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from the it's-electric-woogie-woogie-woogie dept.
The Chevrolet Bolt is one of the most anticipated cars of 2016. GM's first long-range battery electric vehicle is due to hit dealerships before the end of 2016 and beat Tesla's Model 3 to market as the first mass-market long-range BEV. There has been speculation until now as to the Bolt's actual range; on Tuesday morning, Chevrolet confirmed that you can expect an EPA-estimate of 238 miles on a full battery.
We're still not entirely sure how much the Bolt will cost, but Chevrolet says the MSRP will be under $37,500 before any rebates or tax incentives are taken into account. Since its 60kWh battery qualifies the Bolt for the most generous federal tax credit ($7,500), you should be able to pick one up for $30,000—slightly under the average US car price of $33,000.
The race to dominate the mass-market electric vehicle segment is on.
(Score: 2) by KilroySmith on Wednesday September 14 2016, @11:43PM
I've put a deposit down on a Tesla Model 3, but I wish Chevy well on this venture.
The Volt gets excellent reviews, as does the Bolt. I hope people buy enough of them to encourage Chevy (and, by extension, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc) to continue on the transformation from Oil-driven transportation to Electric-driven transportation. The size and styling of the Bolt isn't to my taste, so I won't be cancelling my Model 3 deposit and buying one.
I agree with opinionated_science above that we need a single charging standard. Right now, a Tesla is the only purely Battery powered car that you can expect to travel cross-country in, and it's a shame.
/frank
(Score: 1) by Francis on Thursday September 15 2016, @04:30AM
Charging standards are an issue, but the battery life needs to be better as well. Right now I get at least 200 miles on a tank of gas, but at that point it's like 5 minutes top to fuel up again and continue on my way. It still takes too damn long to charge a car battery for one of those things.
For in town, it's too much capacity, but for out of town it's not really enough either. Considering how long it takes to charge batteries, they're really going to need to get closer to 500 miles and get the price under 20k before they really start flying off the shelves.
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Thursday September 15 2016, @04:34AM
You don't stop for a meal, or even just a coffee after what is probably about 4 hours of driving?
(Score: 1) by Francis on Thursday September 15 2016, @05:59AM
No, I don't. I'll get out and stretch my legs for a few minutes, but you can't charge a car in that kind of short time. Plus, there's no particular guarantee that a restaurant I'd be interested in is in the same place as place to get fuel.
You're also assuming that you're able to drive the whole capacity of the battery. Around here, there are plenty of places where there isn't a gas station for dozens of miles or more and as such if you're not careful, you might well wind up halfway between gas stations. Charging stations are worse, and unlike gas, you have to have specialty equipment to bring it back to you. You can't just walk to the nearest gas station and bring a jerry can back.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by novak on Thursday September 15 2016, @07:37AM
No, absolutely not. Only four hours? Do you drive much?
I own two cars, one of which is a piece of shit from the 90s, and one of which is more reliable. I drive the shitty (affordable) one to work every day, and maintain it myself, which is very cheap- on average maybe $500 a year, including one car I got which is a bit of a lemon. Some of the others were vastly cheaper.
The other I drive occasionally, and every month or so I drive it 6-12 hours without stopping. It's not odd, I live 12 hours from my family, and I want to get there quickly. Sometimes we meet in other places or I go on trips with my wife. Most of the places we go we couldn't fly to even if we wanted to; they are 4+ hours from an airport.
Asking people to take a trip on your schedule is stupid. It would take me four stops at 200 miles each to get to where I'm from, and I would consider making at most one stop.
Still good news that electric cars are getting better, don't get me wrong. But we're probably ten plus years away from me thinking about buying one. The fuel savings and benefit to the environment are nice but 238 miles is actually not much different from my perspective than 50 miles, given charging times. And the cost. Let's not forget than non-electric cars start at less than half that price.
novak
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday September 15 2016, @01:10PM
That makes you an unusually driven driver, though. The average American commute is 23 miles, and commuting is the vast majority of driving that Americans do. When driving longer distances, it's normal to stop for a meal or to stretch your legs. 30 minutes after 4 hours driving is about the right interval to do that kind of thing.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday September 15 2016, @05:55AM
Right now, electric cars make awesome second cars. Most people (emphasis on "most") don't drive 500 miles every day (or even that often). 20 to 30 miles/day is much more common. With my driving needs in mind, earlier this year I got a 4 year old used Nissan Leaf as a second family car because they're really reasonably priced as used vehicles. There's about a 70 mile range left on the battery, I get 4.8 miles per kWhr (at 10 cents each), and my commute is 12 miles. I also have a gas car for towing a boat, a utility trailer, going places a 4wd is nice to have, longer trips -- even though it's a nice car, driving the Leaf is way more fun than an econobox is supposed to be. I can only imagine a Tesla - I'd get in so much trouble. Everyone who's tried the Leaf has gotten a big grin -- the zip from 5mph yo 40mph is so fun.
Anyway, I could totally get away with a car that has 230 mile range. Maybe once every other month I make a round trip of 180 miles. I'm old now and nothing could convince me to drive 500 miles in a day no matter how many podcasts or audiobooks I had loaded up. If I really really had to drive that far and had no other possible option, I could rent a car out of my gas savings (a gallon of gas to go 24 miles is about $3 here, but 5 kWhrs is only 50 or 60 cents).
(Score: 1) by Francis on Thursday September 15 2016, @06:01AM
Second car sure. But, having a second car is getting more and more problematic around here. There's no guarantee that you'll get one parking space when you rent an apartment, let alone two. And even if you do own a home, parking is getting increasingly tight as apartment complexes aren't required to have any parking at all and illegal multi-family rentals become more common.
Not to mention the mother-in-law apartments being built.
Electric cars are coming along, but they're a very long ways from where they need to be in order to have much appeal.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday September 15 2016, @01:17PM
"Electric cars are coming along, but they're a very long ways from where they need to be in order to have much appeal."
Speak for yourself. The main thing I need to switch to an electric car today is for them to be available in my price range. Our next car will be a Tesla Model 3--in a couple of years.
EVs are awesome to drive. Totally responsive, never lose ground on inclines, cruise control is instant and exact, acceleration is amazingly better than a gas car, and they are blessedly, blessedly quiet. I can hear my music (I like to listen to classical music while driving) and talk to my kids without our shouting ourselves hoarse.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Francis on Thursday September 15 2016, @02:37PM
It's hardly just me, most people do not live with easy access to a power outlet. Either they have street parking or they have a carport that doesn't include an outlet. On top of that, it doesn't make much sense to buy a car if you're going to be stuck renting vehicles if you want to take a road trip.
They are coming along, but they're nowhere near good enough for them to be useful to most drivers.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday September 15 2016, @03:05PM
Most people do live with easy access to a power outlet, because they have electricity. My brother-in-law recharges his BMW i3 with an extension cord he runs into the garage. Takes overnight, but it's the same muscle memory as plugging in his smart phone so he doesn't even think about it anymore--loves the convenience of never having to go to the gas station. My brother owns one, too, and charges it in his garage as well, but he did upgrade his wiring for a faster charge because he drives it for more than commuting, he loves it so much.
With apartment complexes and row houses in dense urban cores, you have a point. It would not surprise me much if in the next couple of years we see those apartment complexes install high speed charging points or people on urban blocks provide recharging at a reasonable rate. I know if I owned a building on such a block I certainly would--it's an easy supplemental revenue stream.
It's not unusual to own a small car for commuting and local driving, and rent something else for road trips. We took a road trip around the country this summer and saw lots and lots of people touring in bigger rental cars (Mustang convertibles were really popular) or mini RVs like Jucy [jucyusa.com]. Many of them seemed to be overseas tourists who flew into LA or someplace and wanted to see the US by car, cars they hadn't brought with them, so maybe that's why you haven't heard of it.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by Francis on Thursday September 15 2016, @08:04PM
Most people in the US do not have easy access to a power outlet near where they keep their car. Dirt is too expensive to give houses their own usable drive way and garage. Assuming that it's even possible. You're brother-in-law with the garage is in a much better place than most people are. It's not just the apartment complexes, even houses around here frequently don't have a place to keep the car next to a building, let alone one that's covered so that you can keep charging in the rain.
What's more, the people who don't live in those kinds of houses have a tendency to live in places that are further out where electric vehicles are even less reasonable as driving anywhere requires a goodly number of miles.
Perhaps in parts of the country that were recently developed, but have plenty of access to amenities that might be true, but that's a relatively small portion of the US.
(Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Thursday September 15 2016, @03:07PM
In the frozen north, outlets are common for parking spaces. Those are intended for block heaters though (450W each?).
Your plug at work may do multiplexing.
If you are using an 15 Amp outlet, you can't charge more than about 12kWh overnight. (12A*120V*8hours -- 80% de-rating for continuous draw)
(Score: 1) by Francis on Thursday September 15 2016, @08:06PM
Perhaps, but what sort of moron would be driving an electric car in that kind of environment? Batteries don't last very long in areas like that and keeping a charge on a cold day can be an issue.
(Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Thursday September 15 2016, @08:31PM
The Tesla Roadster has an 8000W cabin heater.
ICE vehicles stay cold for about 5-10 minutes until the engine warms up. By that time, you may be at your destination.
Of course, 8kW for 30minutes, would use like a third of your overnight charge. However, if you do the heat radiation calculations, you will find that if does not take that much power to maintain the cabin temperature.
(Score: 1) by Francis on Friday September 16 2016, @03:04AM
It's not the cabin temperature, it's the temperature of the batteries that matters.
And Tesla has had a huge amount of trouble as a result of their batteries not performing well in low temperatures. I'm not sure about the other manufacturers, but I doubt they're fairing much better with that.
(Score: 2) by fnj on Thursday September 15 2016, @06:41AM
Satisfy my curiosity. What piece of shit do you drive that only goes 200 miles to a tank? I ALWAYS get over 600; my record was 798.
(Score: 2) by AndyTheAbsurd on Thursday September 15 2016, @02:23PM
What do you drive that you're getting 600+ miles per tank? Are you hypermiling? Most cars are designed around the idea of getting 300 to 350 miles per tank; I've found it's pretty easy to extend that to a bit over 400 in most cars simply by maintaining them properly and not driving like an ass.
Please note my username before responding. You may have been trolled.