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posted by martyb on Thursday July 28 2016, @08:12AM   Printer-friendly
from the wages-getting-pounded dept.

Workers in the UK have suffered the biggest fall in wages among the world's richest countries since the financial crisis, research has suggested.

Between 2007 and 2015 wages in the UK fell by 10.4%, a drop equalled only by Greece, the analysis by the TUC [Trades Union Congress] found.

Women's pay in particular needs to be boosted, the union body said. Women earn on average 19.2% less than men, according to the latest official data.

The Treasury said the TUC's analysis did not fully reflect living standards.

The UK is the joint biggest faller on pay in 29 countries of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) - a forum for wealthy countries who work together to promote financial growth and social wellbeing.

The UK, Greece and Portugal were the only three OECD countries that saw real wages fall, according to the research complied by the TUC.

Source: BBC News


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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by shrewdsheep on Thursday July 28 2016, @09:58AM

    by shrewdsheep (5215) on Thursday July 28 2016, @09:58AM (#381118)

    TLDR.

    One argument in the Brexit decision was that a race to the bottom occurred with migrants from Europe driving wages down. It would be informative to see whether it was indeed the lower end of the wage spectrum that drove that decline.

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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Thursday July 28 2016, @11:48AM

    by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Thursday July 28 2016, @11:48AM (#381139) Journal

    So why aren't we seeing similar wage decreases in Germany, France, Italy and other countries who are accepting EU migrants?

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by turgid on Thursday July 28 2016, @12:29PM

      by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 28 2016, @12:29PM (#381150) Journal

      Because they don't subject themselves to endless Tory governments.

    • (Score: 2, Disagree) by VLM on Thursday July 28 2016, @01:19PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 28 2016, @01:19PM (#381166)

      Because they haven't voted It-EX or WTF it'll be called yet, so no reason to propagandize.

      The numbers out of Italy are "roughly as desolate". Statistics being statistics its always possible to manipulate a few percent where and there. For example toss out an argument that declines in "wages" from this article are vaguely comparable to "GDP per capita". About 10 seconds with google will show GDP per capita in Italy is today STILL 15% lower than the peak before the recession began.

      Just wait, if italy votes to leave the EU we'll be drowned in corporate propaganda along the lines of "just because government policies are destroying their lives, that doesn't mean they should use evil populism to change policies, only idiots and old people and evil white people want the government to help the people instead of screwing them like the last couple decades".

      So that's why you're carefully not seeing the numbers. But hey good news Big Brother is on CBS tonight and football season is starting up so don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain etc etc.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 28 2016, @02:44PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 28 2016, @02:44PM (#381205)

        Greece was a good example of not leaving. Look to who was calling the shots. Those are the ones who are benefiting the most from the EU and have the most to lose if countries leave. The exact details are buried for a reason. They play up the 'good' things and downplay the costs.

        • (Score: 2) by turgid on Thursday July 28 2016, @03:10PM

          by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 28 2016, @03:10PM (#381217) Journal

          Greece got themselves into the mess in the first place. They were less than honest about their finances when joining the Euro which caused all sorts of problems then they got a big loan from the IMF etc. It's a can of worms.

          • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday July 28 2016, @08:00PM

            by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 28 2016, @08:00PM (#381302) Journal

            The way I heard it was that German Banks lent Greece money to buy (German) arms to defend themselves against Turkey.

            Now this wasn't exactly a wise move, but it also wasn't necessarily unreasonable. Was loaning them the money unreasonable? Perhaps. Was the austerity program demanded to pay back the loans unreasonable? Perhaps. Was the reaction to the austerity program predictable? Yes. But perhaps the strength of the reaction wasn't predictable.

            It *is* true that Greece didn't have a strong economy even to start with.

            --
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            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Thexalon on Thursday July 28 2016, @11:13PM

              by Thexalon (636) on Thursday July 28 2016, @11:13PM (#381363)

              The way I heard it was that German Banks lent Greece money to buy (German) arms to defend themselves against Turkey.

              That wasn't exactly the story, since it suggests that the banks gave a damn what the borrowed money was going to be used for, when it probably wasn't even remotely that calculated.

              The real reason the money poured into Greece (and Ireland, Portugal, and Spain) was that the yield on the bonds they were issuing was higher than the yields on the sovereign debt bonds from Germany and the UK, and with those debtor countries now part of the EU there was no longer any concerns about tax penalties that would make the difference in bond yields not worth it. Nobody was sitting there in a bank thinking out the purpose this borrowed money would go to, just about the higher return on investment they could make.

              The thing is, the higher bond yields also mean higher risks, and those investment bankers were looking at the upsides but not the downsides. After all, sovereign debt is still relatively safe, so why not get Greece's 5% or 7% rather than Germany's 3.5%? But once the financial crisis hit, we got shown the reason why the interest rate was higher, the debt went bad, but the German banks were powerful enough to convince the German government to bully Greece into paying back the loan no matter what it took. And the "no matter what" took on the form of austerity and massive unemployment. Which was not negotiable, unseating at least 2 prime ministers.

              In other words, yet another incarnation of the "heads we win, tails you lose" method of investment banking.

              --
              The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
          • (Score: 2) by edIII on Thursday July 28 2016, @10:21PM

            by edIII (791) on Thursday July 28 2016, @10:21PM (#381355)

            Yeah, and Goldman Sachs had absolutely nothing to do with it [businessinsider.com]. At all [globalresearch.ca].

            --
            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by bootsy on Thursday July 28 2016, @02:13PM

      by bootsy (3440) on Thursday July 28 2016, @02:13PM (#381194)

      You may well be seeing those depending on the rate of inflation verses the increase in wages. Your salary increase has to beat inflation ( the real rate not the fixed government ones, see CPI vs RPI) for you to actually be earning more.

      The UK has some differences which increase the likelihood of foreign workers arriving.

      1) a language most people think they can speak and no US style 101 test as a pre-requiste for working
      2) the commonwealth - it isn't just Euro workers who have links we the UK. India has provided many workers over the years and it's population eclipses that of Europe.
      3) No laws on who can own property. You don't have to be a citizen. Only the UK and Eire have this.
      4) A relatively high minimum wage topped up with in work benefits and other benefits that can be paid to those outside of the country ( e.g. child benefit ) allowing wage arbitrage if you come from a poorer country.
      5) Limited weather extremes. You can survive in a tent all year in the UK especially if you are used to very cold weather. I have seen Eastern European workers do this to reduce costs. After all housing is by far the biggest expense in modern Britain.
      6) A left wing Labour party that during the later 90s and early 2000s basically didn't have a policy on immigration ( no really it wasn't a deliberate strategy they just didn't expect it ) and so they weren't protecting the low paid and low skilled jobs of the working classes.
      7) A split in the left wing workers Unions between those who wanted to protect wages and those who feared that by doing so it would make them seem like right wing xenophobes.

      • (Score: 2) by Nesh on Thursday July 28 2016, @03:18PM

        by Nesh (269) on Thursday July 28 2016, @03:18PM (#381221)

        3) No laws on who can own property. You don't have to be a citizen. Only the UK and Eire have this.

        This is patently wrong. I know for a fact that in Sweden, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain there are no ownership restrictions for private housing.
        I suspect that is the case for most if not all of the other EU countries as well.

        Which EU countries restrict property ownership according to you?

        • (Score: 2) by bootsy on Thursday July 28 2016, @04:27PM

          by bootsy (3440) on Thursday July 28 2016, @04:27PM (#381243)

          Italy and Spain have restrictions on the acquisition of land by foreigners in border areas. In Spain, EU
          national are exempted from these restrictions, although in Italy, ownership and use of land in border
          areas by EU nationals and other foreigners must be authorised by the local Prefect of Police.
          Greece
          also has special restrictions on the acquisition of land in border areas. EU nationals are subject to the
          same restrictions and must obtain the same authorisation as Greek citizens. Other foreigners are
          subject to a different regime.

          There are often restrictions at local level as well. In the UK you don't have to any residence or connection with the country to own land or property either commerically or residentially.

          Owning property in France is an interesting one as you are tied by French inheritance laws unless you come up with some clever legal paper work. Although you own the property you children inherit under French law and again there are local restrictions that can be put in place that convenient get around state level EU rules.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 28 2016, @08:19PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 28 2016, @08:19PM (#381309)

            Aaaannd, since UK is an island, has no border areas where restrict the acquisition of land by foreigners, ergo no law needed. Well played.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 28 2016, @09:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 28 2016, @09:07PM (#381326)

      England is the main target as they provide even better benefits than the others do. Italy has a huge problem with them and they are starting to wake up. France and Germany can still cope with them for a while as they have more cash to waste.

      It doesn't take a degree in economics to understand how an influx of inexpensive workers will affect citizens. You might think it does not affects you for now, but the majority does not have as much job security as the average soylentil.

    • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Thursday July 28 2016, @09:50PM

      by Nuke (3162) on Thursday July 28 2016, @09:50PM (#381346)

      So why aren't we seeing similar wage decreases in Germany, France, Italy and other countries who are accepting EU migrants?

      It will come to them too. The UK had a head start with immigration because of its Commonwealth. Mass immigration to the UK started back in the 1950's with blacks from the West Indies, then an up-kick in the 1970's when some African Commonwealth nations expelled their Indian populations.

      As long as there is "free" flow of migration, income and wages will tend to a lowest common denominator (or possibly just an average) across the countries involved at both ends of the movements. For example, vast sums of money (and materials like stolen cables - a big issue here [lancashiretelegraph.co.uk]) are sent by UK immigrants to poor relations back home. Jeez, I had a Brazillian GF, with a degree but who only worked for peanuts as a cleaner and even she sent money back to her mother. She could hardly afford it, but did not want to dissillusion her mother by admitting that the streets of London were not paved with gold.

      • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Thursday July 28 2016, @10:01PM

        by Nuke (3162) on Thursday July 28 2016, @10:01PM (#381348)

        wages will tend to a lowest common denominator

        Sorry, I was using that term as a politician would - ie loosely! That would actually be very good indeed! Delete the words "common denominator".