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posted by martyb on Wednesday August 03 2016, @04:44AM   Printer-friendly
from the Power-to-the-Employees? dept.

The law takes a step that is completely unique: it prohibits employers from asking prospective hires about their salary histories until after they make a job offer that includes compensation, unless the applicants voluntarily disclose the information. No other state has such a ban in place.

[...] The new law also bans salary secrecy, blocking employers from keeping their employees from talking about pay with each other. About half of all employees say they are either prohibited or discouraged from discussing compensation, even though they have a legal right to do so.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/08/01/massachusetts-equal-pay-comparable-work-baker-bill/
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2016/08/01/3803836/massachusetts-equal-pay/


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by ledow on Wednesday August 03 2016, @07:34AM

    by ledow (5567) on Wednesday August 03 2016, @07:34AM (#383522) Homepage

    Surely, nothing has changed then?

    Because if your previous employer used the same "salary secrecy" rules, aren't you still bound by that when it comes to your interview for a new job?

    So they can ask, but you wouldn't be able to answer anyway, even if you're not working there any more (in the same way that some employment contracts forbid you starting similar companies, even for a while after you leave, in the same way as any other NDA etc.)?

    To be honest, the only time I've ever been asked about previous salaries is when it comes to actual salary negotiations (i.e. I have been offered the job) and it's always been "pushing up" from there. Pretty much they make an offer, I laugh at it, tell them what I used to earn previously, and then get more than that. Though they could be faking it, I very much doubt that's the case in all the times it's happened, especially considering a few times it's been "too much" and they've not been able to match previous salaries and I've gone elsewhere. In fact, one place I worked for was so impressed at interview that they CREATED a salary tier just for me - they had to have long arguments with the local Borough school boards in order to authorise it and I ended up getting classified as a "Specialist" in order to justify it. I still remember the arguments they had to have with the centralised payroll people and it basically boiled down to "This is MY school, I decide who to hire, and I'm hiring this guy, now you will facilitate that. You have no say in my staffing and I don't care about your internal rules."

    The reason I don't discuss pay, beside it being very crass and unprofessional, is that it often generates jealously and hostility. Though I don't earn record amounts, I earn more than average because I'm better than average at what I do. When you then get someone who's in a "higher" or equivalent position to you, and they realise that you're being paid just-as-much or more, they often feel that's instantaneous justification for going to the boss and demanding more money. They don't understand that they have to justify it, that it's a reward for past successes, that not everyone with the same job title is performing the same, that some people and skills are harder to find than others, etc.. I also do all my own salary negotiations. I do not join unions and don't "lump on" when everyone else is moaning. If I'm happy with my money, I keep quiet. If I'm not, I ask for more. If I feel I deserve or need more, and can't get it, I move somewhere I can get it. Contrary to public opinion, the no-unions things actually helps more than anything. Everyone I know that negotiates collectively earns less than those that negotiate individually. I do not base my salary on what the guy next to me earns, I base it on what I need, what I think I should have, and how well I do. The other guy's salary is more? Good luck to him, he's done well. I've worked with lots of people who earn more than me. The other guy's salary is less? Well, there's a reason for that. But I don't storm up to my boss and demand parity when I find out other's salaries if I'm happy with what I have.

    The other thing - being IT, technically I have access to everyone's salary. I have to ensure the finance databases are operational, train finance staff, manage payroll software and I also end up seeing everything from letters of commendation to emails sacking people. Not deliberately, not in any way unnecessarily, and I actually have to say "Look, I don't need to see the actual numbers, let's work on something less sensitive as an example" and similar to staff. I have seen the payroll go out and had to sit and hand-edit a CSV of names, bank accounts and salary payments that goes out to the banks etc. And this is one thing that I *do not* ever use, even secretly, in salary negotiations. I consider it an IT requirement that you have to be able to - like being in a jury asked to do so by the judge - disregard certain things that you have seen.

    I'm sure there are people out there that feel cheated even if their demonstrably-better colleague earns a penny more, and I'm sure there are people out there earning a fortune for doing a naff job. I'm sure there are people underpaid for what they do because they don't want to rock the boat, too. But salary negotiation is an inherently personal thing. I don't see why I should be legally sworn to secrecy but equally, if people can't professionally accept that a colleague earns more or is more skilled or brings others things to the role, then you do end up having to be tight-lipped in order to save arguments, if nothing else.

    And, every now and then, I come across someone who has been suffering in silence and is in need of more financial help, and I let them into a few tricks to try to help them get what they deserve (The biggest one? Have the balls to ask for more.) . My girlfriend was seriously underpaid until I encouraged her to negotiate, she was so scared of her employer "getting angry", in effect, and denying her anything more. Turned out that just asking was enough to add 10% without question as she was one of their best employees. It's those kinds of people who are missing out. And if they are "good" people (by my definition), I help if I can. I've sat in on people's meetings with HR (they were more worried about MY job in doing so!), briefed them before hand, encouraged them to ask, made them draw up lists of things they do that are technically "above and beyond" etc. Yes, I'm a troublemaker by some people's definitions. But it gets results where they are needed and has never caused me any hassle professionally (again, if I feel I'm being stymied, I move elsewhere anyway - the earlier you know these things the better!).

    Salaries are secret to stop rivalry from the idiot that is barely holding on.
    Salaries in interviews? You can tell them what you used to earn if you want. Or not. Just say you're not allowed to if you think it will harm your chances.

    But at the end of the day, what you want is a salary that you're happy with. Even if that's not national average, what your colleagues get, or what they would have been prepared to offer.

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  • (Score: 4, Informative) by deimtee on Wednesday August 03 2016, @02:17PM

    by deimtee (3272) on Wednesday August 03 2016, @02:17PM (#383593) Journal

    Contrary to public opinion, the no-unions things actually helps more than anything. Everyone I know that negotiates collectively earns less than those that negotiate individually

    .

    Just addressing this point, there is an obvious selection bias here. Those that negotiate individually like that are usually special snowflakes with extreme skills. Replaceable cogs in the office/production machinery have much less clout in the negotiations, unless they do it collectively.
    Personally, I am in favour of unions because they raise the general (working class) standard of living, and that is good for everyone. (well, in Oz and Britain they do, apparently USA unions are just corrupt arseholes.)

    --
    If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by SDRefugee on Wednesday August 03 2016, @03:10PM

      by SDRefugee (4477) on Wednesday August 03 2016, @03:10PM (#383607)

      ....USA unions are just corrupt arseholes

      The funding arm of the US democratic nee socialist party.... I've been "represented" by a US union back in 80s, where the only benefit I ever recieved from them was to be incessantly pestered to vote (D) in all elections... My wife got the same treatment from SEIU as a registered nurse during the the 2008 presidential election, where we were visited by union reps err thugs, and had it suggested that we both vote
      for Obama in the upcoming election. I told them I'd vote for him when pigs fly, which kinda riled them and I wound up having to threaten to call the police when they wouldn't leave.. Later, wife gets abruptly transfered to night shift, when she had a signed agreement with management to only work days.. Needless to say I DETEST unions...

      --
      America should be proud of Edward Snowden, the hero, whether they know it or not..
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Capt. Obvious on Wednesday August 03 2016, @08:37PM

        by Capt. Obvious (6089) on Wednesday August 03 2016, @08:37PM (#383757)

        I call BS on that being the "only benefit". It may be all you noticed, but your salary was almost certainly higher because that union had been around historically. Benefits too. The problem unions hav is that over time workers become acclimated to what they have, and start opposing a union because ti doesn't keep delivering bigger and bigger wins. But, without the union historically, they wouldn't be where they are now, and without the union in the future, they'll probably revert twoards that old version.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 04 2016, @02:23AM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 04 2016, @02:23AM (#383894) Journal

        I had one experience with unions, also in the '80's. My first job after leaving the Navy was union. The business was family owned for three or four generations, and related to "The Mob". Fact was, one family member had been indicted for his Mafia connections, but not convicted.

        Anyway, the company president and the union president were cousins. They "negotiated" contracts at Grandma's house, sitting poolside.

        The more I learned about the workings of the company and the union, the more I detested them both. The only thing the company was good for, was experience. They weren't especially choosy about who they hired, and I needed some experience.

    • (Score: 2) by el_oscuro on Thursday August 04 2016, @02:39AM

      by el_oscuro (1711) on Thursday August 04 2016, @02:39AM (#383897)

      Here across the pond, my wife works a union job, and I can in fact confirm that they are "corrupt arseholes". Unless you are a baseball player or a government employee, unions here aren't worth shit.

      --
      SoylentNews is Bacon! [nueskes.com]
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 03 2016, @02:20PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 03 2016, @02:20PM (#383595)

    What do you earn? Start the ball rolling. I work a 75hr fortnight for $110K full time including 4 weeks leave plus superannuation and other benefits on top

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 03 2016, @09:52PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 03 2016, @09:52PM (#383786)

      Do you mean that you earn $1466.67 per hour, or is that $110k annually?

      I earn about $53/hr, but get bonuses that push it up to about $66/hr.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 05 2016, @03:38AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 05 2016, @03:38AM (#384372)

      $500 a day, plus expenses. Unfortunately I only work four days a year.