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The "quiet catastrophe" is particularly dismaying because it is so quiet, without social turmoil or even debate. It is this: After 88 consecutive months of the economic expansion that began in June 2009, a smaller percentage of American males in the prime working years (ages 25 to 54) are working than were working near the end of the Great Depression in 1940, when the unemployment rate was above 14 percent. If the labor-force participation rate were as high today as it was as recently as 2000, nearly 10 million more Americans would have jobs.
The work rate for adult men has plunged 13 percentage points in a half-century. This "work deficit" of "Great Depression-scale underutilization" of male potential workers is the subject of Nicholas Eberstadt's new monograph "Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis," which explores the economic and moral causes and consequences of this:
Is it an aberration, or a harbinger of things to come?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @03:47AM
It's a "quiet catastrophe" because men are not allowed to complain about having absolutely no economic opportunity in our sexist society. Any man who mentions his plight in earshot of a woman will immediately be ostracized permanently from every social circle. Ostracism is what women do best.
And another thing. Where's Al Capone when we need him most?
Unemployed men queued outside a depression soup kitchen opened in Chicago by Al Capone, 02-1931 - NARA - 541927.jpg [wikimedia.org]
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @03:59AM
"Underutilization". Yet another facet of society in which women are grossly underrepresented!
(Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @04:18AM
The usual rebuttal goes something like this:
When -you- are being paid 75 cents on the dollar for work of equal difficulty, THEN you will have a legit gripe.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @04:25AM
Oh not this canard again.
Actual studies on the topic, correcting for all the usual suspects (age, hours of work, experience) find, in the USA, that the percentile gap ascribable to sex is about 2 - 5% (depending on whose numbers you take). Perfect? No. But nowhere near a quarter out of every dollar.
If you break it down by job type and industry, there are many in which women are actually paid more than men.
The largest part of the pay gap comes from women doing more part time or flex time work than men, working fewer net hours, and most importantly steering clear of certain high pressure, high risk, high dollar jobs.
Go forth, do your homework, and sin no more.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @09:07AM
First, it isn't -my- claim.
I said it was the **usual** rebuttal.
So far, there have been claims made and logic applied and a snide comment in response, but no one has actually linked to something that spells out the opposing view.
Factchecking: Barack Obama ad says women are paid "77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men" [politifact.com]
...though one someone thought it was intelligent to mod the comment Troll.
...instead of modding Disagree and saying why.
...and, again, linking to a rebuttal of the rebuttal which contains facts.
Some days, this place is just sad. [archive.li]
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @01:10PM
Anyone with even the tiniest clue knows that the types of jobs are extremely relevant. Not knowing this makes you an idiot.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @09:21PM
Care to account for the fact that women pay women less than they pay men? In fact, women pay women less than men pay women.
I think womyn-born-womyn need to get their own fucking house in order if they and their intellectual whores want to bitch about that shit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @03:53AM
> Actual studies on the topic, correcting for all the usual suspects (age, hours of work, experience) find, in the USA, that the percentile gap ascribable to sex is about
Yes, if you factor out all the important stuff then its nearly equal. Yay! Equality!!
But why is it that women works less hours and have less experience?
Answer - because they are expected to sacrifice their careers for their family, especially single mothers who nearly always carry the entire burden of childcare. That's fucked up, and should be especially concerning to red pillars who believe society forbids them from putting the time in to care for their children.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 11 2016, @03:44PM
Ooh, good call there, chief!
As soon as you find a way to fix that ugly biological reality of mammalian reproduction, let the world know.
Go on, we're all waiting.
What's taking so long?
... and not to distract you while you're working, but what the hell is a red pillar and why does it have opinions?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @04:19PM
The majority of "single mothers" are such because they made bad choices.
Do you believe that nobody should suffer the consequences of their bad choices?
If yes, you're the ideal Hillary voter. Free stuff for everyone! No consequences for anyone! W@@T!
(Score: 1) by Francis on Sunday October 09 2016, @04:25AM
Perhaps, but if that's true, then why are women complaining? They reached wage parity many years ago and yet the bitching and moaning continues.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @10:43AM
then why are women complaining?
Yet another, and possibly the most significant and the root cause of all the others, thing
Francis does not know.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @01:12PM
My three year old daughter likes to complain as well. Maybe they think that if they complain some more they will benefit for the complaints. Seems to have worked for them so far, so why not give it another go.
(Score: 1) by Francis on Sunday October 09 2016, @01:52PM
Precisely. This isn't like the black community where there's a demonstrable achievement gap at virtually every level of society and a relatively understood cause. These are women that have the same opportunities as their male counterparts and receive the same pay as their male counterparts, but insist on whining about it anyways.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @08:23PM
My three year old daughter likes to complain as well.
But not your son, if you have one, I presume? There seems to be more than enough complaining by all our resident (((Men's Rights))) crowd to statistically prove that men complain much more than women. And the whining of the MRAs is more annoying, for we (real men) are men of action, and whimpering does not become us.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @09:24PM
That's because the son's genitals are mutilated at birth. When he won't stop crying at night because of the pain, he gets slapped until he learns to shut up. If he hasn't learned to shut up by the time he's three, then you can start bruising his bottom. If that doesn't shut him up, throw him around some and maybe break a bone or two. That'll shut him up.
Yet more areas women don't want equality.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @04:19AM
No my son doesn't, not because he's a boy but because he's five.
The point is the whining like a baby, not the gender of the child. Those women who are still whining like children, need to grow up and learn adult ways to deal with any perceived problem. Just don't be surprised when told to STFU as it's not an actual problem.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Hairyfeet on Sunday October 09 2016, @07:14PM
Because third wave feminism isn't for equality but superiority? I can show you example after example of third wave feminists calling in bomb threats to keep a man from speaking on their campus, pulling fire alarms to stop males from using a lecture hall, and using bullhorns to shout down anyone with a differing opinion because ultimately in their minds their opinion matters and yours does not.
To me the really sad part is they are so indoctrinated they cannot even think logically, like a hardcore Marxist who cannot see when their philosophy is creating blatant contradictions. For an example there was a big stink a few years ago about how fewer videogames have female characters in them and I pointed out the reason why is obvious....feminist groups will have a shitfit and call for banning games that treat women equally to men. Of course here came a feminist to argue "That isn't true we'd be happy to be treated equally to men and wouldn't call to ban any game who did that" so I brought up Bulletstorm that had achievements like "grapenuts" for blowing a guy's balls off so I said "Well then you'd have no problem with me getting achievements like 'instant flattie' or 'sex change' for blowing the female parts off a woman then?" to which she replied "you shouldn't be allowed to do that in any game and it shouldn't be sold" and when I pointed out she was proving my very point by calling for a ban on a game that treated a woman equally she just kept saying "No I'm not but you shouldn't be able to do that"...she literally was so programmed she didn't have the capacity to see the failure in her position, that she was ONLY for "equality" if women were protected and treated nicely, if women were treated as shitty as men? Well that just wouldn't do!
So it isn't about "equality" unless "equality" involves safe spaces and coddling and treating them as special, because to them equality is keeping the special treatment women have gotten for thousands of years PLUS the delusion that they are equal to men...as long as they aren't treated as shitty as men are in society.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @11:19AM
so I brought up Bulletstorm that had achievements like "grapenuts" for blowing a guy's balls off so I said "Well then you'd have no problem with me getting achievements like 'instant flattie' or 'sex change' for blowing the female parts off a woman then?"
Your game is just sick and your idea of fun blows, and I ain't a woman either. I guess that one is not about feminism, it is about how some weird shit is thought of as "manly". I don't get many things girls find "fun", but I don't dig this either. However, I don't mind you doing whatever you are doing for fun, unless my balls are on line.
But the good thing is now I think I understand the problem with new wave of feminism grabbing power: Chicks believe we all have to hang together, and then they'll complain either because we don't want to, or because when we do want to, they are grossed, but they still won't give up their Primary Objective, so instead their only remaining option is to oppress us into complete do-over (aka psychological castration). That's why we need to fight for our right to not bend to their world view. Sexes are different and as much as we don't get to tell them how to be, they should not get to tell us how to be either.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday October 09 2016, @04:33AM
When -you- are being paid 75 cents on the dollar for work of equal difficulty, THEN you will have a legit gripe.
What makes you think that's going on? The obvious rebuttal here is time off for child rearing lowers the value of women's wages. If women really were 25% cheaper for the qualifications and ability, it would be a huge advantage to any employer to hire mostly women.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @05:11AM
And if that happened, then huge numbers of men would be out of work. Oh, wait...
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 09 2016, @06:11AM
Do the math, silly. If women were cheaper, then men wouldn't find jobs at all. If my company could hire a woman to do my job for 3/4 of my pay, they wouldn't think twice about it. I would be out the door. Fact is, new hires are paid new hire wages. Seniority (longevity) gets men and women the same raises. Some jobs in the plant pay more, but you have to bid on them. Males and females are equally represented in most of those jobs. The dirty, grubby and/or physically demanding jobs are dominated by men, and they generally make more than the other jobs that people bid on, but the females ARE PERMITTED to bid on them, if they want. Let me be more specific - women don't bid on maintenance, tool making, machining, or tool setting. They like the QC department, shipping, warehouse, assembly, janitor/housekeeping, parts room - anything that isn't going to get them dirty, or require that they lift more than 20 or 30 pounds.
I can teach a woman to turn a wrench, read a caliper, run a lathe, or any other job that I've ever done, if only she is willing to DO THAT JOB! The few times I've had a woman near any of this work, she is exactly as untrainable as some young boy who is worried about his appearance, and isn't willing to make an effort.
"What, you want me to cut my nails? Can't you just make these tools softer, so I don't break my nails on them? Oh - MY HAIR!"
Women have their priorities, and the jobs that I most enjoy doing do not make that list of priorities. THAT is why I make more money than most of the women at the plant - and most of the men too.
All of that said, I work for a woman. Sue's priorities are slightly different than most women's priorities. She never looks like a slob, but she sometimes goes home dirty. She doesn't do makeup, her nails are trimmed, never seen her in "pretty" shoes, she's always dressed for work. And, she makes more money than I do because not only is she damned good at her job, but she's been doing the same jobs for over 30 years. I think she learned plastics from George Washington Carver, directly.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @08:18AM
Yes, but companies are predominantly run by white male cis-gendered scum who hate women. Logic is sexist anyway, just take my word for it. </sarcasm>
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Sunday October 09 2016, @05:36PM
There are a lot of young men who do the same. They don't want to get dirty or put in real effort. I got lucky and found an apprentice who's actually willing to work. That said I do let him play computer games while the machine is running if all the stock is cut and such.
This inability to find good entry level workers is driving a lot of automation effort. If you can't hire good operators to keep the machine running nights and weekends you're better off adding an automation cell.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @05:55AM
When -you- produce more than 75% the output of a male in the same position over the same period of time, then you can use this argument.
Put in some overtime, do some real work.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @08:57AM
OT is a symptom of a broken work environment.
Every office I have worked at (and fixed) OT was expected. It took time to fix. The easiest way was to make sure expectations were set, met, and reset continuity. In addition to hiring people who fit the positions needed. Burn out your top guy and you are fucked just as bad as if the project never gets finished.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 09 2016, @05:55AM
Ostracized? Social circle? WTF? If men are worried about being ostracized by socialites, then they don't deserve anything better than leftovers. FFS - they can stay home and watch the soap operas.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @06:09AM
Haha thank you. Its a class issue, they only bring gender into it to further the misdirection of anger.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @06:47AM
they can stay in the basement and watch Star Trek.
FTFY
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @07:37AM
Speaking of Trek, we're right on schedule for the Bell Riots in 2024.
WEBB: This place is about to explode. Most of us agreed to live here because they promised us jobs. I don't know about you, but I haven't been on any job interviews lately.
BC: Jobs? You guys want jobs? When are you going to get it? There are no jobs. Not for us, anyway.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @08:17AM
When people like Tim Hunt and Dawkins can stand against the tide, a puny mortal like you has no chance.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09 2016, @02:40PM
Left out of this analysis is that the single largest group of these "idle men" are single, young black men. [epi.org]
Why? Because you can't get a job if you have a criminal record and we've been over-policing them for petty crimes like drug possession, selling loose cigarettes and even jay-walking [wsbtv.com] because that's easy (and much more lucrative [theatlantic.com]) than policing for serious crimes like assault, robbery and murder. And that's before straight-up racism. [nber.org]