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posted by CoolHand on Tuesday October 11 2016, @05:18PM   Printer-friendly
from the we-discover-dead-things dept.

Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:

More than 25 previously unpublished "Dead Sea Scroll" fragments, dating back 2,000 years and holding text from the Hebrew Bible, have been brought to light, their contents detailed in two new books.

The various scroll fragments record parts of the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Samuel, Ruth, Kings, Micah, Nehemiah, Jeremiah, Joel, Joshua, Judges, Proverbs, Numbers, Psalms, Ezekiel and Jonah. The Qumran caves ― where the Dead Sea Scrolls were first discovered ― had yet to yield any fragments from the Book of Nehemiah; if this newly revealed fragment is authenticated it would be the first.

Scholars have expressed concerns that some of the fragments are forgeries. [See Photos of the Dead Sea Scrolls Fragments]

These 25 newly published fragments are just the tip of the iceberg. A scholar told Live Science that around 70 newly discovered fragments have appeared on the antiquities market since 2002. Additionally, the cabinet minister in charge of the Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA), along with a number of scholars, believes that there are undiscovered scrolls that are being found by looters in caves in the Judean Desert. The IAA is sponsoring a new series of scientific surveys and excavations to find these scrolls before looters do.


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 12 2016, @02:18AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 12 2016, @02:18AM (#413217)

    > Don't believe that the Bible is special just because lots of people believe it is.

    Why not? If a lot of people "believe" in it, that means its stood the test of time.

    The underlying ambition of religions far exceed the mundane question of the supernatural. They try to locate the tenets of a good life, of a wise life, of a kind life. They are interrogating the greatest themes. The important parts of religion are those that preach human life is quite difficult and that we are going to need a lot of assistance, a lot of guidance. And what religious life is trying to do is to provide us with tools for how to keep being the best version of ourselves.

  • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday October 12 2016, @06:21AM

    by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday October 12 2016, @06:21AM (#413307) Journal

    Why not? If a lot of people "believe" in it, that means its stood the test of time.

    Oh, you poor sorry example of humanity! Of course it means no such thing, since a lot of people can be complete morons for unbelievably long periods of time. That whole thing about stepping on a crack, and causing Donald Trump to grab somebody by the Holy Grail, how long did it take before that was debunked? Huh? Oh, you still believe that? Point made.

  • (Score: 2) by ledow on Wednesday October 12 2016, @07:07AM

    by ledow (5567) on Wednesday October 12 2016, @07:07AM (#413324) Homepage

    A lot of people believe in astrology.
    A lot of people believe the Sun goes around the Earth (seriously, not even joking, even in this day and age - and that's without the technicality that we believe the Earth goes around the Sun when they both orbit a common centre of gravity).
    A lot of people believe in lucky streaks.
    A lot of people believe in ghosts.
    A lot of people believe that if you're nice to people, they'll be nice to you.

    Just because a lot of people believe it, does not mean it's correct.

    Now, if you preached values at me - not stealing, not killing, etc. then we'd be on the same page. But when you do it because some book said so, or because you think you'll be punished by a supernatural entity if you don't stick to those values, then we have a silly problem again. It's like a child being rewarded for following the playground rules while the teacher is there, arms folded, watching over them. And I'm afraid EVERY SINGLE Christian - and other religions but we're just talking about one here - I've ever met breaks an enormous number of rules they are saying they abide by. From worshipping graven idols (one of the commandments! Whether little men on crosses, or giant ones in churches), or eating pork, it quickly descends into an interpretation where THEY are obviously given the freedom to bend the rules, but nobody else is. And they like to reinforce this to you constantly, often against your will. Like here. The discussion was "is the Bible a particularly special document historically?" not the values of the Christian ethos.

    Without getting into philosophical debate, the Bible is special because people think it is. Historically, it's not that significant in terms of age, accuracy or any other factor. And by any other metric you can argue (popularity), Harry Potter does better. In terms of citations, the Bible might win but that's about it. And that's a popularity contest.

    If TV or the US election debate teaches you anything, it's that popularity is completely non-reflective of any kind of quality or special attribute.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 12 2016, @06:39PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 12 2016, @06:39PM (#413578)

      > A lot of people believe in astrology.

      And you know what? Astrology works. I don't mean it predicts the future. It helps people see themselves. It is a form of counseling as all "fortune telling" is. People who believe in astrology talk to an astrologer who listens to them and helps them hear themselves. Cynics call it cold-reading. And sure, there are scam artists who are out to milk the gullible. But most astrologers aren't getting rich tricking their clients, they are just living normal lives with the equivalent of low-paying but chill job.

      > A lot of people believe that if you're nice to people, they'll be nice to you.

      A lot of people know that if you are shitty to people they'll be shitty to you. There really isn't any other choice if you want to get along with people.

      > I've ever met breaks an enormous number of rules they are saying they abide by

      Oh so you are one of those atheists. You think that in order to be religious you gotta be a fundamentalist. You aren't any smarter than the taliban. Grow up child.

      BTW, I plagiarized that post, the one you are responding to. Its from a prominent atheist. You've got a lot to learn about how religion actually works. Hint: Stop listening to other mental midgets like dawkins and bill maher.

      • (Score: 2) by ledow on Thursday October 13 2016, @01:25PM

        by ledow (5567) on Thursday October 13 2016, @01:25PM (#413873) Homepage

        "And you know what? Astrology works. I don't mean it predicts the future. It helps people see themselves. It is a form of counseling as all "fortune telling" is. People who believe in astrology talk to an astrologer who listens to them and helps them hear themselves. Cynics call it cold-reading. And sure, there are scam artists who are out to milk the gullible. But most astrologers aren't getting rich tricking their clients, they are just living normal lives with the equivalent of low-paying but chill job."

        Hippie rubbish. If you want to make someone feel better, don't tell them it's "in the stars" that their life is how it is. Astrology is 100% incorrect. Fortune-telling is 100% incorrect. If people want some form of therapy, amateur or otherwise, go to someone who marks themselves as a therapist, not a Tarot reader or astrologist. Nobody is saying placebo, or even positive reinforcement from a stranger, is wrong. In fact, the opposite, it's the cheapest method of healing there is. But ASTROLOGY is bollocks.

        > A lot of people believe that if you're nice to people, they'll be nice to you.
        "A lot of people know that if you are shitty to people they'll be shitty to you. There really isn't any other choice if you want to get along with people."

        Flipping what I said to the negative is your error here. Be shitty, get shitty back. Be nice, get nice back is NOT true. Sorry, but it just isn't. Customer service, for instance. Though sensible people reciprocate, that it's a given isn't. Or no charity box would ever be stolen or charity case defrauded.

        > I've ever met breaks an enormous number of rules they are saying they abide by
        "Oh so you are one of those atheists. You think that in order to be religious you gotta be a fundamentalist. You aren't any smarter than the taliban. Grow up child.
        BTW, I plagiarized that post, the one you are responding to. Its from a prominent atheist. You've got a lot to learn about how religion actually works. Hint: Stop listening to other mental midgets like dawkins and bill maher."

        Hey, categorise all athiests the same and then slip in some extremist groups too... well done! That's showing tolerance!
        I'm an agnostic atheist (can't prove it, can't care enough to bother) that says that if you're going to impose rules on others, you need to abide by them. Therefore, you either believe in ONLY certain parts of the bible (hence, edit the damn thing and publish your own) or you want others to believe in things that you don't. Saying "the entire bible is sacred" is dumb unless you want to go out stoning women, etc. That's what the newer testaments were FOR and nobody's bothered to update them in hundreds of years despite it all changing again.

        Either the bible is sacred and "correct" in your religion and therefore the word of God in it is what you should follow, or it isn't. And if it isn't, then you need to highlight WHICH BITS aren't. And then you can't expect anyone to hold to even THOSE bits if you don't do that yourself (again, tolerance, etc.). And then you have to be open to the possibility that EVERY OTHER Christian on the planet should be able to do the same and hence come to their own values too. Rather than argue that the Bible is deathly sacred and never to be messed with.

        Personally, I pay no attention to ANY prominent athiest. I've never read Dawkins in my life. Religion is just SO blah to me, mainly because of irrational and accusatory discussions like this within, what, two comments?, that I just don't care.
        To be honest, I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what religion most people I speak to, or even have heard of, are. People say things like "Oh, she's off today because it's a Jewish holiday" and I have no idea. Mainly because, to me, it makes no difference one way or another. I'm literally blind to it.

        But I'm not blind to hypocrisy, unjustified anger, belief in the irrational, or plain contrarianism just because someone questions a belief. I've yet to EVER hear someone who's identified themselves as Christian to me say "Oh, that's cool, I never thought of it like that - I'm suppose I have a prejudice / preconcieved idea of that.. I'll have to think that through". Yet I've said it to THEM any number of times. First time was concerning Hell - if it's such a punishment, why is it allowed? The interpretation that Hell is merely a comparative feeling - of missing out on absolute Heaven, for instance - rather than a punishment designed as such. I was young, and that made me respect that person SO MUCH MORE, and think about it such that it sticks in my mind.

        I don't BELIEVE it, but it's an interesting viewpoint and a great topic of discussion, and it's not hard to have an interesting, thoughtful discussion from opposing viewpoints over a glass of sherry in front of a fireplace without it turning into name-calling and insults.

        However, you are acting as a prime example of exactly why I *don't* get into religious discourse without warning people that I don't tolerate childish arguments rather than a discussion of viewpoints whenever the subject is broached.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 12 2016, @08:17AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 12 2016, @08:17AM (#413343)

    And what religious life is trying to do is to provide us with tools for how to keep being the best version of ourselves.

    muuuwaaahaaahaaahaaa... Oh, you're funny you... You're precious! Never grow up, kid, you won't like the real world...