There is an interview with Joel Spolsky on GeekWire which reports that companies should Just shut up and let your devs concentrate:
If you want to attract and keep developers, don't emphasize ping-pong tables, lounges, fire pits and chocolate fountains. Give them private offices or let them work from home, because uninterrupted time to concentrate is the most important and scarcest commodity.
That's the view of Joel Spolsky, CEO of Stack Overflow, a popular Q&A site for programmers, who spoke this morning at the GeekWire Summit in Seattle.
"Facebook's campus in Silicon Valley is an 8-acre open room, and Facebook was very pleased with itself for building what it thought was this amazing place for developers," Spolsky said in an interview with GeekWire co-founder Todd Bishop. "But developers don't want to overhear conversations. That's ideal for a trading floor, but developers need to concentrate, to go to a chatroom and ask questions and get the answers later. Facebook is paying 40-50 percent more than other places, which is usually a sign developers don't want to work there."
[Continues...]
Spolsky, who in 2011 created project-management software Trello, said the "Joel Test" that he created 16 years ago is still a valid way for developers to evaluate prospective employers. It's a list of 12 yes-no questions, with one point given for every "yes" answer:
- Do you use source control?
- Can you make a build in one step?
- Do you make daily builds?
- Do you have a bug database?
- Do you fix bugs before writing new code?
- Do you have an up-to-date schedule?
- Do you have a spec?
- Do programmers have quiet working conditions?
- Do you use the best tools money can buy?
- Do you have testers?
- Do new candidates write code during their interview?
- Do you do hallway usability testing?
"The truth is that most software organizations are running with a score of 2 or 3, and they need serious help, because companies like Microsoft run at 12 full-time," Spolsky said when he created the test. He said that remains true today.
How well does your organization support its developers? If new or better equipment would improve your productivity, is it made available to you? How is your work environment? How well does your organization score on the 12-point "Joel Test"? What is the biggest thing blocking your company from improving?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 10 2016, @05:06PM
Man, fuck code in interviews. You want to see my code you can look at my github repo. You waste my time in an interview and I'm going to walk out of it.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @05:53PM
The first problem with your github repo is that it is untrustworthy. Lots of people fake it. Github is full of repos that exist solely for job hunting. A friend, or paid worker, may have actually done the work.
The second problem with your github repo is that counting it is unfair. Counting that repo would unfairly discriminate against candidates who spend all their time working in proprietary code. They may work long hours, leaving no extra time, or they might have other uses for non-work time, such as family.
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @06:01PM
Counting that repo would unfairly discriminate against candidates who spend all their time working in proprietary code.
And what's wrong with discriminating against such unethical people?
(Score: 2) by Capt. Obvious on Monday October 10 2016, @06:15PM
You are most likely hiring them to work on proprietary code, so it's hypocritical. Now, if you're hiring for an OSS project, and you want to make sure their ethos aligns with yours, fine. But most of the time, "will you work on OSS code in your time off" is used more for a proxy of "can I get you to work unpaid overtime" than anything else
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Aiwendil on Monday October 10 2016, @06:25PM
Unethical? Maybe we don't want the layout of a city's entire electrical grid down to part numbers to show up on github.
Or maybe that IFF-system, or that SCRAM-testing, or that air-traffic-control-system, or the bridge-opening, or when you want the system to sacrifice itself to minimize damages.
Not all coding are the stuff suitable for github, the public or even the next department over..
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @07:38PM
I think the public would benefit greatly if all of your listed systems were open-sourced. Currently as a society we have thousands of different and incompatible implementations of such systems. If we opensource it all, and started sharing code, we could collectively converge on single good implementations with fare more auditing than any independent closed system could afford. It would also make it much easier to hire people to work on such systems (there would be a large pool of people already up to speed, and good docs and a community to help new devs, as well as much higher code quality, and no need for NDA_s, or crappy private VCS_s).
I would trust a world wide open source project with tons of money funding its audits and tests over some city's one off project maintained by someone who took over a code base he has no idea how it works that was written 30 years ago in a language no one uses any more.
Security through obscurity might help a tiny bit against outside threats, but our main problems are internal failures, and systemic design problems (like connecting the wrong networks together) which would be mitigated by having it as an open source project where people could point out such problems. We can do open source security: its not impossible.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @08:03PM
Let's eliminate physical security by obscurity, wow!. You know I always wondered how that dude Elliot found the time to research the insider details of public utilities in order to hack everything so easily. Now it's so clear. Mr Robot lives in the fantasy world you describe where police departments and prisons and phone companies just open source everything.
I'm gonna go post my backup schedule and the locations of all my backups on my blog now. Surely nobody would want to destroy all copies of my backups at once. So the locations of my backups don't need to be secret.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Wednesday October 12 2016, @11:05PM
What, the floor plans of the building and such that they used to get inside and plant their Pi? Architectural diagrams aren't code, so "open source" doesn't really apply there. Also that information is often public already here in the real world. And even if it wasn't public, thousands of people would still have had access to it. If you consider "they'd have to bribe a janitor" to be good security, you're gonna have some bad surprises coming...
Also not code, so "open source" doesn't really apply. It's not "security through obscurity" to keep your encryption keys secret either. The point isn't that EVERYTHING must be open, the point is that the secrets should be as small as possible. A secret password with a public algorithm almost always works better than a secret password with a secret algorithm, because you're only as secure as the weakest link, so you probably want to choose an algorithm that's been researched for flaws for decades rather than something you just threw together overnight.
And if your backups get destroyed, that really isn't a security issue anyway, that's a data integrity or accessibility issue. It would actually *improve* the security of that data -- we still haven't managed to crack the 'big freakin' bonfire' method of encryption.
So you aren't arguing for security through obscurity, you're arguing for accessibility through obscurity. Which might be a valid tactic actually, although I'm having trouble coming up with any examples that wouldn't be fairly trivial to defeat or cause more harm than good (ie, you can't take out a website by cutting a wire if you don't know which wires to cut...but that seems rather unlikely to begin with compared to maintenance cutting the wrong wires because the damn things aren't labeled clearly!)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Aiwendil on Monday October 10 2016, @09:18PM
No, it wouldn't - uncertified coders and programmers are a pest in those fields.
And higher code quality? I kinda doubt that - degraded cables (fatigue due to temperature variations) are more common than software errors in those fields and - excepting IFFs - no NDAs either).
Also - best practice and common solutions makes the nasty assumption that the underlying hardware are the same (or suitable) which very often are not the case. (Even six months difference in deployment can mean a vendor has gone out of buisness, or that new cable qualities are in use, or an insulator has been outlawed, or a poltician has decided on a new standard. Once you leave the world of pure software such things causes a lot of variations)
The [non site-specific] auditing would also be close to useless unless all variations are checked for and that would be impossible due to it being hard to foresee laws and politics and technological advances.
I actually would trust open source less than industrially verified one-off code with proper documentation (what would you rather see control the aiplane you're on - boeing/airbus internal verified code or systemd ;)
(Or a bit more serious - who would you rather make the controller for the 200kV switch - a company with 60+ years experience and database of issues or a mix of whoever stumbled in on its github-page?)
And no, this isn't as much security through obscurity as it is that we don't want people to even considering doing anything without consulting, writing and supplying proper documentation.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by hendrikboom on Tuesday October 11 2016, @05:54PM
I actually would trust open source less than industrially verified one-off code with proper documentation
I actually would trust industrially verified open-source code with proper documentation even more.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @06:14PM
Looking at your GitHub repo doesn't tell me enough about what it will be like to work with you. Writing a little code on the whiteboard, and having you review some code, will tell me a lot.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @07:20PM
Yes it's difficult to demonstrate your bootlicking and cocksucking skills in a GitHub repo. Soft skills like having a supple mouth are the skills that will get you the job.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 10 2016, @10:14PM
Then make it useful code that's part of an active project. I don't do pointless schoolwork at my age.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @10:43PM
I don't do pointless schoolwork at my age.
You're too old to be coder, old man. Have you tried dying, to make room for young people to change the world?
(Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 10 2016, @10:51PM
A few times. I wasn't very good at it.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by lgw on Tuesday October 11 2016, @01:28AM
Every major software employer these days is primarily focused on coding (and design) in interviews (Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, all the second tier size-wise as well). It's the only thing that means anything. Do you write maintainable, robust code with good variable names and so on in the stress and time crunch of an interview? Then you're likely to do so in the stress and time crunch of a project.
Facebook goes a bit overboard here, their interviews look more like programming contests than anything to do with code quality, but as TFS points out, Facebook has other problems.
Get over yourself.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 11 2016, @01:48AM
S'fine. I'd never stoop to working for a major or even large company anyway. The pay's not enough for the amount of shit you're forced to eat.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Capt. Obvious on Monday October 10 2016, @06:31PM
You expect me to read your whole repo and waste my time doing that? If I ask for a code sample, you had better choose something to send me.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 10 2016, @10:13PM
If you ask for a simple code sample, dandy. You'll get something I spent my time writing because it actually had a purpose. Asking me to write you a quicksort (there are libraries for it in every language known to man, so it's utterly useless to do yourself) during an interview is a waste of my time and shows me you're going to suck ass to work for.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Tuesday October 11 2016, @06:09PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Monday October 10 2016, @07:25PM
You waste my time in an interview and I'm going to walk out of it.
That's why I do coding tasks already in the first phone interview, via colabedit or something. Saves me a lot of time when people with attitude walk out / hang up immediately.
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @07:34PM
You don't have a Twitch channel full of yourself coding? You must be too old to be a coder. Have you considered early retirement into the gutter?
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Monday October 10 2016, @09:33PM
Sorry, I don't understand your ... humour, i guess?...
I conducted 100-150 interviews between 2011 and 2014. With my employer, interviews are done at least partially by prospective team-mates. A typical question was "Write a method/function that takes an integer argument and returns true if the parameter is a prime number". The question was intended as a starter, to discuss corner-cases, test-cases, optimizations, etc. The candidate was allowed to pick a language from a bigger selection, including but not limited to perl, python, c, c++, Java, groovy or php, or even pseudo-code. 90% of the candidates were not able to write such a function! Around 30-40% didn't have a clue what a prime number is. 20% did have a clue but were uncertain about 1 and 2, or negative numbers. No problem. To be hones, while I would consider the concept of prime numbers general knowledge, I think I never actually used it in my I explained it briefly, thus basically giving already away most of the algorithm. Later I changed the question to ask for a FizzBuzz algorithm instead to avoid explaining prime-numbers.
Around 5-8% of the candidates were able to solve the problem in time to allow for some further discussion about optimizations. Some of the other candidates had great tales to tell which huge projects they worked in incredibly successfully, and terribly important, as long as I didn't ask too technical questions. I'm pretty certain they also could point to fancy code-bases that they implemented.
I don't mind having a look at given github-repositories or other examples of prior work. I'd appreciate if a candidate would send me a codewars link or something similar. But this is not a substitute for observing how the candidate works on a given task, if he is the type of programmer carefully crafting the code in advance or the type to write down hastily and iterate until it works properly. If a supposed developer doesn't want to demonstrate his/her skills, it makes me suspicious.
Somewhere during that time I stumbled over this [codinghorror.com] old blog post. It fits quite nicely with my own experience in this time.
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @10:03PM
FizzBuzz
I've never written a FizzBuzz in my life. I have written a top posting spam bot that got me top post on every page of a forum thread, though. It's easy. You check the number of posts in the thread, divide by 50 or whatever the page limit is, and post some shit if the remainder is zero. Modular arithmetic is great spammy fun dude! Now let me go memorize whatever the fuck a FizzBuzz is so I can join your jizz soaked team of social brogrammers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 11 2016, @02:53PM
Here's an implementation of FizzBuzz in the FizzBuzz programming language I just invented (sorry, no implementations yet — anyone wants to volunteer?):
Note that this language is very flexible; indeed, any source results in a valid FizzBuzz program. In other words, this language makes it impossible to write buggy code! Show me another language that achieves that! So you see, I'm not only a superb coder (coding FizzBuzz in a single line!) but also a superb language developer! ;-)
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 10 2016, @10:19PM
Weird, a prime number generator is what I wrote (longhand in a spiral notebook) during my first programming class. Not as classwork, because I'd already read half the book and was bored. I could probably improve on it quite a lot nowadays. Hmmmm....
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Monday October 10 2016, @10:34PM
Actually I can imagine you'd do well on the technical part of our servers as long as you get a couple of systems to maintain and improve, and with the humour in our team you might as well fit in nicely. (It's quite multicultural, 8 employees from 8 different nations - no American yet - , but all of us are capable of laughing about their own countries stereotypes.) But we do have some interactions with other teams, and there is some work that sometimes seems nonsensical. Just like someone asking you to write down a short algorithm for an interview: If you only do what you consider wise and walk out on everything else, that's exactly the point which does more harm than good to the team.
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 10 2016, @11:03PM
People I can work with quite well. Stupid work I can do quite well too. Pointless work is what I'm not down with. Give me an actual, useful task and I'll save your guys a few minutes of work. If you like it, hire me. If you don't, I erase the whiteboard or take the paper, allow that I hope you have a nice day, and walk out. I was an independent consultant for over a decade, so I'm fine with occasionally having to eat some work. Never with pointless effort though. Everything I do has to have a purpose, even if it's a stupid one.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Monday October 10 2016, @11:25PM
Others wouldn't want to discuss "real" problems in an interview because they are concerned the "work" might be used in production without them getting payed. Because apparently in their mind it is cheaper to pay human resources to schedule an interview and a manager to ask bullshit questions to slip in the real task for 20 minutes then to pay a consultant for 1h and get some work done. (Yes, I assume it would be stupid to hire a consultant for 1h. It would take him more time to get familiar with the environment in the first place.)
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 11 2016, @01:28AM
Yup, that is why I said erase the whiteboard or walk out with the paper. Really though, you're not going to get quality code if the person writing it has no idea about the preferred styles for the project, what libraries they can make use of, what constants mean what, and the like. You can get a very simple and generic function/method/etc... that's about it.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Tuesday October 11 2016, @04:52AM
That's why I usually ask for a very simple function only, which shouldn't require any external library. Amazingly, 90% of the candidates are still not capable to provide it. The whole idea was initially to have a discussion on how to test, identity corner cases etc. External libraries - good if you know them, but most bigger projects have their own set of helper functions etc. which the candidate cannot know anyway, and for generic libraries there is always is duckduckgo and alike to look up what you need when you need it.
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 11 2016, @10:00AM
Think we're mostly on the same page. I just want what I do to actually be used instead of given a letter grade and trashed. I don't get any money for good report cards any more.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 10 2016, @10:15PM
Exactly. It saves everyone time since it's obvious we're not going to work well together.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Funny) by q.kontinuum on Monday October 10 2016, @10:20PM
And this frees up time to post on soylentnews :-) Win-win-win ?
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 10 2016, @10:31PM
And go fishing. There is no down side.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @11:08PM
I understand where you are coming from. However, there are a *lot* of fakers out there as in can not do a simple for loop or an if statement. The firms I am working with to find a new job. 3 different people who do not know each other all said the same thing. 'about 1 in 10 actually can do the work they say they can on their resume they are going to test you'.
They are asking you for a modicum of work of 'prove it'. It is not out of line and reacting as if they offended you makes it easy for them to drop your resume in the trash and laugh 'whew missed a nasty person to work with there'. Its exactly how I would react.
I always make it up front 'this is not the way I work so you will be getting a distorted view but you can at least see I can code'.
Most of the time when coding you are looking through docs. Either docs you wrote for specs or someone else wrote. You are running down requirements and making sure the code actually does what they want. Or on the internet looking up that oddball function you used once 15 years ago and how it works again.
If you had read the 'Joel Test' he said as much. You get a stack of resumes and maybe 10% of them are worth anything and maybe 5% are people that you really want. Yet most 'look' similar. How do you filter them out? You create tests for it. Those fakers are why you are being tested not because they are challenging your intelligence. They just want to make sure you actually can walk the walk.
(Score: 2) by MrGuy on Monday October 10 2016, @07:35PM
In an interview situation, they don't want to see YOUR code. They want to see YOU code.
My company does an offline programming test for developers - you can do it in advance, and do it at your leisure, but we want it back and evaluate it before we bring you in. We do this for a few reasons. First, it's because we want to see original code done to solve a problem - not something off the shelf. Second, it helps our evaluators "calibrate" their expectations correctly. After you've seen 4-5 submissions, you get a pretty good idea what a good submission and a bad submission look like, even though both have flaws. That's useful to us. Also, for a small programming project, we get to see what's important to you, and what you spend less time on. Do you favor building in hooks for possible extension, or do you prefer writing something shorter and more readable that's targeted at the problem in front of you? Do you name variables descriptively or more abstractly? Do you make heavy use of language conventions? We get a sense of your personal style. It's easier for us to do this when we know all the decisions are yours, and all being made on new code in the context of our problem, as opposed to being dictated by conventions or concerns you might face while working on a different project with other collaborators.
And that's before we bring you in to do the interview. Some people don't make it over this bar, others do.
Assuming we bring you in for an interview, we talk to you about your code. We give you feedback, and make some suggestions on how to modify or make it better. We talk about those suggestions, and then work together on your code to improve it. Can you do that live? How do you work with others? How do you evaluate suggestions - which ones do you take? Can you work effectively on the code? That's really important - HOW do you work? How do you problem solve issues? We feel evaluating your process of writing code as part of a team is important, especially since you want to join our team.
Feel like writing new code is a waste of your time? Feel like you should only need to be assessed on the quality of your code, and not the process you use to create it? That's your perogative. Choosing what we feel is important to evaluate is ours. We find our system works for us. Plenty of other job postings if you don't think it's worth your time or effort.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @07:48PM
Plenty of other job postings if you don't think it's worth your time or effort.
Actually no, there aren't plenty of other job postings. It's a buyer's market out there and you know it. When there are hundreds of unemployed tech workers to every job opening, there's a shortage of job postings. Stop pretending jobs should be easy to find just because you have a job right now. Your applicants do not want to fucking hear about how lucky the interviewer is. The real waste of time here is when desperate applicants bother talking to a narcissistic asshole interviewer like you.
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Monday October 10 2016, @10:17PM
Last time I looked for a job was 6 years ago. At that time I heard the same complaints from others about how hard it was to find a job. It took me a some months to find something suitable. (Luckily I wasn't unemployed, I can imagine it is harder to find a job if you are. First of all because it affects the self-confidence, second because the prospective employer might find an employed candidate more appealing; a candidate who does currently draw a salary must be good, otherwise he wouldn't get a salary, yes?)
But after 2-3 months, I had 5 job offers on the table, contracts signed by my counter-part. Three of them quite nice, one was abysmal. Two of the nicer once required a relocation, but the employer was willing to pay for it. The third one was close enough I wouldn't have to relocate. Fourth one was close as well, interesting work (anti-virus software, including analysis of new malware, work on heuristics to detect new malware without known signature etc.) but salary didn't match my expectations. Fifth one was ok salary, but otherwise abysmal work-conditions (fixed salary for expected 40h per week, but component I would have worked on was a neuralgic part of the infrastructure, and in case of failure it was expected to do whatever it takes, without payment for overtime, and without consideration for vacation or weekend. Only one person working on the component, no substitutes, no backup.)
In our current company our team does not currently hire, but I know several other teams do. I also know that several of them have severe problems to find qualified candidates.
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @10:39PM
Let me update you for 2016, jobful winner. Out here in the world, there are jobless losers who have been unemployed for the past eight years, who were laid off right after you Obama voters voted in the Obama, who were purged from the workforce along with everyone who refused to vote for Obama. Racism is the only possible reason for refusing to vote for Obama, and there are millions of unemployed losers who must be racists otherwise why else would they be unemployed? Nobody wants a racist. Racists are unqualified to live in the Obamanation. Why can't the racists just fuck off and die already.
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Monday October 10 2016, @10:42PM
"Us Obama voters"? If at all, I'd be a Merkel-voter, which I'm not. I voted for the pirate party.
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 2, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 10 2016, @10:24PM
Oh please. Nobody who truly wants a job stays unemployed. If you've been out of work for more than a couple months, you either don't want a job or you are a whiny, picky, entitled little bastard that nobody in their right mind would want to hire anyway.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @10:55PM
And what is every whiny, picky, entitled little bastard who truly wants a job supposed to do? Oh right. Die in the gutter.
Fuck you, asshole.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 11 2016, @01:21AM
Get hungry enough that they get less whiny, picky, and entitled and start acting like responsible human beings.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 11 2016, @04:14AM
I recall a comment where you referred to shitstain employees. You sir are an asshole, and everything and everyone you touch will become shitstained. So many people are struggling, with a recent story about precisely that thing, and here you have the bootstrapping gall to insult hard working g good people.
Good job, maybe its time to leave this site or at least stop reading the comments and just enjoy the nerdy news filtering by the submitter. Seeing the inner thoughts of what probably represents a good portion of humanity just gets me depressed, and the not-so-funny part of that is people like you probably would say "good go kill yourself then sniveling rat." Sadly that mentality of treading over others seems to be all the rage, and unless something changes it will lead humanity into the next horrific chapter instead of the prosperous reality that is currently possible.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 11 2016, @10:08AM
You, sir, are correct. But that's not what pisses you off. What pisses you off is I believe in personal responsibility and accountability and those scare the hell out of you. Tough titties, sweet cheeks. This is what we call being an adult.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 11 2016, @12:03PM
No, what pisses people off is that you're an asshole about it.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 11 2016, @12:28PM
Would you like me to change your diaper? Maybe powder your little bottom? Grow up.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 11 2016, @04:28AM
Responsible human beings? How does that enter into unemployment? Oh right, only people with successful careers are decent human beings. Pay no mind to reality, or to the fact that accepting a job below your skill level greatly hurts future prospects. They're all lazy good for nothings because you have been successfully brainwashed by the greatest pyramid scheme yet devised.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 11 2016, @10:06AM
A responsible human being does not allow themselves to remain unemployed if they have responsibilities to meet like feeding themselves and their family.
You say fact, I say bullshit.
Thanks for the salt, my eggs were kind of bland this morning. So you're calling doing what it takes to meet your responsibilities a pyramid scheme now? What an entitled prick you are. DIAF.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Informative) by TheGratefulNet on Tuesday October 11 2016, @01:36AM
fuck you.
I was out of work for more than half a year and I was willing to do MOST things that ego-based coders would not.
the lack of jobs is real and the hiring process is against you if you are not currently employed.
again, go fuck yourself. the fact that you have had an easy time getting jobs does not mean that I didn't want one or wasn't willing to do nearly anything to get one!
asshole. yes, these are fighting words and while I'm not a fighter, I'd sock you in the face for saying what you said, if you said it to me.
many of us want jobs and the job market is against us. its a FACT.
I actually hope you lose your job and are out for a year. it would serve you right, mate.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 11 2016, @01:46AM
Who said it was easy for me? I fully expect to have to take a job that's beneath me when I get tired of burning through my savings and go back to work. You certainly won't hear me whining about it though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 11 2016, @03:07AM
If you voted for Johnson then the invisible hand would grab you by the pussy and put you to work on the best jobs. The best.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 11 2016, @09:03AM
Oh sure, if you truly want a job, McD is always hiring.
But the discussion was about tech jobs jobs.
Claiming that there are no tech jobs in a discussion about tech jobs does not make one a whiny, picky, entitle little bastard. One can even take the job at McD and still say there is no tech jobs.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 11 2016, @09:51AM
WTF are you even talking about? Get a tech job that you're overqualified and underpaid for. It's what the rest of the world outside tech has been having to do for a long time rather than be unemployed.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10 2016, @10:47PM
Perhaps where you are. Where I am there's a chronic shortage of tech workers and you can get a coding job fairly easily. I still went through two interviews to get my job. Admittedly not much on the technical side as the company's stance is that any competent coder should be capable of picking up C# quickly. Well, and I had someone in the company vouch for my abilities so there's that, too.
Still, I'd appreciate a company doing its due diligence when hiring me. In a seller's market (or a balanced one) the pre-hiring process is as much about you getting a feel for how the company works as it is about the company getting a feel for you. A company that cares about how I work and how to make that fit in with the rest of the team is a company where I can expect to be relatively safe from things like clashing personalities, arguments about proper style or absurdly rigid conventions that must never be deviated from.
Besides, a process as described by the GP keeps out bums who speak the language but have no idea on how to write maintainable code. I once worked as the successor to one such guy and inherited fun things like a 3000 line blob of nested if/then/else/goto that was the main() function of a crucial do-everything application. The first half year of that job was spent refactoring everything so I even knew what I was looking at and then ripping out the unsalvageable parts and rewriting them from scratch. Not fun. So I appreciate a hiring process that keeps people like that at bay or at least hires them into positions where they can't do much harm.
Now, if you're in an extremely overrun job market all of that doesn't help as you have to take literally any job you can get. But still that doesn't make the interviewer an asshole just because they're making sure that they're hiring someone who fits in well with the team. It sucks that you have to spend a lot of time jumping through hoops but that shouldn't mean that companies should hire people based on a gut feeling.
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Tuesday October 11 2016, @10:25AM
sudo mod me up
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 10 2016, @10:30PM
Then give me useful code to write. I enjoy working but I do not do homework/classwork. It is beneath me. I am not a monkey to dance for your entertainment.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.