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posted by martyb on Friday August 26 2016, @10:37PM   Printer-friendly
from the beware-Roy-Rogers'-horse? dept.

Recent reporting and discussions here about "trolls" and the "culture of hate" (both con and pro) have repeatedly broached the topic of what appropriate limits to free expression might be.

Dean of Students John Ellison at the University of Chicago has taken a stand on the issue in a letter welcoming new students. He writes:

Once here you will discover that one of the University of Chicago's defining characteristics is our commitment to freedom of inquiry and expression. [...] Members of our community are encouraged to speak, write, listen, challenge, and learn, without fear of censorship. Civility and mutual respect are vital to all of us, and freedom of expression does not mean the freedom to harass or threaten others. You will find that we expect members of our community to be engaged in rigorous debate, discussion, and even disagreement. At times this may challenge you and even cause discomfort.

Our commitment to academic freedom means that we do not support so called 'trigger warnings,' we do not cancel invited speakers because their topics might prove controversial, and we do not condone the creation of intellectual 'safe spaces' where individuals can retreat from ideas and perspectives at odds with their own.

While some have voiced support for Ellison's commitment to free expression (with Robby Soave at Reason encouraging readers to give the dean "a round of applause"), others are concerned about the implications of his message. L.V. Anderson at Slate agrees with much of the letter's content promoting "civility and mutual respect," but finds the last paragraph quoted above to be "weird" and unsettling:

By deriding "safe spaces" and "trigger warnings" before students arrive on campus, the University of Chicago is inadvertently sending a message that certain students—the ones who have never been traumatized, and the ones who have historically felt welcome on college campuses (i.e., white men)—are more welcome than others, and that students who feel marginalized are unlikely to have their claims taken seriously. Adults who decry "the coddling of the American mind" will likely celebrate U. Chicago's preemptive strike against political correctness, but students who have experienced violence, LGBTQ students, and students of color likely will not.


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 27 2016, @12:57AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 27 2016, @12:57AM (#393790)

    > we do not cancel invited speakers because their topics might prove controversial

    Yeah, they just don't invite them in the first place.
    How unacceptable that people who weren't consulted might get a veto after the elite few have decided for them.

  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday August 27 2016, @01:13AM

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 27 2016, @01:13AM (#393799) Journal

    Yeah, they just don't invite them in the first place.
    How unacceptable that people who weren't consulted might get a veto after the elite few have decided for them.

    Just about everyone has the power to invite speakers to a campus not some imaginary elite. And people who weren't consulted shouldn't get a veto - because it's none of their business.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 27 2016, @01:31AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 27 2016, @01:31AM (#393810)

      > Just about everyone has the power to invite speakers to a campus not some imaginary elite.

      Shows how little you know. Speaker invitations always go through an approval process. Essentially all of the cases where speakers were protested (Condaleeza Rice, Bill Maher, etc) were cases where the speakers where chosen and approved by a small committee.

      Just try inviting David Duke, Steve Drain or Anjem Choudary and watch them get blocked.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday August 27 2016, @01:50AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 27 2016, @01:50AM (#393821) Journal

        Speaker invitations always go through an approval process.

        And my point is that just about anyone can create their own approval process, approve their own speakers, and invite them. If you want the speaker to use university resources, you can appropriate them from a variety of sources not just the "small committee". For example, one of my college advisors had no trouble inviting an advocate for Velikovsky catastrophe theory though the speaker had to give a talk on his engineering work first (design and attitude control of military helicopters). I assure you he didn't go anywhere near official channels on that second talk, just signed up for a vacant auditorium and did it.

        People forget the informality that almost all colleges have. You don't have to get a note from mommy for most of this stuff.

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Saturday August 27 2016, @02:06AM

          by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday August 27 2016, @02:06AM (#393829) Journal

          my college advisors had no trouble inviting an advocate for Velikovsky catastrophe theory

          Wait, is this where all the crazy "electric universe" stuff posted here has been coming from? Say it ain't so, khallow!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 27 2016, @02:22AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 27 2016, @02:22AM (#393835)

          So your counter example is actually of someone who did go through an approval committee?
          And his oh-so controversial belief was that the earth suffered near passes with other planets?
          Are you for real? Are we even having the same conversation?
          Get back to us when your advisor successfully invites in someone to lecture on the superiority of the white race and why mud people should be put on a reservation.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday August 27 2016, @03:40AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 27 2016, @03:40AM (#393848) Journal

            So your counter example is actually of someone who did go through an approval committee? And his oh-so controversial belief was that the earth suffered near passes with other planets? Are you for real? Are we even having the same conversation?

            Yes, this demonstrates the nonsense of the assertion that there's some elite group preventing speakers from appearing on campus.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday August 27 2016, @04:06AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 27 2016, @04:06AM (#393857) Journal

            Get back to us when your advisor successfully invites in someone to lecture on the superiority of the white race and why mud people should be put on a reservation.

            And of course, your post wouldn't be complete without an irrelevant, irrational appeal to racism. I guess I just didn't fully realize that the only possible reason we could possibly have for bypassing the infamous elite "small committees" is to preserve the sanctity and superiority of the white race! I'm so educated now!

  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday August 27 2016, @01:57AM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 27 2016, @01:57AM (#393826) Journal

    And, you are advocating that the nuts run the asylum? Students don't get a voice in the administration of the college - more news at 11:00.

    • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday August 27 2016, @02:14AM

      by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday August 27 2016, @02:14AM (#393834) Journal

      And, you are advocating that the nuts run the asylum?

      Strange you would say this, Mr. Runaway1956, inmate #2926! Have you checked your mod points lately? All I am saying is that this method seems to work fine for SoylentNews. Buzzards excepted, of course.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday August 27 2016, @05:10AM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 27 2016, @05:10AM (#393864) Journal

        And, how many karma points do you think I have?

        I'll tell you a secret. You and I are vocal members of this community, but the community includes a lot of people who are less vocal.

        There are more vocal members who lean liberal here, than there are vocal members who lean right. My views appeal more to the right than they do to the left, so there is a lot of vocal opposition to my views. But, at moderation time, my karma stays pretty high.

        Oh, I take a hit now and then. Yes, I surely do, because my views aren't really right - I'm an independent who leans libertarian. So, my views sometimes don't appeal to either left or right. But, at the end of the day, when a discussion is closed up, I have more +mods than -mods, almost always.

        And, for that you should be grateful. Your views are heard, my views are heard, and both are judged by the community. And, no, I don't maintain a half dozen sock puppet accounts to maintain my karma - don't even ask.

        I do remember a couple incidents of "mod bombing". Someone or other saved up his mod points, and went through my posts, and modded "spam" until he ran out of points. That was rather funny - the guy spent all that time and energy as well as his mod points, only to be shown a fool when the staff got on his arse.

        But, tell me something, Aristarchus. Are you here to be "popular"? I happen to be somewhat popular, I guess, or my karma would be around zero. But that's NOT the reason I am here. I would have the same things to say if my karma were -50. How 'bout you?

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Saturday August 27 2016, @07:46PM

          by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday August 27 2016, @07:46PM (#394018) Journal

          Popular? You are popular? More like infamous!! But the traditional position about publicity is that it doesn't matter what people are saying about you, as long as they are talking about you.

          Here to be popular? Me? I don't even know who I am.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 27 2016, @02:29AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 27 2016, @02:29AM (#393837)

      > Students don't get a voice in the administration of the college

      Did you not attend college?
      Of course they get a voice. That's part of the college experience.
      Self-governance, challenging authority, etc in college it is all practice for doing it in real life.

      It is so weird that you conceive of college students as simultaneously incompetent "nuts" and fully adult mighty intellectual warriors.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 27 2016, @05:38PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 27 2016, @05:38PM (#393984)

        It is so weird that you conceive of college students as simultaneously incompetent "nuts" and fully adult mighty intellectual warriors.

        There's no contradiction in saying that a lot of college students are incompetent nuts and also saying that that shouldn't be the case.