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posted by martyb on Tuesday October 04 2016, @12:04PM   Printer-friendly
from the I-see-what-they-did-there dept.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) is notoriously secretive about the inner workings of its ruling hierarchy, the First Presidency and Quorum of Twelve Apostles. With an estimated annual income in the billions and assets in the tens of billions, the church does not release financial statements to its members or the general public. The meetings and decision-making processes of the Mormon leaders are similarly undisclosed.

That changed Sunday when a group called Mormon Leaks posted more than a dozen videos to YouTube, containing briefing sessions with the hierarchy. The briefings were apparently recorded "live" and include candid comments and discussion from the apostles in attendance. The leak appeared to be timed to coincide with the church's semi-annual conference that took place over the weekend.

Ironically, one of the briefings discusses WikiLeaks and the possibility of a similar leak targeting the church, but the apostles shown in the video appear to more concerned about Chelsea (nee Bradley) Manning's sexuality than they are about threats to their own secrets.

One briefing that is particularly troubling was given by a former U.S. senator from Oregon, Gordon H. Smith. Smith, a member of the church, admits that he values obedience to the hierarchy and loyalty to the church more than he does his office. He also describes using his office and staff to gain political favors for the church, and justifies the Iraq War by claiming that it will allow Mormon missionaries access to Middle Eastern nations. At one point (around the 26 minute mark), Smith possibly reveals classified information to the group, or at least his willingness to do so.

The videos appear to come from the same whistle blower who leaked a trove of church documents on-line about a week ago. Those documents are here and the leaker has announced that many more are coming.


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 04 2016, @08:01PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 04 2016, @08:01PM (#410270)

    The lip service to freedom is nice, but Brigham Young used to hunt down and murder people who left his kingdom. (OK, he didn't by himself. That's what his "Destroying Angels" were for.)

    Even when no physical duress is used, the church (both historical and current) uses persuasive techniques that are no different that any other confidence game. It's easy to do when you control an entire culture (e.g. the Mormon belt in the inter-mountain west). How many young men really want to serve two year missions and how many go because of the pressure? How many people really want to pay the church 10% of their income, and and many do it just to keep a temple recommend so that they won't be shut out of family weddings? The societal pressure is intense.

    But yes, in modern Mormonism, people can leave. There is a huge social, emotional and familial cost to do this, however. Check out the many heartbreaking stories at exmormon.org [exmormon.org] for examples of the toll that leaving the Mormon church takes on people.

  • (Score: 1) by lcall on Tuesday October 04 2016, @08:25PM

    by lcall (4611) on Tuesday October 04 2016, @08:25PM (#410287)

    Most of these thunderous statements (not all), seem to come from ACs.

    I really doubt the BY murders you suggest. Not sure how to prove it either way though. Many people said bad things but that doesn't make them true. I do have family who was there through some controversies, which is about as good as what one could go on. Even scholars disagree on history, which I'm not, but I read a lot.

    Three people in my immediate family have left the Church in my immediate memory. We still do lots of family stuff. That doesn't prove anything I know, but ... I see it, and it seems individual to me. Again, we really are supposed to be good to each other regardless, and when we are not, we should do better. We'll keep trying to do better, anyway. Also I'm not going to pretend I don't believe something just because I'm around them, and they likewise express their minds. For comparison, my son and I don't vote alike, but I still think we're really close and we have *tons* in common. When someone is exclusionary or cliquish, that is sad, definitely. (BTW, my son, w/ whom I usually disagree politically, made the best statement about the candidate from my party, for whom I won't vote, that I ever heard. Since then you've heard it elsewhere, but it really, really made me laugh.)

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 04 2016, @08:41PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 04 2016, @08:41PM (#410299)

      Bill Hickman, one of the "destroying angels", admitted all and turned state's evidence. Google the book and read it for yourself: "Brigham's Destroying Angel: Being the Life, Confession, and Startling Disclosures of the Nortorious Bill Hickman". It's now public domain.

      • (Score: 1) by lcall on Tuesday October 04 2016, @09:05PM

        by lcall (4611) on Tuesday October 04 2016, @09:05PM (#410323)

        Looks like his "confession" kept him from being prosecuted, and then the federal case he was enabling went nowhere. Seems to be one of those historical things where you have to decide whom to believe, based on one's view of their trustworthiness, and whether it can be corroborated in any way. Thanks for the reference.

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday October 05 2016, @01:08PM

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Wednesday October 05 2016, @01:08PM (#410567) Homepage
          I will admit that you do turn the other cheek very well, as I understand would all devout LDS adherants. That is very honourable, others would have cracked and become angry or derailed. However, your persistence with your friendly tone, often with very similar responses, not-always-ones-to-the-questions-asked, does make you come over as just a little bit brainwashed.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 1) by lcall on Wednesday October 05 2016, @03:16PM

            by lcall (4611) on Wednesday October 05 2016, @03:16PM (#410635)

            Thanks. I'm all in, anyway. If I didn't answer and should have and you point it out, I'll retry. I admit sometimes I was tired. I had some time and this is important.

            • (Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Thursday October 06 2016, @03:19AM

              by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday October 06 2016, @03:19AM (#410943) Journal

              I just think it is sooo-o cute that SoylentNews has its own Mormon missionary assigned to us! Does this mean we are an "important" website now? Did we have to give up a Microsoft shill or an Electric Universe crazy to make room?

              • (Score: 1) by lcall on Thursday October 06 2016, @12:28PM

                by lcall (4611) on Thursday October 06 2016, @12:28PM (#411061)

                There were some strong statements and valid questions, and almost nobody else was answering. Is only one viewpoint allowed here?

                • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday October 07 2016, @07:10AM

                  by aristarchus (2645) on Friday October 07 2016, @07:10AM (#411389) Journal

                  Cute, I said. Mormonism is not a viewpoint, it is not a theory of reality. As many have very politely pointed out, the entire religion is a delusion, and a scam.

                  Do I have to point out how many pyramid schemes originate in Utah, because it is perfectly alright to rip-off the gentiles? Do I have to mention the Salamander Papers, the assassination of their possessor? Do I have to mention the splinter groups, the Mormon war against the United States of American, the fact that Mitt Romney's father was born in Mexico for a reason?

                  Yes, your opinion is allowed here. But I do notice that you only pipe up when something prejudicial to the Saints comes up. And you are very polite. That does not make me uncomfortable. It just plain scares me. I sincerely hope you recover. There are people and organizations that can help.

                  • (Score: 1) by lcall on Friday October 07 2016, @02:00PM

                    by lcall (4611) on Friday October 07 2016, @02:00PM (#411488)

                    Ghandi, to make a remote comparison, was polite -- is he frightening? It can be good to learn from people like that when we can. I don't want to quit trying after all the effort to learn to be polite, especially since it's still a work in progress.

                    I do want to chime in when I see info that to me is very false or unbalanced, where I might know something. In this case I think I do.

                    With other issues as you mentioned, when one looks at the actual facts with depth, I have found to be not as you insinuate (in one case, personal acquaintances, etc: "que te vaya bien, y que no te machuque el tren", as one says -- google translate doesn't do well there). But all those things have been covered vigorously on both sides I presume, more thoroughly than we will here (including at http://fairmormon.org). [fairmormon.org).] Maybe I should have logged in when helping (just a little) with a tech/security question.

                    I also answered a large # of questions about my Free software -- where maybe I'll charge for some features later. (Since then, I made some improvements to the documentation, though not all that were suggested. I added some code to increase the convenience of creating consistently structured or semi-structured data -- in github but not in a released binary nor documented yet. When I'm able, I currently work on making it distributed, for exchanging data, structured or not, between instances, watching for data changes, etc. Then I'll probably try getting a demo video made, and sometime I hope, a pleasant web UI: http://onemodel.org [onemodel.org] .)

                    Best wishes.