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posted by
cmn32480
on Monday October 31 2016, @06:16PM
from the explosions-killing-everybody-isn't-a-choice dept.
from the explosions-killing-everybody-isn't-a-choice dept.
Researchers at MIT have put together a pictorial survey http://moralmachine.mit.edu/ -- if the self-driving car loses its brakes, should it go straight or turn? Various scenarios are presented with either occupants or pedestrians dying, and there are a variety of peds in the road from strollers to thieves, even pets.
This AC found that I quickly began to develop my own simplistic criteria and the decisions got easier the further I went in the survey.
While the survey is very much idealized, it may have just enough complexity to give some useful results?
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(Score: 2) by Dunbal on Monday October 31 2016, @08:32PM
How about a self driving car that's smart enough to detect a brake malfunction and stop BEFORE something like this is necessary...
(Score: 1) by anubi on Tuesday November 01 2016, @02:32AM
Its been my observation that 99% of the braking I do is not life threatening, rather its to avoid property damage.
The computer should have plenty of warning of impending brake failure, just as I also feel when the brakes are not working right. It has been my experience with brakes that very seldom do I experience a sudden failure from working perfect to complete malfunction. In addition to that, I have normal brakes and parking brakes.
Should the computer register brakes failing, have it fall back to a limp mode if its not too bad, resorting to use of the parking brake - even if it results in expensive to repair damage. Refuse to engage the transmission if both brakes are failing. However, in limp mode, the transmission may be limited to first gear, neutral, park, and reverse. Emergency braking can be done by having transmission in gear, but cutting both fuel and spark to the engine. It won't lock it up, but it will stop the car pretty fast.
I am quite used to a manual transmission, and I have used this before when I had brake failure. When I noticed the brake pedal floored with no action, I went for the hand brake, which used a different mechanism to stop the car. I also discovered putting the car into gear and turning the ignition key off would also bring the car to a complete stop, but at the cost of a muffler when the car was restarted. I believe I damn near woke the whole town when I made the latter discovery. ( carbureted car.... fuel meant for idling went right through the engine, unburned, and pooled in the muffler. I wasn't the brightest bulb in the box doing something like that - so take this from one dimwit who did not have his thinking cap on straight. )
I guess what I am trying to say is that in a panic situation, the car's transmission is more expendable than the occupant or pedestrian. If the brakes suddenly fail, lock up the transmission, even if doing so will destroy the transmission. The newer car's powertrain control modules have control over both the engine and transmission. Take advantage of using it as a brake if you have to.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by sgleysti on Tuesday November 01 2016, @06:02AM
Wait, are you suggesting the car should stop after it detects a brake malfunction?
Stop by what means?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday November 01 2016, @09:24AM
You seem to be under the impression that friction is a rare thing.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Tuesday November 01 2016, @09:28AM
Hint: The car still has a motor. Do the words "motor" and "brake" together remind you of something?
If not, I sincerely hope you are never driving.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by Webweasel on Tuesday November 01 2016, @03:39PM
Depends on the car.
My Toyota Celica GT4 has very strong engine braking, its a manual box designed for acceleration, so the gear ratio makes the engine braking strong.
My Jaguar XJ8 is designed to be smooth and refined, to glide. So there is almost NO engine braking whatsoever. If you let off the accelerator, she will keep gliding along at the same speed, barley a loss of momentum at all. However its an automatic with 4 gears and a far longer gear ratio, so the engine braking is far far less pronounced compared to the GT4.
Gear ratio, Engine size and car weight are major factors in engine braking. YMMV
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Tuesday November 01 2016, @06:09PM
Engine braking is more than just taking your foot off the accelerator. If you downshift a gear or two it won't "glide" anymore.
When I took drivers ed that was a required part of the class -- they'd get the car going 45MPH downhill towards the county reservoir and shut it off, and you had to get it down to ~20MPH before touching the parking brake (no using the regular brakes at all). And then stop before falling into the lake. Obviously you won't come to a *complete* stop without using any brakes if you're going downhill, and it'll take a while on level ground, but you can get down to a much safer speed pretty quickly.
(Score: 2) by Webweasel on Wednesday November 02 2016, @10:41AM
Yes, in a manual. The jag is an automatic.
An automatic will NEVER come to a complete stop without a brake on the wheels of some form, its how they are designed.
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Wednesday November 02 2016, @11:51AM
My drivers ed class used automatics too. You won't come to a *complete* stop, but you should be able to reduce speed from 60 down to around 10, which would make any collision a hell of a lot less violent.