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posted by martyb on Thursday August 11 2016, @05:49PM   Printer-friendly
from the about-headlines:-don't-use-no-double-negatives dept.

The Register has a story about a court ruling that possibly puts one nail in the coffin of the attempt by the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) to prevent states from banning municipal ISPs.

The Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals said on Wednesday [PDF] that the American regulator lacks the authority to overrule state laws that prevent cities from operating their own ISPs.

Last year, the watchdog declared it was unfair of North Carolina and Tennessee to block community-run broadband. Now an appeals court has said the FCC overstepped the mark by trying to undo that block with a preemptive order. In other words, in this case, the US states can't be pushed around and overruled by the communications regulator as it lacks the clear authority to do so.

"This preemption by the FCC of the allocation of power between a state and its subdivisions requires at least a clear statement in the authorizing federal legislation," the judges noted.

"The FCC relies upon S706 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 for the authority to preempt in this case, but that statute falls far short of such a clear statement. The preemption order must accordingly be reversed."

We obviously have not seen the last of this, especially since the amateur lawyer in me believes the court decision was in error.


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  • (Score: 4, Touché) by Zz9zZ on Thursday August 11 2016, @06:04PM

    by Zz9zZ (1348) on Thursday August 11 2016, @06:04PM (#386689)

    I'm all for State's rights and think the Feds should only step in when it is generally a constitutional matter. This usually comes down to the Feds keeping the States from restricting personal freedom of the people. So in this case, why should the states be allowed to restrict a municipality from providing internet access? If a rural town is not being served adequately by a large Telco, why not let them run their own fibre and connect up to a major hub? Oh right, corruption being used to protect a near monopoly.

    On a sidenote, I'd love to see a business whose sole -purpose is to compare two sides of a debate and come up with a clear breakdown of the relevant issues. In this case, what are the stated reasons for banning municipal ISPs? What are the pros and cons of allowing such competition?

    Sadly I can't see how such a business would make money... I think we used to call them "journalists" but now they are "bloggers" and the professional ones don't even have the value of the amateurs since they are more directly forced to create crap that gets clicks.

    --
    ~Tilting at windmills~
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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by TheGratefulNet on Thursday August 11 2016, @06:16PM

    by TheGratefulNet (659) on Thursday August 11 2016, @06:16PM (#386699)

    bribes and kickbacks are the ONLY reason.

    no need for a 'study'. its as obvious as the noses on our faces.

    the fact that we are stuck with non-freedom based laws means we have lost the moral high ground and the prinicples the US were made on have all been sold out.

    shit like this makes me hope that there's a revolution. I honestly truly don't see us fixing ourselves the peaceful way. too many things are broken, never to be fixed, and we all suffer for it.

    analogy: would you 'fix' windows ME or windows 98 to make it better or throw it out and start over?

    we are too broken at too many deep levels. physician heal thyself does not work and it won't work here.

    and TLA, go ahead and re-add me to your watch list. I don't give a flying fuck at this point, to be honest. anyone speaking out for freedom ends up on that list, anyway, so I'll be in good company.

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Gravis on Thursday August 11 2016, @06:28PM

      by Gravis (4596) on Thursday August 11 2016, @06:28PM (#386711)

      the fact that we are stuck with non-freedom based laws means we have lost the moral high ground and the prinicples the US were made on have all been sold out.

      absolutely.

      shit like this makes me hope that there's a revolution. I honestly truly don't see us fixing ourselves the peaceful way. too many things are broken, never to be fixed, and we all suffer for it.

      we do need a revolution but not violent one, a political revolution that more akin to the hostile takeover of a business than a civil war. while you have fallen into despair, i think people are finally seeing the problems being exposed thanks in part to the technology. a lot of people like you are pissed and they do see a possible way out, so when someone asks you to support an effort to fix this nation, don't turn them away because you think it's unfixable.

      • (Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:22PM

        by TheGratefulNet (659) on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:22PM (#386753)

        I'm too old and bitter to believe we can fix ourselves the peaceful way. things have been broken for a long time - some things have been broken nearly 100 years.

        that does not inspire me to think the system can heal itself.

        note well, I do not want a violent revolution, but I feel its necessary since there is no ability to fix the system inside itself once it has gotton to this level of self-servitude.

        those who have will not give it up. they hold tight and distract us more and more. they have a lot to lose, afterall, so they will not give in without a fight. the monied interests rule the world and to expect them to turn over a new leaf - that's bizarre thinking. show me where a system truly fixed itself once its sunk to this levels. does not happen, will not happen, this is why countries revolt. we are no different. the rulers have played us for fools and since they own and control all the wealth, the police, the laws, the supply chains, the transportation and now even the internet, how the fuck do you think the little people like you and me can fix things?

        sorry, but I don't believe that we can fix it. I SO much wish we could. but I'm a realist and I see what state things are in now and how entrenched the whole fucking place is.

        --
        "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday August 12 2016, @12:00AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 12 2016, @12:00AM (#386831) Journal

          I'm too old and bitter to believe we can fix ourselves the peaceful way. things have been broken for a long time - some things have been broken nearly 100 years.

          Yet apparently not too old to be infatuated with the fantasy of revolution. My view here is that I don't trust anyone with revolution who can't see how to fix the current situation (presumably you're in the US). They have demonstrated that they are already thorough incompetent and blinkered.

          Further, I think many of the people who currently lust for revolution now are already responsible for a fair portion of the problems of the US, such as a lousy employment market, driving up the cost of various human needs (particularly, housing, education, retirement, and health care), contributed to the current corporatism (when one gives the federal government so much power over our lives and resources to play with, it shouldn't be a surprise when it uses it to benefit the wealthy), and help with their various loyal opponents to lower the standards of public discourse.

          Sure, the US could be better, but we need to remember that things are going pretty well right now. We still have a great deal of freedom and we have peaceful, society-preserving means for making the changes we want. How about we try to make our society better first before we go with revolution?

          • (Score: 2) by fnj on Friday August 12 2016, @12:48AM

            by fnj (1654) on Friday August 12 2016, @12:48AM (#386848)

            infatuated with the fantasy of revolution

            Wake up, chump. Revolutions happen all the time. They are hardly fantasies. Would it be presumptous of me to guess that what you really meant to say was more like "the fantasy that a revolution fixes anything more than very briefly, if at all"?

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday August 12 2016, @02:39PM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 12 2016, @02:39PM (#387032) Journal

              Revolutions happen all the time. They are hardly fantasies.

              Fantasy doesn't mean something doesn't happen. I imagine there's a lot of sex fantasies played out every day, for example.

        • (Score: 2) by edIII on Friday August 12 2016, @12:22AM

          by edIII (791) on Friday August 12 2016, @12:22AM (#386842)

          I'm right there with you, for all the same reasons. I don't want violence... but it's the only future we have. One of great bloodshed, everywhere.

          For no other reason than people can no longer survive off a day's work. We both know the simple reasons why the bloodshed will occur; Food, shelter, entertainment.

          It was 10 fucking dollars for string cheese last night; Fuck that noise. A modest amount of fruit, that you may have found a restaurant plate 10 years ago, is now $8.99. More than the entire meal about 10 years ago. Rents in my area are up 40% in the last few years, while wages have stagnated. Disposable income has all but disappeared with people choosing between power bills, rent, OR food. The days of being able to assume you could pay all of your bills has long since past for too much of the middle class of America, and those worse off, are more materially deprived than ever. Forget about entertainment and vacations. Stay at home and leech whatever entertainment you can, for free, off the Internet. Going out for fun would require a second job and 8 more hours added to the day.

          The lies sold by the prick Obama and DipshitCare, have only resulted in the contraction of businesses, practices, and donated healthcare they USED to provide. Everyone drank the koolaid that DipshitCare must have fixed everything, but it never did. The people that were going without, are still going without, and this time with far less resources in their communities to help them. Homeless populations are growing faster than job markets. Those that depended on "handouts" from the state certainly never saw the money increase, while they've experienced drastic inflation from their perspective. Many people on disability receive less than half of a full time minimum wage job, and as a result live homeless using the money for the barest of essentials.

          People that were depending on the government to actually help them, and the people who voted for the programs to help them, have been betrayed. That money was siphoned off by corruption, excuse me, managed health care, and those people are not going to get better and back on their feet while being homeless. Yet this is our world; Our great fears expressed everyday - TO BE FORGOTTEN BY SOCIETY AND PRESSED INTO A FUTILE ATTEMPT TO GET BETTER WHILE BEING REVILED AS A LAZY WORTHLESS PERSON.

          To say that Panem Et Circenses is broken, is an understatement. Combine that with:
          - brain drain and the generally poor state of education, of which is unavoidable due to the.....
          - lack of protein in 1/5 children's brains
          - Ever increasing income inequality with 63 people holding over %90 of the wealth

          Anybody with a brain can see that is a recipe for bloody, bloody, b l o o d y, revolution. Anybody with a brain can see that politics has been wholly hijacked, and indeed, both political parties show clears signs of corruption during election times, and pretty much any ol' time. Corporations rule through "transparent & impartial" orgs like ALEC that helpfully supply our politicians with laws to be passed.

          Everything is broken, corrupt, and sliding into a literal fetid misery of pain and despair (homeless people have to go to bathroom somewhere... so in public).

          All of this creates the tinder everywhere on the forest floor so to speak. All it takes is one good man to break, start himself on fire, and establish the American Spring. Revolution here we come. Neither of us are treasonous, neither of us seek violence. Yet the future is one of violence dictated by our intellects and differing experiences. We should start selling t-shirts. At least then we can afford some beer to watch the world burn around us.

          "The world is burning!
          .....
          But I got beer and TV, no worries"

          --
          Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday August 14 2016, @12:20PM

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Sunday August 14 2016, @12:20PM (#387828) Homepage
          > nearly 100 years

          Over 100 years - December 23, 1913
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by TheGratefulNet on Thursday August 11 2016, @08:52PM

        by TheGratefulNet (659) on Thursday August 11 2016, @08:52PM (#386781)

        news just posted today:

        http://www.wusa9.com/news/dea-regularly-mines-americans-travel-records-to-seize-millions-in-cash/294994619 [wusa9.com]

        read that and tell me with a straight face that you think the system can fix itself.

        we have 'asset forfeiture' that is LITERALLY highway robbery. we have cops killing people left and right because of ... reasons!

        and this gem was recent, too:

        http://www.wftv.com/news/florida-officer-who-killed-librarian-resigned-from-another-agency/421332241 [wftv.com]

        cops do whatever the fuck they want with 'paid vacations' as rewards.

        tell me - you seriously think the system can fix itself with shit like this happening on a weekly basis?

        I have given up hope.

        --
        "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 12 2016, @04:48AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 12 2016, @04:48AM (#386900)

        a lot of people like you are pissed and they do see a possible way out

        With nearly half the country begging for fascism and supporting a presidential candidate who's campaigning on overthrowing our constitutional form of government by subverting, undermining, and ignoring the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, and 14th amendments, I'm not sure there is an out.

        • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Friday August 12 2016, @08:23AM

          by Zz9zZ (1348) on Friday August 12 2016, @08:23AM (#386938)

          Yeaaah, it does scare me a bit, Hitler didn't come to power as some monster but as a symbol of hope to many people. Then they realized what they brought to life... Trump shows every sign of being the same thing for the US, but I really think he's just a distraction to get Hillary in office. If he wins I think he'll just be a funny puppet show, looking at his personal history it becomes pretty clear, he's a bit too old to change tactics now. He's just another puppet in the theater. Some of the shit he says is like he's begging for people to see him as a fucking lunatic, BEGGING! Its just insane that people support him even more because of it. So either he's a clever plant, or he truly read the spirit of many americans and is riding the wave to glory....

          My anecdotal supporting evidence is the media. They played up everything he said, pushed every Trumpism as hard as possible, and now that he solidified his hold over the GOP they have done a 180 and tear him down all over. who can tell what crazy games the media plays, everything they do is batshit crazy.

          --
          ~Tilting at windmills~
    • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Thursday August 11 2016, @06:42PM

      by Zz9zZ (1348) on Thursday August 11 2016, @06:42PM (#386722)

      The bread and circuses works really well because there is a certain tipping point the people must reach on average before they are willing to fully invest themselves in protest. Ghandi and MLK really had the best methods, but in both cases things had gotten so bad that they had a major following. The problems in our society are so dispersed at the moment that you can't bring people together for one cause. The "Occupy" movement was the closest we've come in a while, and we all saw how that was marginalized and discounted. Too many people thought it was about lazy freeloaders, but 5 years later I think more are waking up to the reality of what Occupy was about.

      Now we have BLM which is being similarly discounted. Sure there are lots of examples of how BLM screwed up in a variety of manners, but what movement doesn't have that happen?

      I wish the powers that be would see this as a real indicator that things ARE that messed up and we need solutions NOW. When BLM started every police force should have immediately taken steps to address the grievances, but few to none did. The result was multiple shootings of police officers. Our culture has promoted violence in so many ways, and restricted the ability for people to address their grievances, so this is the result.

      For everyone on here, you may be pissed and want a revolution, but a violent path is not the way forward. That will only give the government justification to imprison masses of people and send us into a truly dystopian nightmare. Right now we are in the idyllic dystopia, where the thin veneer of freedom still exists and certain lines can not be crossed. If a segment of the general populace turns to violence then you can forget gaining enough majority support, and expect the military to step in with soldiers that think it is justified. Then the whole US will really understand what fascism is all about.

      --
      ~Tilting at windmills~
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @06:50PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @06:50PM (#386726)

        The truly sad part is you are too oblivious to reckon a portion of that revolutionary spirit is directed at your ilk.

        Comparing a lack of municipal ISPs to Occupy and Ghandi?

        Oh please.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:22PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:22PM (#386751)

          Banning municipal ISPs is one out of countless examples of widespread corruption. But it looks like you chose to be disingenuous.

          • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:34PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:34PM (#386760)

            I'm sorry, I wasn't aware they suspended elections in North Carolina and Tennessee, and that the only possible remedy to this is an appeal to the FCC to then regulate ISPs in ALL states because apparently it is too much bother to petition their local representatives.

            Which they even can, but... gasp! ...it will require, you know, due process of law.

            Maybe they should send in the national guard to bring cost effective internet service to those poor huddled masses too.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:38PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:38PM (#386761)

              I'm sorry, I wasn't aware they suspended elections in North Carolina and Tennessee, and that the only possible remedy to this is an appeal to the FCC to then regulate ISPs in ALL states because apparently it is too much bother to petition their local representatives.

              Yet again, you're being disingenuous. First you pretend that the matter is solely about the banning of municipal ISPs and not the widespread corruption that this points to, and then you change the topic to how North Carolina and Tennessee still have elections, which is completely irrelevant and doesn't prove that there isn't widespread corruption. I, at least, didn't say anything about the FCC being the only solution.

              • (Score: 2) by fnj on Friday August 12 2016, @12:54AM

                by fnj (1654) on Friday August 12 2016, @12:54AM (#386852)

                disingenuous

                "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

            • (Score: 2) by fnj on Friday August 12 2016, @12:56AM

              by fnj (1654) on Friday August 12 2016, @12:56AM (#386853)

              I'm sorry, I wasn't aware they suspended elections in North Carolina and Tennessee

              Suspending elections is not the only way to subvert the electoral process.

      • (Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:26PM

        by TheGratefulNet (659) on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:26PM (#386757)

        clearly, it will get very very bad if we have a violent revolution.

        but I see no sign that a peaceful one that works 'inside the system' can ever work.

        I just don't see it. sorry. the system is too self-serving to fix itself any other way.

        yes, a revolution will suck and we will be far worse off for a long time. but like a forest fire, the forest regrows after such a disaster.

        it could grow into a mad-max world, its true. its a chance that we may have to take. there's the chance we can fix ourselves once we endure a huge tragedy.

        --
        "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
        • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:42PM

          by Zz9zZ (1348) on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:42PM (#386765)

          Its not a chance we have to take, at that point it is something that will be forced upon us. The "powers that be" think they are so superior to the peons, but they can't get it through their thick skulls that the good of all spreads to themselves. Their greed has blinded "the system" and will result in the crash, where if they were truly smart then these problems would be addressed and the entire nation would prosper. Idiots, morons, troglodytes in top hats.

          --
          ~Tilting at windmills~
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:47PM

          by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:47PM (#386769) Journal

          In a small town pushing for a muni-ISP, TheGratefulNet rouses the rabble:

          yes, a revolution will suck and we will be far worse off for a long time

          "They can take our Internets, but they canna' take, our FREEDOM!!!!"

          "Um, hey, Grate, the Pokemon are gone!"

          "What do you mean, the Pokemon are gone? How many?"

          "All of them, Grate! I was in the middle of Pokemon Go!, and suddenly they all just disappeared. It was like they were never really there at all!"

          "Ok, that's it! Give the FCC whatever they want. Give Comcast whatever they want! Give Verizon . . . "

          Sometimes capitulation can go too far. Way too far.

      • (Score: 2) by edIII on Friday August 12 2016, @08:57PM

        by edIII (791) on Friday August 12 2016, @08:57PM (#387168)

        The bread and circuses works really well because there is a certain tipping point the people must reach on average before they are willing to fully invest themselves in protest.

        That's coming very quickly. Bread and circuses is actually dying, along with our economy. What happens when the entire fast food industry moves towards automation? Those slave wagers, already taking state benefits, will swell the numbers of homeless people. There's a point I'm making with that, because a man in our neighborhood has fucking lost it over homeless people. Right next to his property he has major issues keeping homeless people from attempting to bivouac in the open property behind him. He's rented back hoes, invested thousands in strong metal fencing, and has engaged in a futile attempt to place obstacles to the homeless around him.

        He's not happy. There are no bread and circuses at this guy's joint, that is quickly turning into a barbed wire, closed circuit surveillance, no trespassing, ill-fucking-shoot-you-if-step-on-my-lawn happy town.

        The stresses and pressures are quickly overtaking people's ability for peaceful enjoyment, whether or not they still have the means to do so. I must stress, I'm in a very nice area of the country situated next to Silicon Valley. You would think we wouldn't suffer from this, but it's very clear that the service worker demographic in Northern California is tanking, and nobody gives a fuck.

        That will only give the government justification to imprison masses of people and send us into a truly dystopian nightmare.

        No. A revolution will result in the 99% killing of much of the 1%, specifically that part that doesn't escape to another country. What sides are there going to be in the revolution again? White conservative nationalists against liberal minorities? I'm sure that fits some narrative for a race war, but the truth is the most hated and visible opponents are law enforcement and the 1%.

        We've already seen the beginnings of it. Angry black men with military training becoming so convinced the only path to safety is killing the enemy. In this case, the enemy is law enforcement killing innocent unarmed, and predominately, black males. That's super hard to argue with, because that is exactly what the media portrays constantly. On both sides of the Republican and Democratic parties you have hordes of angry pissed off people convinced that the 1% are the problem, and that their party brings the solutions against them.

        The numbers [prisonpolicy.org] are staggering. 2.3 million people locked up, at costs [vera.org] that are quite sobering.

        Among the 40 states surveyed, representing more than 1.2 million inmates
        (of 1.4 million total people incarcerated in all 50 state prison systems), the total
        per-inmate cost averaged $31,286 and ranged from $14,603 in Kentucky to $60,076
        in New York (see Figure 4).
        9
        The methodology provides an “apples to apples”
        comparison of state prison costs because it standardizes the measure and counts
        the comprehensive costs to taxpayers in every state.

        At the averaged cost, that is ~$71 billion dollars per year. The actual number of all 50 states is higher, and those numbers are 2012 numbers. For each and every single one of those 2.3 million people, they contributed nothing to GDP and the tax base, and in fact, only contribute to private prison profits. Those profits come back in the form of taxes? Depends on what corporate inversions are occurring, and just how low the adjusted tax rate actually is. In any case, slave labor isn't subject to OSHA or the Federal Minimum wage laws.

        Were the fucking 99% dude. Let's see them scale up the prisons that fast, let's see them deal with the collapse of the economy, and let's see them continue to make the rest of the middle-heading-to-poor class pay to house all of their friends and relatives fighting the good fight. Putting everyone in prison only works when you can afford it, and who is going to pay up that much money?

        You know what a prisoner is afraid of when escaping prison? Going back to prison put simply enough, and that is fear based on the rest of the people outside of prison. So what happens when you have a prison of 10,000 Americans held of political activism (excuse me, revolution) and they realize that they fantastically outnumber the guards, and not everyone outside of prison agrees that a new prison should be built to house them at all. That's because those 10,000 people can actually tear the prison down and render it unusable in a matter of hours without the national guard moving in to pacify them lickety-split. How many former national guard members and trained ex-paramilitary might be in there too?

        No, dude. You can't imprison a revolution. Not at this scale.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @06:24PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @06:24PM (#386706)

    The FCC could argue the case under the commerce clause, however congress would have to grant the FCC that specific power.

    While sympathetic to the arguments, I note that this is more or less a case of the cudgel of government is fine and good for things i support, and a gross injustice for things I don't.

    There are numerous approaches to this that don't involve the FCC, and even if it does, there is a clear path to give them that authority.

    I DO NOT want the FCC regulating more than they absolutely have to.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:25PM (#386756)

      The FCC could argue the case under the commerce clause, however congress would have to grant the FCC that specific power.

      Congress can only give the FCC such a power if the constitution grants the federal government such a power. It's unclear to me how the commerce clause would apply here.

      While sympathetic to the arguments, I note that this is more or less a case of the cudgel of government is fine and good for things i support, and a gross injustice for things I don't.

      "If I like a policy, it's constitutional. If I don't like a policy, it's unconstitutional." is a sadly common mindset.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:44PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 11 2016, @07:44PM (#386767)

        Wire crosses state lines. This is one of the few unambiguous applications of the commerce clause, but the power of regulation is specific to congress alone. If congress wishes to grant the FCC more authority, so be it, but it is going to require new law, which the congress has been hesitant about.

        Yes, I'm a bit irked that people will beat their breast about localities making contracts with ISPs, but something fundamental like being able to buy health insurance across state lines, well there's always Obamacare.

        Fuck me.