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from the my-whoosh-is-bigger-than-yours dept.
Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:
FRANKFURT -- The gleaming white Porsche with menacing black trim took less than 8 minutes to complete the Nurburgring's demanding Nordschleife circuit. The result was respectable but not spectacular for a 600-hp beast that sprints from 0 to 62 mph in a little more than 3 seconds.
Unlike the Panamera production car, which can easily beat its lap time, the Mission E concept doesn't have camshafts, pistons or valves to mix air and fuel in a combustion chamber or a spark plug to ignite it. It runs on a current of pure electrons supplied by a lithium ion battery, and it can almost fully recharge itself within 15 minutes.
The Tesla Model S doesn't come anywhere close to those specs -- which is the point.
Porsche's 1 billion euro ($1.12 billion) gamble to lure Tesla owners from their beloved electric car is just one example of how much premium European automakers are investing to try and match their Silicon Valley-based rival. Tesla's zero-emissions sports sedan has made Europe's finest automakers look woefully behind the times in an area they typically dominate: technology. The question is whether established brands can win back the hearts and minds of car buyers seeking the next big thing.
Germany's best known sports car maker promises its Mission E, which was teased at last year's Frankfurt auto show, will be "an electric Porsche that deserves the name." That means it will be consistently fast over an extended period with no loss of performance despite repeated accelerating and braking. It is supposed to be the first zero-emissions car worthy of being taken to the racetrack.
Porsche, however, will need years before it can mass produce and sell its electric sports car at a decent profit. Meanwhile, Tesla will continue to deliver tens of thousands of its vaunted sedans and SUVs every year to wealthy progressives around the world, most likely at a loss. "I wish we had put that car on the road and not Tesla," confided a senior engineer at Porsche, not a brand typically prone to technological envy. "We have to earn money at the end of the day though."
[...] Moreover, reputational problems may catch up to it. Allegations have been leveled that Tesla tried to hide suspension flaws in the Model S from the public by forcing customers to sign nondisclosure agreements. More recently, a fatal accident has put its Autopilot in a negative spotlight. Also, when the Model 3 eventually debuts, Tesla will target more demanding consumers, who are not likely to be as forgiving when it comes to the inherent trade-offs of an electric car.
A senior automotive executive at Bosch is convinced that sooner or later Musk will not be able to maintain this startup style showmanship over substance: "At some point as they grow customers won't accept this and Tesla will have to adopt a zero-tolerance approach."
(Score: 2) by gringer on Wednesday September 07 2016, @07:34PM
a 600-hp beast that sprints from 0 to 62 mph in a little more than 3 seconds.... The Tesla Model S doesn't come anywhere close to those specs
Oh really?
With unparalleled performance delivered through Tesla's unique, all-electric powertrain, Model S accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in as little as 2.5 seconds.
From here [tesla.com]. I admit that the charge time of 15 minutes is a good statistic against Tesla's supercharger 1h15m for 300 miles of range — 15 minute charge time for Tesla is estimated to give 100 miles of range — but apart from that, there's nothing in the article to suggest better specs for the Porsche.
Ask me about Sequencing DNA in front of Linus Torvalds [youtube.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by vux984 on Wednesday September 07 2016, @08:56PM
Oh really?
Yes. Really. And its the FIRST SENTENCE IN THE SUMMARY.
The Porsche made it around the Nurburgring in under 8 minutes.
The Tesla can't do that. And it doesn't come ANYWHERE CLOSE to that. It can't even make it around the circuit at full power, even if it could make it, it would STILL be about a minute slower.
The Tesla on that track:
“The lap itself was around 10 minutes Bridge to Gantry (in heavy traffic) but unfortunately the car went into a reduced power mode about 3 minutes in due to excess battery heat (at least, that’s my guess).”
http://insideevs.com/expected-tesla-model-s-fails-lap-nurburgring-full-power-video/ [insideevs.com]
So what's the difference between a Porsche and a Tesla? The Tesla can run flat out for 3 minutes; before it has to cut back. The Porsche can go the whole lap.
But to be fair, they also noted this pretty impressive performance level:
“However, before it did [cut back power] it was able to keep a GT3 RS going full chat, within shouting distance (at the 2:00 mark) far longer than any 4,700lb sedan has a right to.”
And they estimated:
"“I think without the reduced power output and traffic, a B-T-G lap under nine minutes is possible. According to the Bridge To Gantry site, that would put it in the company of some really quick hot hatches.”
Which means they think even without the engine cutting back, that it would still be minute slower than the Porsche.
I get that you like Tesla's; and there's no debating that it is an impressive vehicle. But just accept that Porsche Mission E is a performance step above the Telsa. Yes, the Tesla can do 0-60 faster, but the Porsche handles better, and can make it around the track much faster, and well... can actually run more than 3 minutes before cutting back. And like the Tesla its a 4 door sport sedan.
Here's what else the Tesla driver said about the ride... not exactly what a sports car enthusiast is looking for:
“Yes, it was heavy. Yes, it had almost no mechanical grip. And yes, the steering was as numb as my jaw after a trip to the dentist."
but apart from that, there's nothing in the article to suggest better specs for the Porsche.
Nurbugring laptimes IS a spec. And 2+ minutes faster is a big difference. Stock Porsche 911 and Ferrari F430 hang out just sub 8-minutes. Around 9 minutes where the Tesla would be without cutting back... Suzuki Swift Sport, Mini Cooper S, Porsche Boxster, VW Golf GTI
At the 10 minute mark... let's just say Top Gear had a race driver take a cube van around in 10:08. And that puts it into perspective.
(Score: 2) by gringer on Thursday September 08 2016, @08:04AM
Nurbugring laptimes IS a spec. And 2+ minutes faster is a big difference.
Thank you. Consider me suitably admonished.
Ask me about Sequencing DNA in front of Linus Torvalds [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Wednesday September 07 2016, @09:25PM
But...but.. *Porsche*: better. Telsa: not Porsche.
As with many fan(atic)s, the truth hurts, so avoid it.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex