Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by martyb on Friday August 19 2016, @12:11AM   Printer-friendly
from the you-can-talk,-but-not-here dept.

Karl Bode over at Techdirt brings us news that NPR will no longer be allowing comments on its website in order to promote relationships and conversation:

For several years now we've documented the rise in websites that shutter their comment sections, effectively muzzling their own on-site communities. Usually this is because websites are too lazy and cheap to moderate or cultivate real conversation, or they're not particularly keen on having readers point out their inevitable errors in such a conspicuous location. But you can't just come out and admit this -- so what we get is all manner of disingenuous prattle from website editors about how the comments section is being closed because they just really value conversation, or are simply trying to build better relationships.

NPR appears to be the latest in this trend du jour, with Managing Editor of digital news Scott Montgomery penning a new missive over at the website saying the comments are closing as of August 23:

"After much experimentation and discussion, we've concluded that the comment sections on NPR.org stories are not providing a useful experience for the vast majority of our users. In order to prioritize and strengthen other ways of building community and engagement with our audience, we will discontinue story-page comments on NPR.org on August 23."

Again, nothing says we "love and are engaged with" our community quite like preventing them from being able to speak to you on site (this muzzle represents my love for you, darling). The logic is, as Montgomery proceeds to proclaim, that social media is just so wonderful, on-site dialogue is no longer important:

"Social media is now one of our most powerful sources for audience interaction. Our desks and programs run more than 30 Facebook pages and more than 50 Twitter accounts. We maintain vibrant presences on Snapchat, Instagram and Tumblr. Our main Facebook page reaches more than 5 million people and recently has been the springboard for hundreds of hours of live video interaction and audience-first projects such as our 18,000-member "Your Money and Your Life" group."

And while those are all excellent additional avenues of interaction and traffic generation, it's still not quite the same as building brand loyalty through cultivating community and conversation on site. By outsourcing all conversation to Facebook, you're not really engaging in your readers, you're herding them to a homogonized[sic], noisy pasture where they're no longer your problem. In short, we want you to comment -- we just want you to comment privately or someplace else so our errors aren't quite so painfully highlighted and we no longer have to try to engage you publicly. All for the sake of building deeper relationships, of course.

Say it with me now: control the narrative at all costs.


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by jIyajbe on Friday August 19 2016, @01:27AM

    by jIyajbe (5615) on Friday August 19 2016, @01:27AM (#389828)

    A simpler explanation for this decision might be that, like the comments sections at every even vaguely political news site I've seen, it becomes like a large, crowded room of people screaming at each other at the top of their lungs. Lots of noise, but no communication. And when, in addition, so many of the screams devolve into personal attacks, it becomes hard to see the actual value produced.

    If this analogy is at all accurate, then the decision to empty the room and not invite those folks back seems easy to make.

    --
    "Don't blame the log for the fire." --Andrew Ratshin
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +4  
       Insightful=3, Informative=1, Total=4
    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  

    Total Score:   5  
  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @01:53AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @01:53AM (#389837)

    Also don't forget the paid shills "correcting the record".

    Unlike here, the comments on most news sites are of such low quality that they only distract, promote disinformation, and polarize the opinions of people reading them.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @02:24AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @02:24AM (#389848)

      I really don't know how any website could have a comment system without a peer moderation system. The one used here or on /. may not be perfect, but browsing at +2 or +3 will hide shitposts. But even our shitposts come nowhere near the level of insanity I've seen in some comment sections. It's as though 90% of the posters are jmorris.

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday August 19 2016, @03:27AM

        Come on now, our trolls are of way higher quality and refinement than most anywhere else on the web. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday August 19 2016, @03:36AM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday August 19 2016, @03:36AM (#389887) Journal

          Eh, some of them are. Ethanol is hilarious, like Gilbert Gottfried crossed with Uncle Ruckus and with a fifth of vodka in him. You, uh, kinda suck though. More so because I don't think you're actually trolling most of the time :/

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday August 19 2016, @09:20AM

            With you, I'm almost always trolling. You make it so easy.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday August 19 2016, @04:43PM

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday August 19 2016, @04:43PM (#390144) Journal

              Yeah, i probably do. I actually think, for some reason, that everyone's worth at least a serious look. Naive and foolish, huh?

              ...but no, I don't think you actually are trolling most of the time. It's entirely possible for someone to be as God-awful a specimen of humanity as you're (supposedly) pretending to be. I take people at their word generally, and if your word is "I'm a flaming mobile dumpster fire of a human being who makes the pro-choice case better than anyone not currently in office" well...that's on you.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday August 19 2016, @07:54PM

                See now that's entirely your own personal biases doing the talking. I happen to genuinely think your ideals are vile and oppressive while mine are the only moral way to live. Fortunately for you, my ideals don't require that I prevent other people from living in as miserable a fashion as they care to like yours do.

                But yeah, most of the time when I talk to it's with the express purpose of winding you up as much as I can. Whether I believe what I'm saying to do so or not is irrelevant to me.

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday August 19 2016, @07:59PM

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday August 19 2016, @07:59PM (#390237) Journal

                  See, like I keep saying, all you're doing every time you post is proving both how completely disconnected from reality you are and what a God-awful example of a human being you are. I'm this close to giving up on you like I did with J-Mo.

                  --
                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday August 19 2016, @08:15PM

                    You keep saying that and keep flinging shit at me but it's not my ideals that require me to tell others how they have to live. That would be you. Say, how long does it take to break in a new pair of jackboots?

                    --
                    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday August 19 2016, @08:52PM

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday August 19 2016, @08:52PM (#390274) Journal

                      Hm, guess Hawking was wrong...information IS lost in a black hole :/

                      Since you've admitted [that you think you're] constantly trolling, I guess I shouldn't take anything you say seriously anymore, and just thank my lucky stars you're too pathetic to do much of anything in meatspace to anyone else any longer. Just lie back and let Mistress Entropy do her inevitable work, Uzzard...

                      --
                      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 20 2016, @01:51AM

                        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday August 20 2016, @01:51AM (#390386) Homepage Journal

                        You keep saying things that have nothing to do with either our conversations or reality. You should get your noggin checked. The voices you hear, they're in your head.

                        --
                        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                        • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday August 20 2016, @03:46AM

                          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday August 20 2016, @03:46AM (#390418) Journal

                          Projection is an awful thing, Uzzard. Besides which, didn't you say outright before you're just trolling? That means we can all assume everything you say from here on means jack-all. My mistake was giving you any time at all, really; I'm still annoyingly naive about that, thinking that even the worst person has something worthwhile to say now and then.

                          --
                          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 20 2016, @10:24AM

                            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday August 20 2016, @10:24AM (#390542) Homepage Journal

                            Ah, but the best trolls are the ones that both bust your chops and are true. You don't seem to have figured this out yet, so I figured I'd go ahead and tell you. You won't listen anyway. You're too busy figuring out what uniforms you want your storm troopers in.

                            --
                            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday August 21 2016, @02:11AM

                              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday August 21 2016, @02:11AM (#390828) Journal

                              The best trolls are both true and annoying, yes. You've only got the annoying part going...your problem is late-stage Dunning-Krugeritis, meaning you're not only wrong, not only incapable of understanding why you're wrong, but also incapable of understanding *that* you're wrong.

                              Unfortunately there's no cure, or at least no cure that doesn't kill the patient. I guess we're stuck with you, seeing as you're staff. Ugh.

                              --
                              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday August 21 2016, @02:27AM

                                You'd be stuck with me regardless. We don't censor around these parts.

                                --
                                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday August 21 2016, @04:41AM

                                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday August 21 2016, @04:41AM (#390888) Journal

                                  Oh, I don't WANT you censored. In fact I want everyone to see it when you take another rancid, autofellating braindump into the midst of the very forums you help manage.

                                  As I've said several times before, you do the work for me. My mistake is taking the bait when you lay it out, which is mostly down to not enough sleep from the whole two jobs plus anti-human-trafficking-work thing.

                                  --
                                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Friday August 19 2016, @02:51PM

        by tangomargarine (667) on Friday August 19 2016, @02:51PM (#390095)

        Browsing at +2 also makes the echo chamber much more intensive.

        Come on guys, suck it up and browse at 0. Isn't one of the moderation guidelines that we're supposed to be looking out for abuses, here?

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @02:05AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @02:05AM (#389841)
    Right. Have a look at any postings here that are even vaguely political in nature and watch the fireworks. The moderation system for a site like this is barely able to keep up. I don't think that a site like NPR wants their comments section to be filled with shitposts, flamebaits, trolls, racist commentary, ad hominem attacks, and other similar online detritus. Even if they have Fine Print that says "The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way" having such commentary reflects badly on them (it already kind of makes SN look bad to see blatantly racist posts like this [soylentnews.org] with positive moderation). Moderating a very large forum to keep such garbage out is a lot work.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @02:21AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @02:21AM (#389846)

      blatantly racist posts like this with positive moderation

      Dare I look? Oooooo, it's one of mine! I'm so proud.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @04:07AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @04:07AM (#389910)

      > (it already kind of makes SN look bad to see blatantly racist posts like this with positive moderation).

      It doesn't just make SN look bad, it pushes people away. I can just imagine buzzard swooping in to tell us that's great! Nothing of value was lost. Who needs those weak-minded idiots who aren't willing to slough through shit, anyway? If you can't handle SN at its worst, you don't deserve SN at its best! And then he'll proceed to pat himself on the back for defeating his 'enemies.'

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @05:13AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @05:13AM (#389935)

        Yes, because it is far too cumbersome to mount an effective critique, and certainly there is nothing that SN needs but to grow to monolithic proportions.

        Heaven forbid SN stray too far away from being on-message, and thank god there is a tireless army to mod every offending post into oblivion.

        Here's a clue- simply calling out racism doesn't mean anything. Racist or not, if you can't (or more likely won't) deconstruct the argument, then your intellectual superiority isn't as assured as you think it is.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Friday August 19 2016, @05:49AM

          by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Friday August 19 2016, @05:49AM (#389945)

          Yes, because it is far too cumbersome to mount an effective critique, and certainly there is nothing that SN needs but to grow to monolithic proportions.

          I know you are going for sarcasm there, but it is actually true. To quote The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies [cryptome.org]:

          There are several techniques for the control and manipulation of a internet forum no matter what, or who is on it. We will go over each technique and demonstrate that only a minimal number of operatives can be used to eventually and effectively gain a control of a 'uncontrolled forum.'

          Technique #1 - 'FORUM SLIDING'
          (push interesting post off front-page)
          Technique #2 - 'CONSENSUS CRACKING'
          (legit-looking post with "VERY WEAK PREMISE")
          Technique #3 - 'TOPIC DILUTION'
          (deliberately stray off-topic)
          Technique #4 - 'INFORMATION COLLECTION'
          ("In this technique in a light and positive environment a 'show you mine so me yours' posting is initiated. ")
          Technique #5 - 'ANGER TROLLING'
          (Find the hot-heads by posting a police abuse video)
          Technique #6 - 'GAINING FULL CONTROL'
          (Angle for mod position)

          Essentially, they quality posts take more time to write, and get buried in the shit-posts. Making things worse, self-moderated forums like this favour early posting: which will tend to be low-quality posts.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @06:00AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19 2016, @06:00AM (#389948)

            Gee, /pol/ makes the same arguments about the JDF.

            Problem is you read my comment even though it is late in the thread and unmodded.

            Truth of the matter is people use forums for validation and control of the narrative. And it is easier to give the illusion of consensus nor second-guessing your positions if there aren't any diverging points of view.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Friday August 19 2016, @06:33AM

              by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Friday August 19 2016, @06:33AM (#389959)

              Don't know what JDF means, but I do check forums like this for validation.

              If somebody else said it already, I don't need to :)

              I recently tired to help steer constructive discussion on some recent thunderf00t Youtube videos. That forum does not lend itself to productive discussion. Many posts just disappear: leading to people posing many, many redundant posts.

              This site may still have high-quality because the server catches fire when a story gets near 200 posts or so. People actually have time to go through them: if they want. When a video has over 3,000 responses, nobody has time to read them all before posting possible duplicates.