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The board of governors for the Thirty-Meter Telescope has chosen an alternate site for construction that could allow it to cut its losses in Mauna Kea:
The Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) could move to La Palma, in Spain's Canary Islands, if opposition from Native Hawaiians prevents the next-generation observatory from being built atop the Hawaiian mountain of Mauna Kea as planned.
The decision, announced on 31 October by the TMT International Observatory's board of governors, creates an alternative path forward for the troubled mega-telescope. Its opponents blocked access to the Mauna Kea site in April 2015, halting construction, although work on the telescope's components continues at sites around the world. Native Hawaiians regard the decision to build the TMT on Mauna Kea as the continued desecration of a sacred mountaintop that hosts 13 other telescopes, some of which are being decommissioned.
In December, Hawaii's state supreme court nullified the permit that would have allowed the TMT to proceed. A fresh round of hearings began this month, with TMT officials seeking a new permit from the state's Bureau of Land and Natural Resources.
Previously:
Thirty Meter Telescope Considering Move as Hawaii Officials Open Hearing
Hawaiian Court Revokes Permit for Construction of Thirty-Meter-Telescope
Protests Temporarily Halt Thirty-Meter Telescope's Construction in Hawaii
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 01 2016, @03:30PM
> Apparently it wasn't all that sacred when the other 13 telescopes were built.
It was. They were just far easier to steamroll. Native hawaiians are the poorest ethnic group in their own homeland. [ksbe.edu] The internet is a tool that has enabled oppressed groups to organize and get their message heard when previously they were silenced by the inertia of the majority. The balance of power has changed, the country (and the world) is being forced to do more than just give lip service to the ideals of justice and equality.
This is what it looks like when marginalized people are finally heard. Business as usual must change. That doesn't mean business has to stop, but an accommodation for all parties is now necessary.
(Score: 2) by weeds on Tuesday November 01 2016, @03:44PM
Suggesting that blocking the construction of a telescope owing to their mythology will somehow improve their lives is nonsense.
Get money out of politics! [mayday.us]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday November 01 2016, @04:01PM
Suggesting that blocking the construction of a telescope owing to their mythology will somehow improve their lives is nonsense.
The telescope is probably a casualty of a much larger conflict. I think it's a dumb thing to waste political capital on, but they're exercising power that they didn't have before.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 01 2016, @04:05PM
> Suggesting that blocking the construction of a telescope owing to their mythology will somehow improve their lives is nonsense.
So you admit to believing in nonsense. Good on you for being so honest about your own ignorance.
This isn't about blocking a telescope "owing to their mythology" its about every rightsholder having a seat at the table. They have a historical and legal right to the mountaintop. It isn't necessarily an absolute right, but they do have a right. Just because some other group of people think they have a better use for it doesn't automatically negate their rights any more than somebody wanting to build a freeway in your backyard automatically negates your right to control your backyard.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by julian on Tuesday November 01 2016, @04:40PM
its about every rightsholder having a seat at the table.
Every citizen of the State of Hawaii already has a seat at the table.
My family has been on this Earth just as long as any native Hawaiian's, in fact it's literally the same family. Telescopes are sacred to my religion and I need one built there.
Seat at the table, please!
This is literally how ridiculous this line of thinking can get, and there's no argument you can make why your particular cut off for legitimacy and group delineations are more rational than mine.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 01 2016, @04:44PM
> Every citizen of the State of Hawaii already has a seat at the table.
Every citizen of the state does not have the same rights to that land.
How do you not get brain cramps from twisting yourself through the logic of such crazy-ass mental contortions?
(Score: 2) by weeds on Tuesday November 01 2016, @06:41PM
So you admit to believing in nonsense.
Not so sure about your reading comprehension skills.
And if you bother to actually read up on the issue, it is entirely owing to the fact that this is a sacred place.
Try this: http://www.mauna-a-wakea.info/maunakea/F2_whitemountain.html [mauna-a-wakea.info]
A Sample:
In our story of creation, Wakea is the broad expanse, the sky father, partner to Papahanaumoku, earth mother, who gave birth to the islands. Hawai’i island is their hiapo, or eldest child. And Mauna Kea is that child’s piko, or navel. Because of its place in our genealogies, Mauna Kea is a kupuna, an ancestor.
Get money out of politics! [mayday.us]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 01 2016, @07:30PM
> Not so sure about your reading comprehension skills.
I'm not so sure about your snark comprehension skills.
> And if you bother to actually read up on the issue, it is entirely owing to the fact that this is a sacred place.
Surprise, know-it-all geek is reductive. Never saw that before!
Yes its religious significance is the reason its important to the people, but that's not the reason they get a say in its use. They get a say in its use because that's one of the few rights the US government granted to them after the land was taken from their ancestors. If someone wants to take your house because they think they have a better use for it, it does not really matter why your house is important to you, because its your goddamn house!
(Score: 2) by weeds on Tuesday November 01 2016, @08:39PM
You can substitute any reason you want for why they should say no to a telescope, but it's not the reason they gave. You can draw in anything you want, that doesn't change the reason they gave for blocking the project.
My apologies for the ad-hominem comments. I try to stay away from those. Indeed snark detection is a low priority for me as is dialog with AC. Enjoy.
Get money out of politics! [mayday.us]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 01 2016, @08:55PM
> You can substitute any reason you want for why they should say no to a telescope,
You are right, they can substitute any damn reason they please because its their right to decide.
Its like you have decided to aggressively miss the point.
(Score: 2) by weeds on Wednesday November 02 2016, @11:15AM
OK, I think that's the root of it isn't it?
"It will be bad for tourism", "It will impact the water supply", "It will damage the local ecology" All well considered reasons. Entry points to a dialog, possible to discuss, refute, or potentially compromise.
"No, because it's my mountain and I said so." is a position that is lacking.
Get money out of politics! [mayday.us]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by julian on Tuesday November 01 2016, @04:24PM
Native hawaiians are the poorest ethnic group in their own homeland.
So let's have that conversation then, because blocking this telescope will not lift any of them out of poverty.
In fact, if they succeed totally and cast out every pale-faced scientist, throw out the Navy, get rid of the government-funded health clinics, and embrace their newfound sovereignty they would quickly fall to an even lower level of poverty similar to other "independent" Polynesian island nations.
But hey, at least their sacred mountain will only have 13 instead of 14 telescopes. Can't put a price on that kind of victory.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 01 2016, @04:32PM
> So let's have that conversation then, because blocking this telescope will not lift any of them out of poverty.
Save the concern trolling for people who agree the poor deserve to be poor.
You don't like the way they are going about clawing back some of their rights? What are you doing to help then?
> In fact, if they succeed totally and cast out every pale-faced scientist,
Nice strawman. Is your place at the top of heap so fragile that you can't conceive of negotiation?
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday November 01 2016, @07:35PM
How exactly is getting rid of the telescopes going to help them?
And what exactly is there to negotiate? If the mountaintop is sacred, that means you can't build anything there at all. So it's telescopes, or no telescopes. What do you think they're going to negotiate? That they should move the telescopes to somewhere else on the island? Like right next to one of the cities maybe? Telescopes are only useful when they're on high mountaintops, far from civilization and light pollution.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 01 2016, @08:31PM
> How exactly is getting rid of the telescopes going to help them?
Wow, so now you think this about getting rid of the telescopes that are already there. Where the fuck did that come from?
> If the mountaintop is sacred, that means you can't build anything there at all.
Jesus christ, since when is that true?
Do you consider yourself a rational, informed person? If so, how do you rationalizing just making up bullshit like that?