SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
In 2013, 81.1 percent of U.S. mothers said they started out breast-feeding their baby. That's up from 75 percent in 2008, and 70 percent in 2000, according to the CDC.
[...] 52 percent of U.S. mothers said they were still breast-feeding their infants when the babies were 6 months old, and 30 percent said they were still breast-feeding when the babies reached 1 year.
How should society handle breastfeeding in public and the workplace? Should there be any restrictions on the age of the child?
Breastfeeding has obvious benefits for a child's development, but breast milk is also a fluid of the body that can carry disease.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-still-breastfeeds-daughter-aged-4881835
http://www.livescience.com/55846-breast-feeding-mothers-united-states.html
(Score: -1, Troll) by Francis on Wednesday August 24 2016, @03:52PM
The answer is that women shouldn't be allowed to do that. This is just another double standard that women want.
Men need to adjust ourselves in public far more than women need to breast feed in public. One of those things can be planned for and the other can't. I leave it as an exercise to the reader to think about which one that is.
The point is that men are entitled to feel uncomfortable with women breast feeding in public and women need to just accept that. Men give up enough stuff because women are whiny and self-centered as it is, I think we ought to be entitled to feel comfortable from time to time.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday August 24 2016, @04:02PM
You're entitled to feel uncomfortable. That doesn't mean you're entitled to stop someone from doing the thing that makes you uncomfortable. Especially when you have some simple alternatives to putting up with it, like going someplace else or simply not looking at them.
And you can, whenever you are at home, or at the home of like-minded friends.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Francis on Wednesday August 24 2016, @05:42PM
And yet, men get in all sorts of trouble from women from adjusting ourselves when we need to.
Either it's OK to do the things that are natural and largely unavoidable, or it isn't. Considering the huge stink that women have made over things like checking them out and adjusting ourselves when we need to, I don't think it's unreasonable to hold them to a similar standard. Since we're expected to make them feel comfortable and welcome in public, it seems perfectly fair to expect them to avoid doing things that make us feel uncomfortable and unwelcome in public.
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Wednesday August 24 2016, @06:04PM
Why does breastfeeding make you feel uncomfortable and unwelcome?
Now, if we're talking about radfems who think that assigned males have no right to witness such a holy activity because it'll make 'em rapey, that's another thing.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JNCF on Wednesday August 24 2016, @06:34PM
I'm not sure why breastfeeding makes you so uncomfortable (I suspect it's cultural). When I see a woman breastfeeding in public, I don't read anything sexual into it. I was also raised around women who breastfed. When discussing double standards of nakedness, it's actually way more socially acceptable in our culture for men to walk around topless -- not less. If you're adjusting your junk because your pants are uncomfortable and somebody freaks out about it, that's just them reading their own mental noise into your perfectly non-creepy actions. If on the other hand somebody has a habit of rubbing their crotch in public while staring at people, I think small societies can generally figure out who amongst them is being creepy and deal with the situation accordingly. I'm with jdavidb in opposing monolithic standards.
If people are accusing you of creepiness without good cause, that sucks. The answer to that problem is not a ban on public breastfeeding.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Francis on Wednesday August 24 2016, @11:19PM
It almost certainly is cultural. Just like how some other cultures used to banish women when they were having their period.
I don't think it would be as much of an issue if more women would just admit that there's an element of education here. It's not really acceptable to just tell men that they need to SIU when women have been behaving like whiny little children over equally natural things that men do. I wish I had the option of excusing myself to the restroom everytime I needed to adjust myself, but that's not how the male body works. If those balls or the penis need adjusting, they tend to need it right then, two minutes later and there's nothing to do about it shy of completely removing the pants to do a proper readjustment.
It's literally acceptable for women to publicly call for men to be castrated, but somehow it's not OK for men to expect that we be shown the same level of courtesy when it comes to things that we'd rather not have to see.
Lastly, this whole breastfeeding in public thing is a relatively new development in America. It's not something that was a common thing when I was a kid, and the rules and norms don't really exist. I think there'd be a lot less resistance to it if there weren't the self-entitlement going on. Have a real dialog about it. Actually let men have our own opinions and stop being such whiny hypocrites about it.
I'm not really surprised that I'm being modded into oblivion. Female privilege isn't something that women like to admit to.
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday August 25 2016, @12:05AM
It's literally acceptable for women to publicly call for men to be castrated,
Citation needed. Of course you can find people arguing the point, but I doubt you can find numbers showing that most of society finds the argument acceptable. If you can find legit numbers, I'll eat crow. I just don't think you can.
I'm not really surprised that I'm being modded into oblivion. Female privilege isn't something that women like to admit to.
I doubt that there are many women modding on SoylentNews. Some, yes. I'd bet good money that it's significantly less than the proportion of women in the general population, though. Attributing your down-modding to the inclinations of women seems silly. I'm pretty sure that you're getting down-modded because you keep using terms like "whiny little children" when referring to women, and modders (mostly men) are finding you to be trollish and flamebaity. Don't flamebait and you shouldn't get modded Flamebait. I think the culture of SoylentNews is generally pretty reluctant to down-mod people based on the views that comments express, as long as they are not worded with the intent to provoke. You can find exceptions, but they are exactly that (and they usually get corrected). I suspect that you could argue for the genocide of an entire race or gender without getting down-modded on most days, so long as you did it in the most calm and dispassionate way possible and it wasn't off-topic (Disagree isn't a down-mod, it's +0). If your argument is novel, you might even get modded Interesting.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 24 2016, @09:24PM
You're entitled to feel uncomfortable. That doesn't mean you're entitled to stop someone from doing the thing that makes you uncomfortable.
Yes, you are. After all, isn't that the argument which makes rape (and numerous other violent-but-non-fatal crimes) illegal?
There is a trade-off between how uncomfortable it makes others versus how societal benefit.
Especially when you have some simple alternatives to putting up with it
With this qualifier, I'm prepared to agree with your statement.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 25 2016, @01:35AM
I would propose that there's a difference between physical violence and psychic violence, and it's not just one of degree. In particular, when I've been subjected to physical violence, doing things like asking my inner Iron John for help haven't really done a lot of good. The inner Iron John works better against psychic violence.
In a roundabout way of saying, perhaps there's a tiny difference between feeling offended and being violently assaulted by somebody twice your size. It's difficult for various mantras and wtf to make somebody twice your size who has you pinned and is violating you go away.
(Score: 3, Informative) by jdavidb on Wednesday August 24 2016, @04:28PM
The answer is that women shouldn't be allowed to do that.
Why shouldn't Starbucks be allowed to allow breastfeeding in their facilities if they want? I don't believe in slavery, so I don't believe in telling Starbucks, or women, or anyone else what to do.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 1) by Francis on Wednesday August 24 2016, @05:45PM
Because that's a public space where more than one sex is allowed to be. There's all sorts of other things that they require as well, but you don't hear people bitching about the typical no shoes, no shirt, no service policy. No shoes is arguably a sanitation thing, but no shirt has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than enforcing people's view that certain parts of the body ought to be covered.
I don't hear people complaining about that rule. And most people understand that allowing dogs into places of business isn't a good idea. Between the allergies, the people who hate dogs and the dogs that don't behave, there's ample reason to ban non-service animals from the premises.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Wednesday August 24 2016, @06:08PM
Because that's a public space where more than one sex is allowed to be.
I just don't agree that people should have control over the property of others - I don't believe we should get our way at the expense of the rights of others.
There's all sorts of other things that they require as well, but you don't hear people bitching about the typical no shoes, no shirt, no service policy. No shoes is arguably a sanitation thing, but no shirt has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than enforcing people's view that certain parts of the body ought to be covered.
They should be able to do whatever they want because they own the place, and if somebody wants something else then a competitor can provide it if anyone is willing.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday August 25 2016, @07:36AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jdavidb on Wednesday August 24 2016, @04:29PM
The point is that men are entitled to feel uncomfortable with women breast feeding in public and women need to just accept that. Men give up enough stuff because women are whiny and self-centered as it is, I think we ought to be entitled to feel comfortable from time to time.
Of course they are entitled to feel uncomfortable, but that doesn't give them rights at the expense of anyone else's right to life, liberty, or property. Property owners ought to be able to make their own decisions about what is an isn't allowed on their property (enforced at their own expense), and then people who are that uncomfortable can pick a different restaurant.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday August 24 2016, @05:13PM
I thought (straight) men LIKED boobs, though. What makes you uncomfortable exactly? The fact that it's some other man's child, not yours?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 24 2016, @06:57PM
What makes you uncomfortable exactly? The fact that it's some other man's child, not yours?
I suspect, in Francis' case, it is just the fact that it is some other child, and not him. Poor Francis, I think he needs some adjustment.
(Score: 2) by Snow on Wednesday August 24 2016, @08:01PM
I get uncomfortable because I'm trying to get a peek of their boob without seeming like I'm trying to get a peek!
I'm not against it at all for the record. Anything that increases boobs in public I am all for.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Wednesday August 24 2016, @08:47PM
I'm not against it at all. anecdote, not data, but I got the breast milk for 18 months -- no allergies, rarely have a cold, etc. etc. However, what you say is at least close to the truth. I feel uncomfortable because seeing someone in public breast feeding is the type of thing will often cause a double take, that double take makes you look pervy, and the embarrassment comes from being thought of as pervy.
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Wednesday August 24 2016, @08:54PM
I get uncomfortable because I'm trying to get a peek of their boob without seeming like I'm trying to get a peek!
I think you're being serious. I'm not sure of that (you may just be trying to mock Francis?), but if so then that means you're the guy that this AC wants to put in the sex offender registry. [soylentnews.org] Me, I don't believe in sex offender registries. I think that the Venn diagram of "people who are sketchy enough to belong in a registry," and "people who are safe enough to allow in society," is shaped like a pair of boobs -- which is to say, the circles don't overlap.
You weren't by any chance bottle-fed, [soylentnews.org] were you?
(Score: 2) by Snow on Wednesday August 24 2016, @09:45PM
I am being serious -- I'm a huge fan of boobs! When they are on display, it's really hard not to look.
I'm not going to go all rapey or anything just because I see boobs, and I wouldn't stand there in front of them with drool running down my chin.
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Wednesday August 24 2016, @10:15PM
I'm a huge fan of boobs!
Amen! But for some of us, context matters.
When they are on display, it's really hard not to look.
This is an admission of a thought pattern that some parts of society find distasteful, and I think it's healthy for people to feel comfortable talking about those sorts of thoughts. Your last post was also an admission of behavior, and a support of society reshaping itself to allow you to engage in that behavior more. I'm sure that we all sometimes view people in a sexual light when they don't intend to present themselves that way, but the purposeful engagement and pursuit of that experience comes off as verging on voyeuristic. If I found myself drawn to that experience I would like to think that I'd try to stop the thought pattern, not reinforce it by acting out the behavior.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 24 2016, @05:31PM
Men need to adjust ourselves in public far more than women need to breast feed in public.
What are you talking about? You need to grab your junk in public every couple hours?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 1) by Francis on Wednesday August 24 2016, @05:38PM
Yes, I do, because sitting on your balls is fucking painful. And god help you if you get an erection. That's extremely painful if the penis isn't in the right orientation when it happens or it gets caught in an awkward position midway through.
It's a double standard, women want to be able to breast feed in public because it's "natural" but it's not anymore natural than men having to adjust themselves from time to time and at least women have the option of planning for it. There's not much we can do to plan for when our balls or penis get in a position where it's painful if we don't adjust.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday August 24 2016, @06:27PM
Intelligent Design! :D :D :D
But, seriously...weird as this sounds I'm all for it. I think men should be allowed to. Just use some sanitizer afterwards because ick.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 24 2016, @06:36PM
Wearing the correct underwear helps. Briefs hold everything in place, kind of like a bra. Boxers let everything hang, and long term use can result in your sack drooping down to knee level. Do you want firm plums or a Newton's cradle?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by kurenai.tsubasa on Wednesday August 24 2016, @07:20PM
I can definitely sympathize. Along the lines of what AC posted, perhaps try different styles of undergarment.
The other thing I might be able to offer, if you were aggressively mutilated at birth, and I have no idea whether this will help somebody who has a male level of testosterone or not… all I know is that after switching to a different anti-androgen I began to have unwanted erections again, and this was the answer.
Perhaps try an artificial foreskin. No need to get fancy and buy one of those $100 devices or go hog wild about foreskin restoration (personally I think it's hooey since there's more to a foreskin than just skin). Just something to protect the part of the glans that's going to be in frequent contact with clothing. With boxers, that would obviously be the top half. (Haven't worn briefs since being a kid.) Something decent but disposable can be made with $3 medical tape.
I'm completely out on a limb for that one, though. I discussed it with a guy friend I'm very close to but he didn't seem interested and doesn't seem to have complaints about unwanted erections.
I'm honestly wondering if this is some side effect of circumcision where way too much tissue is removed or what (as if any amount were acceptable). It's definitely something nobody wants to talk about. But thankfully, here we are on the internet!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 24 2016, @10:25PM
That may well be your most solipsistic post ever.
But I totally think taking an anti-androgen would solve all of Francis's problems.
(Score: 3, Touché) by kurenai.tsubasa on Wednesday August 24 2016, @10:58PM
And this may be your stupidest reply to one of my comments ever.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 24 2016, @09:01PM
My guess is that you haven't yet grown enough of a pair for this to be an issue for you. Just sayin'.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 24 2016, @06:06PM
So only men are uncomfortable with breast feeding? Or are you projecting? It's the latter of course (duh!). Breast feeding is not a big deal. If the baby is hungry, whip out that titty! I'm not gonna complain and neither do real men.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 24 2016, @06:25PM
One of those things can be planned for and the other can't.
So we can plan when kids get hungry? My wife will be happy when I tell her that tonight - maybe she can actually start getting some sleep on a regular basis. Some nights our youngest (almost 3 months) only wants to eat once overnight. Others he decides he is starving at 11PM, 1:25AM, 2:15AM, 3:15AM and then finally sleeps till 6.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 24 2016, @07:14PM
> Men give up enough stuff because women are whiny and self-centered as it is
Sounds like the problem here is the nut behind the wheel.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 25 2016, @04:42PM
Apparently Francis needs to keep adjusting those.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 24 2016, @10:07PM
The point is that men are entitled
Translation: Men are better than women and women need to shut the fuck up and make sure that they don't make their betters (men, that is) uncomfortable or in any other way inconvenience them.
Another bright light of the twelfth century holds forth for our benefit. Thanks Francis [youtube.com].
What else needs to be said?