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posted by janrinok on Friday September 02 2016, @06:39AM   Printer-friendly
from the notorious dept.

Common Dreams reports

Reviled Florida State Attorney Angela Corey lost her reelection bid on [August 30], prompting widespread celebration as the woman The Nation once suggested was "the cruelest prosecutor in America" was ousted.

"Corey's loss is an encouraging sign that the public will no longer tolerate overzealous and unprincipled criminal prosecutions, including women and children", University of Miami law professor Mary Anne Franks said in a statement.

Corey, whose eight-year tenure in Florida's Fourth Judicial Circuit Court saw her charge 77 children as adults in 2016 alone and sentence more people to death than any other Florida prosecutor, gained widespread notoriety for her inadequate prosecution of Trayvon Martin's killer, George Zimmerman, and for seeking a 60-year sentence for Marissa Alexander, a domestic violence survivor with three children, for firing a warning shot in the direction of her abusive husband. (Alexander spent three years in prison.)

[...] Corey was defeated by unknown opponent and corporate lawyer Melissa Nelson, who will now face off with write-in candidate Kenny Leigh in the general election--although Jacksonville media noted that no write-in candidate has ever been elected to the state attorney position in Florida, and that Leigh has yet to make a single campaign appearance.


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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by tangomargarine on Friday September 02 2016, @02:03PM

    by tangomargarine (667) on Friday September 02 2016, @02:03PM (#396654)

    she's not serving in the Coast Guard or Air Force, and so it just isn't OK to be firing bullets in randomish directions in a populated area. Somebody could get hit.

    Fine, but 60 years?

    And I would assume that they would then give custody of the kids to the spouse who was domestically abusing her. Terrific.

    --
    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
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  • (Score: 1) by Francis on Friday September 02 2016, @02:13PM

    by Francis (5544) on Friday September 02 2016, @02:13PM (#396660)

    He was an alleged abuser and since that case was in the past, I'm guessing that it's not yet been proven in court.

    Sometimes unstable women make up lies like that in order to justify their own abusive behavior. And because you're guilty until proven innocent when it comes to crimes like that, it can completely ruin a man's life even if he hasn't done anything wrong. And BTW, women are just as likely to be abusers as men are, but are significantly more likely to engage in dating violence and physical violence than men are.

    It's just that they get a free pass because of their genitals.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 02 2016, @02:37PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 02 2016, @02:37PM (#396666)

      > Sometimes unstable women make up lies like that in order to justify their own abusive behavior.

      And sometimes unstable men admit their guilt and then retract their confession when they realize the consequences of their honesty.
      Like her husband did.

      So, on one hand she does not get the benefit of the doubt because unspecified "unstable women" and on the other hand he's on record changing his story when it would be most convenient for him to do so.

    • (Score: 1, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 02 2016, @03:06PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 02 2016, @03:06PM (#396671)

      And BTW, women are just as likely to be abusers as men are

      Women are actually more likely to be abusers [saveservices.org] than men, but they get a "free pass" because men are scared to come forward [bbc.co.uk] and admit to being abuse victims, because admitting to being on the receiving end of abuse is a threat to their manliness or something, not because women have vaginas.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 02 2016, @04:09PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 02 2016, @04:09PM (#396678)

        Why should I believe some pussy who can't handle his wife? Oh help help I'm bein repressed by the little old lady! Yeah, right. Pussy.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday September 02 2016, @05:36PM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday September 02 2016, @05:36PM (#396716) Journal

          I know men who have been abused by women, one of whom is a close friend from college. The above is exactly right: men refuse to come forward precisely because of the attitude people like you have ("what a pussy! control your woman!"). If you can't spot at least three different kinds of toxicity in there you have a problem; you harm women AND men with that bullshit.

          This should be a simple question of humanism. People who themselves are part of oppressed groups SHOULD NOT support it when someone else is suffering the same things. Individual identity comes before group affiliation. It's unbelievable the kind of flack I've taken for pointing this out from people who are supposedly working for improving the lot of humanity. I've been called "traitor to the lesbian race" (yes, this is a direct quote!) for daring to suggest that trans* people are human and not insane, that plenty of men are suffering from the patriarchy, and that some women are horrible fucking people too.

          Makes me want to just go live on top of a mountain somewhere :( Why is this hard for people?!

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 02 2016, @11:17PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 02 2016, @11:17PM (#396811)

            > People who themselves are part of oppressed groups SHOULD NOT support it when someone else is suffering the same things.

            If you believed that you wouldn't be such a raging islamofoe.

            "Oh, but XXXX are different. They aren't decent people." Said every hypocritical bigot ever.

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday September 04 2016, @04:25AM

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday September 04 2016, @04:25AM (#397265) Journal

              I've got no problems with Muslims. I have a problem with Islam. Ditto for s/Muslims/Christians/ and s/Islam/Christianity/ too. One more time: you can have sympathy for the plague victims and still take bio-safety measures.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 04 2016, @03:55PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 04 2016, @03:55PM (#397415)

                > I've got no problems with Muslims. I have a problem with Islam.

                Wow.
                You've adopted the exact argument you rail against without even the barest flicker of self-realization.

                "I've got not problems with homosexuals, I have a problem with homosexuality."

                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday September 05 2016, @12:08AM

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday September 05 2016, @12:08AM (#397573) Journal

                  If someone has a problem with me being gay, that's fine with me. If they have a problem with me personally, they'd best keep it to themselves. Their right to swing their fists, literal or metaphorical, ends where my face, literal or metaphorical, begins. They can hate me all they want in their hearts, but I'm *still* gonna marry my girlfriend. If they don't like it, that's their right.

                  See how that works? That whole "I disagree with you but will defend your right to say these things to the death?" This is how grownups act.

                  --
                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 05 2016, @04:22AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 05 2016, @04:22AM (#397669)

                    . They can hate me all they want in their hearts, but I'm *still* gonna marry my girlfriend.

                    You really don't get it, do you?

                    It's that hate in their hearts which enables society to make it illegal for you to marry your girlfriend. Opinions do not exist in a vacuum, they are the basis for how society treats individuals.

                    I'm pretty confident you do actually get it. I've seen you take down Runaway for the exact same rhetoric about gays. He never attacked you personally, he was just selling the hate against gay people in the generic. Just like you sell hate against muslims in the generic.

                    > That whole "I disagree with you but will defend your right to say these things to the death?" This is how grownups act.

                    Do not try to turn criticism of your opinions into a 1st amendment issue. That's Sarah Palinesque.
                    Your right to be an asshole, is not a right to remain criticism-free and is certainly not required of you.

      • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday September 02 2016, @05:17PM

        by NotSanguine (285) <NotSanguineNO@SPAMSoylentNews.Org> on Friday September 02 2016, @05:17PM (#396708) Homepage Journal

        And BTW, women are just as likely to be abusers as men are

        Women are actually more likely to be abusers than men, but they get a "free pass" because men are scared to come forward and admit to being abuse victims, because admitting to being on the receiving end of abuse is a threat to their manliness or something, not because women have vaginas.

        The genetic evidence [jrbenjamin.com] strongly implies otherwise.

        --
        No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
        • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday September 02 2016, @05:52PM

          by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 02 2016, @05:52PM (#396727) Journal

          Anthropologists say (once said?) that among the Kalahari Bushmen the rates of abuse are about equal, with men being slightly the dominant abusers, probably because they average stronger.

          Now the Bushmen had no courts and laws regulating behavior, and the anthropologists were not members of the tribe, so possibly not someone you had to be ashamed in front of. So I tend to accept that frequency as approximately accurate. And the Bushmen are, or were, essentially egalitarian.

          Therefore, if women are more likely to abuse men than the other way around, I would suspect that it's because they live under increased stress. And I don't think that there is evidence that men are genetically more inspired to commit abuse, except by usually being larger and more powerful.

          --
          Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
          • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday September 02 2016, @06:00PM

            by NotSanguine (285) <NotSanguineNO@SPAMSoylentNews.Org> on Friday September 02 2016, @06:00PM (#396733) Homepage Journal

            And I don't think that there is evidence that men are genetically more inspired to commit abuse, except by usually being larger and more powerful.

            Please read the article [jrbenjamin.com] I linked.

            If you think genes don’t matter for how people behave, consider this amazing fact: if you are a carrier of a particular set of genes, your probability of committing a violent crime goes up by eight hundred and eighty-two percent.

            ...

            By the way, as regards that dangerous set of genes, you’ve probably heard of them. They are summarized as the Y chromosome. If you’re a carrier, we call you a male.”

              [emphasis added]

            --
            No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
            • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Francis on Friday September 02 2016, @09:50PM

              by Francis (5544) on Friday September 02 2016, @09:50PM (#396794)

              Not really, I have to say this, but, correlation is not causation. People who wind up in prison for violent crimes have a lot of other things in common. Or other situations that commonly occur to them. Things like poverty, exposure to toxic chemicals in childhood, abuse, drug abuse and a lack of positive view of their future.

              The evidence isn't there to demonstrate that this gene is the cause as in other places, like Europe, they have similar levels of property crimes, but violent crimes are not anywhere near the levels they are in the US. If it's this gene, then how do you explain that disparity in the violent crime statistics? A huge proportion of Americans came from Europe and one would assume would have similar genes to what they have in Europe.

              The reason is most likely that they don't allow boys to be abused the way that they are in the US. They don't allow children to go hungry or to do without necessary education. When criminals are sent to prison, there's a lot more consideration paid to rehabilitation than there is to punishment and their recidivism rates tend to be lower.

              In short, the whole idea that this is genetic, requires a lot more support. And I wouldn't personally, take the research of anthropologists seriously as they clearly don't understand how the brain works.

              • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday September 02 2016, @10:01PM

                by NotSanguine (285) <NotSanguineNO@SPAMSoylentNews.Org> on Friday September 02 2016, @10:01PM (#396798) Homepage Journal

                Not really, I have to say this, but, correlation is not causation. People who wind up in prison for violent crimes have a lot of other things in common. Or other situations that commonly occur to them. Things like poverty, exposure to toxic chemicals in childhood, abuse, drug abuse and a lack of positive view of their future.

                I never said otherwise. I merely pointed out (or rather the link I posted did), that having a 'Y' chromosome is an excellent predictor (by an order of magnitude) of violent behavior.

                Other factors, of course, apply. However, as I mentioned previously, you were complaining about *women*, not poverty or other environmental factors.

                --
                No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
              • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday September 02 2016, @10:05PM

                by NotSanguine (285) <NotSanguineNO@SPAMSoylentNews.Org> on Friday September 02 2016, @10:05PM (#396799) Homepage Journal

                The reason is most likely that they don't allow boys to be abused the way that they are in the US. They don't allow children to go hungry or to do without necessary education. When criminals are sent to prison, there's a lot more consideration paid to rehabilitation than there is to punishment and their recidivism rates tend to be lower.

                In short, the whole idea that this is genetic, requires a lot more support. And I wouldn't personally, take the research of anthropologists seriously as they clearly don't understand how the brain works.

                As I have said several times, environmental factors are almost certainly at work here as well.

                If you wanted to have a discussion about why people are violent then have that discussion, rather than getting on your bullshit MRA stalking horse.

                --
                No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
                • (Score: 1) by Francis on Friday September 02 2016, @11:51PM

                  by Francis (5544) on Friday September 02 2016, @11:51PM (#396816)

                  So, in other words, you're an idiot.

                  Bottom line here is that there's ample reason to believe that women are getting off easy here where men aren't. Boys aren't provided with the kind of safe living environment that girls are, aren't provided with support growing up and if they do commit an offense, they're more likely to be convicted and spend more time in prison than women that commit similar crimes.

                  That's not an MRA stalking horse, that's an accurate reflection of what's going on. You're the one that brought up that pointless bullshit that has little to do with the current situation, not me.

            • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Saturday September 03 2016, @07:52PM

              by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 03 2016, @07:52PM (#397109) Journal

              I wouldn't argue with his figures, but his reasoning connecting it directly to genes and ignoring various social and cultural pressures is unconvincing. This is the old argument summarized as "nature vs. nurture" and there are lots of reasons why it's difficult to resolve, and that's one of the reasons I looked at as different a culture as I could find for my "baseline".

              OTOH, it's true that the genes of men tend to make them more "vigorous", taller, stronger, and more willing to take risks. These factors in combination with social and other cultural pressures will often cause violence to be more common among men. But the link to violence being directly genetic is, at best, unproven, and quite difficult to even try to prove. It is traditional to assume the link, and there is some evidence indicating that it might be real. I cannot take his bland assertion that it is as valid, and the form of his argument is not linked to genetic mechanisms, but rather to social mechanisms. Also please note that he is a professor of psychology, not of genetics or physiology, so the form of his argument is what would be expected.

              --
              Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
              • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Saturday September 03 2016, @08:31PM

                by NotSanguine (285) <NotSanguineNO@SPAMSoylentNews.Org> on Saturday September 03 2016, @08:31PM (#397124) Homepage Journal

                It is traditional to assume the link, and there is some evidence indicating that it might be real. I cannot take his bland assertion that it is as valid, and the form of his argument is not linked to genetic mechanisms, but rather to social mechanisms

                Those with a 'Y' chromosome are much more likely to commit crime. [telegraph.co.uk] Full Stop.

                From the linked article:

                There are 84,731 people in prison in Britain and according to the latest figures, 80,915 of them are men. Less than five per cent of this country’s prison population is female, and the trend is similar elsewhere in the western world. In France, it’s about three per cent; in Germany, just under six. The global median is 4.3 per cent, according to figures from the International Centre for Prison Studies.

                Holding other factors constant, having a 'Y' chromosome is an excellent predictor of criminal activity.

                How strong the genetic component is may be an open question, but across vastly different human cultures this observation holds true.

                More relevant discussion can be had here [theatlantic.com].

                You can argue the nature vs. nurture angle all you want, but Dr. Eagleman's statement [jrbenjamin.com] (quoted from this book [amazon.com]):

                In other words, if you carry these genes, you’re eight times more likely to commit aggravated assault, ten times more likely to commit murder, thirteen times more likely to commit armed robbery and forty-four times more likely to commit sexual assault.

                About one half of the human population carries these genes, while the other half does not, making the first half much more dangerous indeed. It’s not even a contest. The overwhelming majority of prisoners carry these genes, as do 98.4 percent of those on death row. It seems clear enough that the carriers are strongly predisposed to a different type of behavior – and everyone is coming to the table equally equipped in terms of drives and behavior.

                We’ll return to these genes in a moment, but first I want to tie the issue back to the main point we’ve seen throughout this book: we are not the ones driving the boat of our behavior, at least not nearly as much as we believe. Who we are runs well below the surface of our conscious access, and the details reach back in time to before our birth, when the meeting of a sperm and egg granted us with certain attributes and not others. Who we can be begins with our molecular blueprints – a series of alien codes penned in invisibly small strings of amino acids – well before we have anything to do with it. We are a product of our inaccessible, microscopic history.

                By the way, as regards that dangerous set of genes, you’ve probably heard of them. They are summarized as the Y chromosome. If you’re a carrier, we call you a male.” [emphasis added]

                David Eagleman is not a psychologist, but a neuroscientist [wikipedia.org].

                --
                No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 02 2016, @06:30PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 02 2016, @06:30PM (#396740)
            Perhaps the average woman is more likely to hit the average guy than the other way around. The last time I hit a girl was probably decades ago when I was a kid. However when guys actually hit people/stuff we tend to be more effective. From the playground to the gym you'd see most of us start practising earlier and for longer. I know some girls can punch and kick really well, but we are talking about the averages here.

            The thing is, in modern society a woman could hit you 10 times, significantly hurting you but you might get no help from the "justice system". But if you retaliate with a single blow, you'd probably spend a while behind bars.

            Of course there's a large minority of guys who beat their wives and girlfriends and they are the ones who bump up the statistics. Many women like dominant men or even "bad boy types" and being dominated so that tendency is going to stay in the gene pool.
        • (Score: 1) by Francis on Friday September 02 2016, @09:43PM

          by Francis (5544) on Friday September 02 2016, @09:43PM (#396793)

          It implies no such thing.

          The brain is a complicated organ and genetics plays a relatively minor role in its development. Genetics dictate what you start with and to an extent what you get, but if it were a matter of genetics to the extent you're implying, then you wouldn't see the children of convicts growing up to be anything other than convicts. And you wouldn't see people being convicted that didn't have a bunch of relatives that had themselves being convicted.

          The fact of the matter is that other socioeconomic characteristics are much more helpful in predicting future criminal behavior, albeit not perfectly. A child that's brought up in a well-adjusted family unit with positive expectations for the future is in a much stronger position than one that grows up with nothing to lose and adapted by emotional issues from being abused.

      • (Score: 2) by CirclesInSand on Friday September 02 2016, @06:35PM

        by CirclesInSand (2899) on Friday September 02 2016, @06:35PM (#396742)

        Well there is also the fact that if police are called, and they know the woman started the violence (she even admits it), and they know the man was not violent at all, even if the man himself calls the police, the police will still remove the man from his own home because he is "the more dangerous" one.