how so many use it, and I certainly don't like it when people pretend to know that someone else has feelings different from what they've stated their feelings are. When someone states that they feel X, I tend to believe them.

              And *chan sites are absolute garbage.

        • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday December 18 2015, @01:23AM

          by aristarchus (2645) on Friday December 18 2015, @01:23AM (#278032) Journal

          That's what the Shakespeare quote means my illiterate friend.

          Whoa! Bro! Word to the wise, the illiterati are not your friend. Watch out for them, the just might sell you into slavery, when all you wanted was a salary, or some salad. Word Salad. Not only doth the lady protest too much, so does the knave!

  • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday December 18 2015, @02:11PM

    by tangomargarine (667) on Friday December 18 2015, @02:11PM (#278183)

    I've never for one second given into racism, either receiving it, giving it, or condoning it around me. Not starting today either.

    I like the rest of your post, but this is a load of bullshit. I challenge you to find a single person on earth over the age of, say, 8 who has never had a racist thought in their entire life. Not acting on it I can buy, but never implicitly condoning it via silence?

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    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 2) by edIII on Friday December 18 2015, @08:38PM

      by edIII (791) on Friday December 18 2015, @08:38PM (#278345)

      I challenge you to find a single person on earth over the age of, say, 8 who has never had a racist thought in their entire life. Not acting on it I can buy, but never implicitly condoning it via silence?

      Don't need to go any farther than my own life for proof. What does implicitly condoning via silence means? I'm anything but silent about it. You're directly saying that I'm lying, of which, I don't particularly appreciate either, but I guess I can understand your reluctance to believe. You don't know me.

      I was rather sheltered as a child, and quite different (Many people claimed I was a genius, even though I spelled it with a J). One day I voluntarily became a nigger. It was in Southern California at the age of 10 while a group of boys had a young black boy against the wall crying. As I was a constant victim of bullying and teasing, I instantly barged through (I was about 120% of weight and height my whole childhood for my age--I was the biggest kid in school by a large margin) pushing some kids away. They were yelling at him calling him a nigger. I put my hands around his shoulders (he was really crying hard), and I said, "Well I'm a nigger too. What of it? You want some fuckers?". They dispersed, as it was absolutely impossible to deal with me with words or violence. All children found that out about me, especially the bullies. Even at that age, my stubbornness and willingness to die in pain, as long as you lost, was ... well.. quite extreme and difficult. I never backed down. Ever. Not even to adults, which caused a lot of problems for me in childhood.

      The kid I protected pushed me away, and then ran. It was about 15 minutes before school got out, and for some reason, I confronted his father when he was picking him up. I can't even imagine the confusion he had with a little white boy confused saying that it was okay his son was a nigger, because he was too. That man spoke to my father while clearly distressed, and I remember a conversation with my dad later on more upsetting than learning Santa Claus wasn't real (only a year before).

      I almost couldn't even believe what my father was telling me. It was just too stupid. You see, I had been made fun of for everything. It made no sense to me. Why make fun of a kid for something he couldn't even control? Not being cool, I can understand. Eating your boogers, I can understand. Being weird, I can understand. Peeing your pants, Totally. Being black? Absolutely not. My mother told me when I was little that people came in different colors because God loved us enough to make us like a box of crayons (I still believe this). My mind vehemently rejected what my father was telling me, as I just couldn't process behavior like that. It hurt, precisely, because he couldn't ever hope to change what the other kids didn't like about him and that deeply resonated with me, as I couldn't apparently changed what kids didn't like about me. Later on that day, my grandfather heard about it. As that cat was out the bag, he asked me, "So what do you think about niggers now?". I promise you, it hurt me as much that day as it hurt that poor boy.

      Since then, I promise you, I've *hated* that behavior so much, so deeply, that I utterly refuse to accept it. Ever. I will never believe that racism is acceptable, neither initially, nor with it being used to ostensibly help (affirmative action). All of my education, all of the cultivation of my intellect, has only created an ever more sophisticate understanding of why it's incorrect and illogical to draw conclusions like that, and why the best thing possible is the utter removal of the illogical behavior from our human race. It's difficult to see beyond stereotypes and your fear. It does take work.

      Judging people by things they can't control, like their genetics and manner of their birth (I have birth defects) is the epitome of stupidity, and I simply cannot abide with it near me. So when that person claims 'white guilt', they're claiming that I put up with it (for even a second) and that I had something do with engendering it in society.

      No. Fuck you all, and your problems with racism. It's all of your problems, not mine. I never started, and my sincerest hope, is that the rest of you fuckers on this planet would just pull your heads out of your asses and just see people. It's literally the truth. We're all just people, and I'm tired of having this conversation, when just to do so, my arguments need to be judged because I'm white, not for their value.

      You guys have real fucking problems too. Trump is ushering in the new age of institutional racism with his attacks on Mexicans, and especially, Muslims. It's a repeat of World War II Germany, and I get to watch the same shit my grandparents watched in horror.

      You're all idiots, and I love you still, but you're all idiots.