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More than 1,000 motorists a week are being caught speeding on the UK's smart motorways, police figures suggest.
Last year, 52,516 fixed penalties were issued on 11 smart sections, including on stretches of the M1, M25 and M6.
This compared to 2,023 on the same stretches in 2010-11, before they were upgraded to smart motorways - which use the hard shoulder and variable speed limits to control traffic flow.
The government says they are used to improve capacity, not generate revenue.
Smart motorways are operated by Highways England, which uses overhead gantries - also containing speed cameras - to direct traffic into open lanes and change speed limits depending on the volume of traffic.
Ticket revenue has increased tenfold over 5 years. Have British drivers experienced the "improved capacity" that the government uses to justify the smart highways?
(Score: 5, Informative) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday November 08 2016, @12:19AM
Rather an asshole maneuver to not only change the speed limit irregularly so people can't get used to it, but then also automatically ticket them when they get it wrong.
I haven't driven on these in the UK, but my experience in the US is that these are much more heavily marked than your usual speed limit signs (which on highways sometimes seem to only appear once every 10 miles or something).
And while I share your skepticism of government and revenue, I also have to say that variable speed limits DO potentially have lots of benefits. I just posted [soylentnews.org] on it here earlier today for another story.
Basically, traffic flow is kinda like fluid flow. If you know anything about fluid dynamics, there's this stuff called laminar flow (smooth, even) and turbulent flow (lots of eddies, swirling, chaotic). If you try to force liquid to flow too quickly, you get turbulent flow. But more importantly for the present case, the transition from laminar to turbulent is often sudden, but it can happen over a range of throughput and speeds. Once you're in turbulent flow, it's hard to restore order without significantly turning down the flow.
With traffic, if everyone's traveling at 45 mph and happy to be traveling at that speed, you might be able to have smooth flow at a given traffic density. But now if everyone thinks the speed limit is 65 or 70mph and wants to go that fast, they start making odd maneuvers, tailgating, switching lanes frequently, cutting people off. All it takes is one person who does that at the wrong time with a high density of traffic, and suddenly you have a line of cars brake immediately... then another person is forced to maneuver out of a lane... and so the chain reaction continues until 5 minutes later there's stop-and-go traffic stretching back 2 miles.
If you actually enforce a speed limit of 45mph at that traffic density, everybody gets through smoothly. If you don't, you have people stopping suddenly and sitting still or going 5-10mph, then accelerating suddenly to 50mph, then braking suddenly again. You get more accidents, you get more wear-and-tear on cars, you get more emissions and fuel used, AND you get fewer cars through per minute than if you just had the 45 mph speed limit.
People on highways with static speed limits just generally expect to go 65mph or whatever all the time. They just can't adjust to driving reasonably at 45 or 35 or whatever when the density increases, thus leading to aggressive maneuvers and then the stop-and-go scenarios that pervade rush hour most places.
So, sorry man, but if you'd like to get home earlier, you'll need to learn to read variable speed limit signs. Personally, I'm more than happy if the cops give you a ticket for not paying attention to them, since you're making my commute longer.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by bob_super on Tuesday November 08 2016, @12:52AM
Two thoughts:
- If the limit goes down when there is congestion, then it should go up at quiet times. The same road which had a 130km/h limit for my parents' 70s death trap cars can be travelled safely in a modern car at 160 if it's almost empty.
- Once we all have mandatory panopticon surveillance in our cars (sorry, meant "safe driver rebate advocate"), I want it to be used to fine the first person who stops on an unblocked highway lane. Literally millions of hours are wasted in traffic jams because the cars keep stopping instead of crawling along a walking pace. Stopping multiplies the duration other cars have to slow down (or stop in turn), and makes jams last a lot longer than the original cause would have warranted. Gapers should be shot on the spot (after pulling over), but people who stop, when the car in front of theirs hasn't, deserve a lot more scorn than their get. /pet_peeve
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday November 08 2016, @01:20AM
Generally agree, though from my perspective it's not so much the cars stopping as the fact that too many people slam down the accelerator the moment a tiny gap opens in front of them, thus necessitating a quick stop anywhere from a few seconds to a half a minute later.
Normally, the best policy in "stop-and-go" traffic is to try to travel at constant speed, rather than... well, stopping and going. It will actually help to free up the traffic jam, at least going behind you. And assuming you make it to the origin of the jam without actually stopping, you might help clear it entirely.
If you avoid the temptation to accelerate and tailgate the car in front when things start moving, you won't need to slam on your brakes a few moments later. The problem in the US at least is that trying to do that (which, incidentally, is safer -- since it doesn't require sudden braking -- and also is better for your car) is that drivers in traffic behind you can't stand that gap of a few car lengths in front of you. It doesn't matter if traffic is snarled for miles down the road ahead... somehow the fact that you're not moving up to fill that gap of a few extra yards is enough for people change lanes to get around you or even lay on the horn.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday November 08 2016, @01:50AM
I also, quite unconventionally, find traffic jams easier in my manual car than in an automatic. Using engine braking and the clutch makes it easier to smooth the speed variations without sending a triple-red "watch out" signal to the guy behind every ten seconds.
And I don't [bleep]ing look at my phone every time it slows down, adding many seconds to every single stop, like so many monkey-fighting drivers on my monday-to-friday highway.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 08 2016, @03:10AM
You don't know how to engine brake with an automatic?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 08 2016, @08:13AM
Maybe it's the location of the clutch he doesn't know.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday November 08 2016, @06:23PM
I know how to use a clutch, which allows for smooth and precise speed tweaks without ever touching the brakes. Even in modern auto transmissions, where you can change gears much easier than the old ones, you don't have the fine-grain control of coasting...
Done that the other day on an LA highway, more than 30 minutes in a jam without actually stopping nor braking as I coasted to match the period of the speed-and-stop car in front of me. The two cars behind me never had to stop either.
Keeps me entertained and challenged since I don't yap on the phone when I drive. Try it, the other drivers might be happy when the jam goes away faster.
(Score: 2) by tfried on Tuesday November 08 2016, @08:41AM
It will actually help to free up the traffic jam, at least going behind you.
And that, actually, is the root of the problem (when you turn it around): Traffic congestion travels backwards. That asshole doing a stupid overtake and brake maneuver has just saved one tenth of a second on his personal travel time. Problem is he may well have caused hours and days of cumulated time loss for the next few hundred drivers behind him. Not his problem, and in fact - for better or for worse - most of those idiots are not even remotely aware of the trouble they are causing(*).
Which is quite plainly, why it is an absolute necessity to enforce speed limits. On occasion this will cause some inconvenience to sensible drivers, too, but it still provides a huge net benefit to everybody on the road. Seriously, if you think it's ok to ignore plain and clear road signs, you have no business driving on a public road. And in case the problem is you regularly fail to even see those signs then you have no business driving a car.
(*) Although, I must admit I have trouble interpreting it as anything but rude, when on an already congested road some asshole makes a point of overtaking and squeezing into whatever gap I left in front of me. Do you really think I'm going slow because I don't dare travel any faster? Do you think the car in front is going to go faster, when you push hard enough from behind? Or do you just happen to think that your time is more valuable than mine?
(Score: 2) by art guerrilla on Tuesday November 08 2016, @12:15PM
yes, THANK YOU for that last bit... i am constantly agog at the stupid and counterproductive measures drivers take to 'save' a second here or there... here are some of my other driving bugaboos:
1. you are cruising a four-lane highway that has little/no traffic to speak of, a ahead is a cluster of 2-3 cars going the speed limit (or lower) in the right lane, i -going 5-10 above the speed limit- approach from behind for 5 minutes on the open highway, NO WAY they don't see me, they have all the time in the world to pass the other cars in the right lane, BUT, they wait until i am JUST ABOUT to pass that 2-3 car cluster, AND THEN they decide it would be a great idea to pull out into the left lane and pass the people they have been riding behind for the last 20 minutes, and to do so only .1 MPH above the slower cars' cruising speed...
IF i had my hood-mounted RPG in place, they would get a fucking rocket up the tailpipe... I HATE YOU PEOPLE ! ! !
2. morons who you are behind at a left turn light, and instead of turning left when it is green, they are precious and special people who take up the WHOLE GREEN LIGHT WAITING to make a u-turn instead of doing a left and a left to get where they are going... selfish pricks, EVERYONE ELSE needs to make a left turn, and YOU waste the WHOLE left turn cycle waiting to do your u-turn... fuck you too...
3. people who are too important to use turn signals ? yeah, i hate those fuckers too...
4. told a story about some rural driving experiences, and one particularly retarded soylentil was talking about how with the early morning glare on the road, it was just too dangerous to drive under those conditions, blah blah blah... what, are you two years old ? ? ? so there is glare on the road and it is temporarily impossible to see 100% clear, so i stop the car and push it for a hundred yards until i am past that sunny spot ? i call my boss and say i can't come to work until the sun is in a safe position ? i just fucking stop in the middle of the road and get rear-ended ? i only drive at night ?
yeah, right, and i bet you do a 10 point safety check EVERY TIME you get in your big wheel, amirite ? ? ?
5. similarly, had some retarded crackers who parked next to a stop sign to drop off their fat, ugly, stupid yard apes, THEN another car would park next to them going the other way, and sit and chat about their fat, ugly, stupid yard apes... oh, until i had to go around them and a left-turning car almost smashed into me because of THEIR STUPIDITY... oddly enough, since that little incident, they have magically found the other ACRES of suitable areas OUT OF THE WAY to park with their fat, ugly, stupid yard apes waiting for the bus...
um, was it too fucking much to ask that you actually THINK and CONSIDER the implications of the stupid shit you fucking 'tards were doing ? ? ?
evidently it is...
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday November 08 2016, @02:39PM
2. morons who you are behind at a left turn light, and instead of turning left when it is green, they are precious and special people who take up the WHOLE GREEN LIGHT WAITING to make a u-turn instead of doing a left and a left to get where they are going... selfish pricks, EVERYONE ELSE needs to make a left turn, and YOU waste the WHOLE left turn cycle waiting to do your u-turn... fuck you too...
I live on a street that heads all the way to downtown and it's one of those fun ones with 2 lanes either direction, so you're constantly rolling the dice on which lane to be in to try to avoid getting stuck behind people backed up waiting to turn. It's kind of ridiculous how many people want to make left turns during rush hour :P
Also fun when you're at a stoplight in that situation and they don't bother to put on their turn signal until the light turns green. I'm deciding which lane to be in on the assumption that you're not turning like you say. Ha, psych!
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday November 08 2016, @02:45PM
Not his problem, and in fact - for better or for worse - most of those idiots are not even remotely aware of the trouble they are causing(*).
Not only that, but I don't think people are aware of how little time they are saving -- and sometimes even losing time.
Years ago, I remember when I was stuck in traffic on a highway and rather bored, and I saw this big car with gold hubcaps (you know the type) traveling beside me. It was driving very aggressively even though the traffic was basically stopped on the highway, with moments of moving ahead that never went above 10-15 mph.
I watched this ostentatious car switching lanes whenever he could to move into whatever lane seemed to be moving a bit at the moment. In the process, he often ended up causing more braking and probably was helping to propagate the slow traffic backwards even further.
But the interesting thing is although he moved ahead of me a bit early on, over the 20 minutes or so I was stuck in this slow traffic, this car gradually ended up behind me. Farther and farther, until it was lost in the distance. Here was a guy trying to take every opportunity to get ahead when he saw a lane moving a bit, but actually it was counterproductive and ended up making less progress than if he had just stuck with any lane and went with it. (Mostly I think this happened because by the time enough traffic was moving in a given lane to open up a gap large enough for him to swap, the moving segment was past its midpoint... so he was perpetually moving to lanes just to get a smaller amount of the forward progress than if he had just stayed in a lane.)
I'm not saying this is always true, but it showed me that the aggressive strategy of trying to "outsmart" traffic doesn't always work. (And of course, even if it did, it's unlikely to save this person more than a minute or so, unless there was an obvious lane imbalance before a merge or something.)
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday November 08 2016, @06:07PM
It is possible to go consistently faster than the stop-and-go traffic by changing lanes just as your lane starts slowing.
It is extremely justified to be called an asshole for doing it.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday November 08 2016, @02:33PM
but people who stop, when the car in front of theirs hasn't, deserve a lot more scorn than their get. /pet_peeve
Those of us who drive manual transmissions and want to keep our clutch intact have an issue with this during rush hour. I *can't* creep along at 2 mph.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday November 08 2016, @03:13PM
I *can't* creep along at 2 mph.
Maybe not 2 mph, but that's rarely necessary. Even relatively heavy stop-and-go traffic often moves at average speeds more like 5-10 mph, which (depending on the transmission) you can often just coast in 1st to maintain constant speed (or maybe 2nd, if the average speed is a little higher). Truckers somehow have managed to do this with manual transmissions for decades.
The more common problem is that this traffic frequently will accelerate to 15-20 mph (or even higher) for a few seconds, then slow to a crawl for a while, then stop, and then repeat. If you just keep at the steady 5-10mph the whole time, there's less wear and tear on your clutch, your brakes, your transmission, and less fuel use. Most people, though, simply can't help themselves and feel an irrational NEED to catch up with that car in front... which then leads to being stuck in the "crawl" before stop or whatever. Instead, if you go slow and constant, by the time you catch up, you don't need to crawl at all, but can keep going at the 5-10 mph you've been at all along.
I know this isn't always possible (and some cars are more likely to stall out than others at low speeds), but I find it's much more typical than a stretch of road creeping along at 2 mph for an extended period.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday November 08 2016, @03:45PM
Maybe not 2 mph, but that's rarely necessary. Even relatively heavy stop-and-go traffic often
You obviously haven't driven my commute before :P
As for the rest of your comment, yeah I try to minimize the amount of shifting I have to do, which naturally results in the driving pattern you're advocating.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"