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The BBC is reporting on the Compas assessment, Correctional Offender Management Profiling for Alternative Sanctions. This tool is used by a number of agencies to assess if someone is likely to commit additional crimes and the resulting score is used in determining bail, sentencing, or determining parole. The article points out that while the questions on the assessment do not include race the resulting score may be correlated with race but this is disputed by the software's creators. The assessment scores someone on a 10 point scale but the algorithm used to determine someone's score is kept secret. Because of this defendants are unable to effectively dispute that the score is incorrect.
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The Mathematics of the American Justice System
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Fraud is the homage that force pays to reason.
-- Charles Curtis, "A Commonplace Book"
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18 2016, @03:20PM
> I bet it works on a simple points system.
Its more complex than that - read the propublica link. Its neural net type stuff. They base the score on similarities to other convicts and their outcomes. But, as is the problem with all neural nets, garbage in, garbage out. If there is a bias in the current system (which is pretty much a guarantee because humans are involved) then that bias becomes cemented in this system but now since humans aren't involved they pretend its free of human bias. Even worse this system can't change, at least with humans we can identify systemic biases and correct them because we are self-aware. This system is not it just keeps repeating the patterns embedded in it.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday October 18 2016, @04:21PM
If it's secret then propublica, or anyone for that matter cant be sure how it works regardless of what the makers of Compas say it does. It could be a neural net, or it could be 100x simpler and the veil of secrecy is to give the impression of a complex system. Iv'e seen it before. Proprietary this, secret that. And int he end its a hamster in a wheel or some other silly or simple system that is made to look way more complex or difficult to implement to keep the customer locked into contracts.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18 2016, @07:03PM
> If it's secret then propublica, or anyone for that matter cant be sure how it works regardless of what the makers of Compas say it does.
Oh give it up. Sometimes when you don't RTFA you guess wrong. Jesus christ already. Its crazy how you contort yourself into all these weird logic poses just because your ego is so fragile.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18 2016, @07:26PM
But how the algorithm gets from the answers to the score out of 10 is kept secret.
From the article. What on earth does this have to do with ego? This sounds like a bot, using generalized insults to derail a conversation. If it is not, then you should read the article yourself and maybe you'd see the quote I added.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18 2016, @09:47PM
The ego problem is that even when challenged he couldn't be arsed enough to actually go and verify the challenge. Instead he just spewed more self-rationalization. The door was left open, it couldn't have been easier for him to walk through and win the argument, but he didn't even do that. He just made up more shit to defend his original shit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 19 2016, @04:22AM
He brought up the point that if this is secret, there's no real way to tell how it works, regardless of what anyone claims. I don't see you debunking that.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday October 19 2016, @07:37AM
This system may be equally well specified.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday October 18 2016, @04:22PM
If there is a bias in the current system
The system now says there is no such thing as human biological differences. Thats a bias because it doesn't match reality. How you deal with reality fairly is of course a complete mystery that humanity hasn't invented yet and probably isn't this neural net. Although it may be the best we can do. The whole theme of the article might as well be what if the best we can do isn't perfect? Well, thats the justice system for you, been that way for a couple centuries ain't likely to change any time soon and the more it improves the happier I'll be... This sit down on strike and pout because it isn't perfect yet is juvenile.
The propublica hit piece is horribly biased. One of the legal sentencing criteria is protecting the general public. The criminal that stole a bike from a house and got into a confrontation with the mom is obviously a much higher physical danger to the general public than the nearly white collar action of the mega corporation tool shoplifter who tried to avoid confrontation by sneaking stuff out in his pocket or whatever. One is very F you in your face gonna go to your house and get you and the other is like sneaky thief DnD guy who prefers to have no human confrontation at all. Yeah I see the manufactured uproar over the black getting worse punishment than the white, but maybe the black should be less of a public menace or the white should have been someone spreading fear and distrust of neighbors into communities or whatever. One of them is more likely to beat me and take my wallet and it ain't the white guy.
The propublica hit piece claims they're identical crimes because they both involved the same dollar amount. But as a point of comparison, how the $80 changed hands matters more than it being $80... for example there is a big difference between stealing $80 of ammo and running out of a store vs stealing $80 of ammo and shooting up the store on the way out.
Even weirder the follow up shows it works. The white criminal continued to be a crook but the general public was protected from assault even if he committed a property crime against some corporate warehouse that physically hurt nobody in particular, and the black criminal was apparently scared straight and has a clean record since. From the point of view of being a potential victim of violent street crime I'm thinking justice was pretty well served... the white criminal didn't do nuthing to me, and the black criminal is acting in a civilized manner now. I mean... alls well that ends well?
The hit piece was also really weird. Lots of concern about only 20% of the violent criminals being CAUGHT being violent... well, whats the percentage for non violent criminals, like 0.0000001%? Again as a likely victim of violent crime I'm not seeing a problem here, and further as a guy highly unlikely to commit a violent crime any time soon I'm not feeling threatened personally. "Only" 60% suspected reoffenders reoffended. "Only".
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18 2016, @06:43PM
> The system now says there is no such thing as human biological differences.
Correct. Race is a cultural construct, both adopted by individuals and imposed upon them by society.
Everything else you wrote? Not even worth reading. So I didn't.