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posted by n1 on Monday July 25 2016, @09:59PM   Printer-friendly
from the mad-world dept.

Just prior to retiring, the UK's former Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron arranged for a parliamentary vote on whether the Trident nuclear-armed submarine programme should be renewed.

Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn is opposed to nuclear weapons, having said "I do not believe the threat of mass murder is a legitimate way to go about international relations." However, some Labour MPs support Trident; Corbyn has made this a free vote.

The submarines operate out of a base at Faslane in Scotland. All the MPs belonging to the Scottish National Party, which advocates Scottish independence, are opposed to Trident. One asked the prime minister: "Is she personally prepared to authorise a nuclear strike that can kill a hundred thousand innocent men, women and children?” and her answer was:

Yes. And I have to say to the honourable gentleman the whole point of a deterrent is that our enemies need to know that we would be prepared to use it, unlike some suggestions that we could have a deterrent but not actually be willing to use it, which seem to come from the Labour party frontbench.

One Conservative MP who is opposed to Trident criticised his own party when he said "This is a political weapon aimed rather effectively at the Labour party."

The Guardian has a page with updates on the vote. It has the text of the motion and lists the number of parliamentary seats held by each party (links added by submitter):

Conservatives - 330
Labour - 230
SNP - 54
DUP - 8
Lib Dems - 8

The motion passed by 472 votes to 117. It seems likely that it had the support of nearly all Conservative MPs and a sizable fraction of Labour.


Original Submission

 
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  • (Score: 5, Funny) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Monday July 25 2016, @10:13PM

    by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Monday July 25 2016, @10:13PM (#380072) Journal

    Sorry. It was 2nd series - 30 years ago.

     

    Sir Humphrey: With Trident we could obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe.

    Jim Hacker: I don't want to obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe.

    Sir Humphrey: It's a deterrent.

    Jim Hacker: It's a bluff. I probably wouldn't use it.

    Sir Humphrey: Yes, but they don't know that you probably wouldn't.

    Jim Hacker: They probably do.

    Sir Humphrey: Yes, they probably know that you probably wouldn't. But they can't certainly know.

    Jim Hacker: They probably certainly know that I probably wouldn't.

    Sir Humphrey: Yes, but even though they probably certainly know that you probably wouldn't, they don't certainly know that, although you probably wouldn't, there is no probability that you certainly would.

    --
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  • (Score: 2) by Kell on Monday July 25 2016, @11:39PM

    by Kell (292) on Monday July 25 2016, @11:39PM (#380101)

    What?

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    Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
    • (Score: 4, Touché) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Tuesday July 26 2016, @12:25AM

      by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Tuesday July 26 2016, @12:25AM (#380112) Journal

      Heh.

      I knew this forum still attracted hackers.

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      You're betting on the pantomime horse...
    • (Score: 2) by Common Joe on Tuesday July 26 2016, @03:30AM

      by Common Joe (33) <{common.joe.0101} {at} {gmail.com}> on Tuesday July 26 2016, @03:30AM (#380163) Journal

      What?

      Not sure if you're serious or not, but here's a link [imdb.com]. I hope I'm correctly remembering the episode in question. Both Yes Minister [imdb.com] and its sequel Yes, Prime Minister [imdb.com] are extremely funny and frightening (because rumor has it that it was based on some real life politicians). One of the best shows I have ever seen in my life. It has held up extremely well over the years. There are links on youtube you can find as well.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 26 2016, @03:35AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 26 2016, @03:35AM (#380167)

        Whoooosh! For someone who thinks its one of the best shows ever, you have completely missed it.

        • (Score: 2) by Common Joe on Tuesday July 26 2016, @04:21AM

          by Common Joe (33) <{common.joe.0101} {at} {gmail.com}> on Tuesday July 26 2016, @04:21AM (#380182) Journal

          Not completely missed it. My first words were "Not sure if you're serious or not". Many of us on here on Soylent News have trouble understanding whether someone is joking or not. Text-only communication (as opposed to face-to-face) further hinders that problem.

          The same problem that makes it hard to know if someone is joking also prohibits me from being sure if someone is insulting me. Were you insulting me?

          And since I do have problems telling whether someone is joking, how can a person like me enjoy a show like Yes Minister? After all, it's nothing but a series of dry jokes masked through seriousness. (And within this last paragraph I've written: Am I serious, joking, or insulting you? I'll leave that as a mystery for you to decipher.)

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 26 2016, @09:38PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 26 2016, @09:38PM (#380462)

        It apparently was one of Margaret Thatcher's favorite programs [yes-minister.com].

  • (Score: 2) by driverless on Tuesday July 26 2016, @05:29AM

    by driverless (4770) on Tuesday July 26 2016, @05:29AM (#380199)

    I think there's a much better quote than that, from "The Grand Design":

    Chief Scientific Advisor: Scenario one. Riots in West Berlin, buildings in flames. East German fire brigade crosses the border to help. Would you press the button…? The East German police come with them. The button…?Then some troops, more troops just for riot control, they say. And then the East German troops are replaced by Russian troops. Button…? Then the Russian troops don’t go. They are invited to stay to support civilian administration. The civilian administration closes roads and Tempelhof Airport. Now you press the button?
    Prime Minister: I need time to think about it.
    Chief Scientific Advisor: Scenario 2. The Russian army accidentally on purpose cross the West German frontier. Is that the last resort?
    Prime Minister: No.
    Chief Scientific Advisor: Right, scenario three. Suppose the Russians have invaded and occupied West Germany, Belgium, Holland, France. Suppose their tanks and troops have reached the English Channel, suppose they are poised for invasion. Is that the last resort?
    Prime Minister: No.
    Chief Scientific Advisor: Why not?
    Prime Minister: We’d only fight a nuclear war to defend ourselves. How could we defend ourselves by committing suicide?
    Chief Scientific Advisor: So what is the last resort? Piccadilly? Watford Gap service station? The Reform Club?
    Prime Minister: Maybe the nuclear deterrent makes no sense.
    Chief Scientific Advisor: Yes, it does! If either the Russians or the Americans have the bomb, so the other side must have it too. And we might as well keep Polaris just in case.
    Prime Minister: So what are you proposing?
    Chief Scientific Advisor: Cancel Trident. Spend the £15 billion you save on conventional forces because you wouldn’t really press the button, would you?
    Prime Minister: I might if I had no choice.
    Chief Scientific Advisor: They’ll never put you in a situation where you have no choice.

    • (Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Tuesday July 26 2016, @04:48PM

      by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Tuesday July 26 2016, @04:48PM (#380354) Journal

      Yes. That is the better quote of a scene containing rational arguments - not of a scene satirizing the way this is always, inevitably approved.

      --
      You're betting on the pantomime horse...