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posted by janrinok on Wednesday October 19 2016, @07:25PM   Printer-friendly
from the search-for-roman-vending-machine-begins dept.

The eyes of a visiting archaeologist lit up when he was shown the 10 tiny, rusty discs that had sat unnoticed in storage for two and a half years at a dig on a southern Japan island.

He had been to archaeological sites in Italy and Egypt, and recognized the "little round things" as old coins, including a few likely dating to the Roman Empire.

"I was so excited I almost forgot what I was there for, and the coins were all we talked about," said Toshio Tsukamoto of the Gangoji Institute for Research of Cultural Property in Nara, an ancient Japanese capital near Kyoto.

The discovery, announced last month, is baffling. How did the coins, some dating to the third or fourth century, wind up half a world away in a medieval Japanese castle on the island of Okinawa? Experts suspect they may have arrived centuries later via China or Southeast Asia, not as currency but as decoration or treasure.


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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday October 19 2016, @08:20PM

    by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Wednesday October 19 2016, @08:20PM (#416325) Journal

    The influence of Rome went around a lot earlier than most people think, particularly disseminated through Christianity. (See the history of Christianity in Asia here [wikipedia.org].) We have documented Christian churches operating in China at least as early as the seventh century, and perhaps a lot earlier... where it was known as something like "the religion of the Romans." I mention this mainly because there's apparently a coin in this find showing Constantine I, the first Christian emperor of Rome. If someone knew who he was, I can imagine there might be a reason to preserve such an artifact of the "religion of the Romans." The speculation is that many ancient Roman coins which have been found in China were used as sorts of "talismans," not as currency. So a coin bearing the image of an important figure like Constantine I might be even more valuable within an early Christian community.

    But why go that late? Ancient Rome may have sent ambassadors to China as early as the first century, and they established a sort of "embassy" there by the second century. There wasn't a lot of direct travel between China and Rome that early, but there is a long history of exchange of goods even that early [wikipedia.org] through Asian trade routes. There are thus plenty of Roman artifacts which have been found in China and neighboring regions.

    Given cultural exchange that happened between China and Japan through the medieval period, it's not surprising for some of these things to make the leap to Japan either. It's still an interesting mystery of why precisely this set of coins ended up exactly where it did, but it's not exactly "baffling" that such coins made their way to Japan. This is far from the first set of ancient Roman artifacts which have been found there, though these are probably the earliest coins so far.

    Actually, what's MORE "baffling" about this find is the later coin, dated to 1687, but found in a layer of soil dating 200-300 years earlier that that (dating before the castle was abandoned in 1458). The finding of ancient Roman coins is something I'd describe as "really cool" rather than "baffling," but why they were with a coin dating to 1687 in a layer of older soil... that's a lot more confusing.

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  • (Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday October 19 2016, @09:05PM

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 19 2016, @09:05PM (#416336)

    but why they were with a coin dating to 1687 in a layer of older soil

    Oh Oh the soldiers are coming quick get the shovels and hide our loot in the dirt, we'll come back to get the coins later.

    Oh Oh the soldiers killed us all, some archeologists are going to be really pissed off in 400 years when they dig the coins up.

    Note its always gold coins or similar stores of value, never some broken wine jugs or buttons from a shirt or an old sword. Silver coins, sure, clay tablet with boring but identifiable financial or warehouse records not so much.

    • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Thursday October 20 2016, @03:14AM

      by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Thursday October 20 2016, @03:14AM (#416459) Journal

      You do know that archaeologists can usually tell whether a layer of dirt is due to natural sediment building up over the ages vs. dirt that has been subsequently disturbed, right? The real world isn't like Indiana Jones where archaeologists go out there with big shovels and just dig out the soil looking for cool stuff. Real archaeology usually involves painstakingly slow soil removal, layer by layer, and details like "Hmm, this layer was dug up and then packed down again" are often noticeable.

      Not saying they necessarily can determine that level of detail here, but the issue is -- even if your story is true, it makes one wonder what the devil somebody was doing digging up the dirt and hiding a stash of ancient coins in an abandoned castle at least two centuries after the castle was abandoned... so again, it's confusing.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Wednesday October 19 2016, @09:07PM

    by frojack (1554) on Wednesday October 19 2016, @09:07PM (#416338) Journal

    Ancient Rome may have sent ambassadors to China as early as the first century,

    There is no reason to postulate something so structured as an embassy.

    People were free to wander in those days, and seeking trade goods, they would travel great distances without any official government tie sanctions at all. Some would be killed or captured, others would talk and trade their way across region after regions. Many might have had military training. And lots of slaves escaped roman control. None of these travelers would necessarily be documented in any way. Few would want to be documented.

    There is no reason to expect these coins traveled all that distance in the same hands.

    --
    No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 20 2016, @10:06AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 20 2016, @10:06AM (#416550)

    the later coin, dated to 1687, but found in a layer of soil dating 200-300 years earlier that that (dating before the castle was abandoned in 1458).

    It is almost like they had ability to ... dig dirt in late 17th century to ... bury stashes of precious object under ground for safe keeping! Amazing!