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from the that-still-doesn't-mean-it-will-work dept.
After months of speculation and leaked documents, NASA's long-awaited EM Drive paper has finally been peer-reviewed and published [open, DOI: 10.2514/1.B36120] [DX]. And it shows that the 'impossible' propulsion system really does appear to work. The NASA Eagleworks Laboratory team even put forward a hypothesis for how the EM Drive could produce thrust – something that seems impossible according to our current understanding of the laws of physics.
In case you've missed the hype, the EM Drive, or Electromagnetic Drive, is a propulsion system first proposed by British inventor Roger Shawyer back in 1999. Instead of using heavy, inefficient rocket fuel, it bounces microwaves back and forth inside a cone-shaped metal cavity to generate thrust. According to Shawyer's calculations, the EM Drive could be so efficient that it could power us to Mars in just 70 days.
takyon: Some have previously dismissed EmDrive as a photon rocket. This is addressed in the paper along with other possible sources of error:
The eighth [error:] photon rocket force, RF leakage from test article generating a net force due to photon emission. The performance of a photon rocket is several orders of magnitude lower than the observed thrust. Further, as noted in the above discussion on RF interaction, all leaking fields are managed closely to result in a high quality RF resonance system. This is not a viable source of the observed thrust.
[...] The 1.2 mN/kW performance parameter is over two orders of magnitude higher than other forms of "zero-propellant" propulsion, such as light sails, laser propulsion, and photon rockets having thrust-to-power levels in the 3.33–6.67 μN/kW (or 0.0033–0.0067 mN/kW) range.
Previously: NASA Validates "Impossible" Space Drive's Thrust
"Reactionless" Thruster Tested Again, This Time in a Vacuum
Explanation may be on the way for the "Impossible" EmDrive
Finnish Physicist Says EmDrive Device Does Have an Exhaust
EmDrive Peer-Reviewed Paper Coming in December; Theseus Planning a Cannae Thruster Cubesat
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Tuesday November 22 2016, @04:09PM
> even enabling terrestrial flight (Back to the Future II style).
In that case the next NASA paper on the subject will be an investigation into the environmental / health effects of this thing. It's all very well up in space where there is very little to pollute, but I know I wouldn't want BTTF-style flying cars & hoverboards buzzing about over my head until I knew they weren't going to give me cancer or catastrophically poison the environment somehow. And if we don't know exactly how it works, the only way we can assess the potential impact on our surroundings is by lots and lots of long-term animal (and maybe later human) experiments, which could be a decades long process.
But yeah, the space applications are very exciting. Asteroid mining, off-world colonies, it all suddenly looks a lot more achievable.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 22 2016, @04:15PM
It is new so there is always some concern, but it is more like a weirdly shaped microwave oven. As long as it doesn't leak too much there shouldn't be a problem.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 22 2016, @04:52PM
The point is, it has effects that we cannot explain and didn't expect. So it also might have other effects we cannot explain and didn't expect.
It's just like with the discovery of X rays. People didn't think of them as dangerous until people started getting cancer from it.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Tuesday November 22 2016, @10:54PM
In Soviet Russia. microwave ovens were banned, or at least so said a young earth creationist with an interest in nutrition. Make of that what you will :-)
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday November 22 2016, @04:22PM
And why would you want a NASA paper on it? Roger Shawyer is the one with the secret magic flying car sauce known as EmDrive 2.0, not NASA. And he has supposedly partnered with a previously unnamed UK aerospace company [ibtimes.co.uk], which is now said to be Gilo Industries Group [ibtimes.co.uk], the makers of Parajet Skycar [wikipedia.org]. Not NASA. He also claims that the US Department of Defense and UK Ministry of Defence are interested in it, not NASA.
I guess it would be bad if the thrust was some kind of crazy radiation that was extremely harmful to life, but if it is, it will probably be found out before it ever hits market or demo stage. Just gotta get some poor sap from engineering to stick their hand in front of the RF resonant cavity (actually, the new version might not have anything that looks like a cavity/nozzle).
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(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Tuesday November 22 2016, @06:20PM
> the thrust was some kind of crazy radiation that was extremely harmful to life, but if it is, it will probably be found out before it ever hits market or demo stage
By the defunded EPA, the defunded OSHA, the defunded DOE, or the defunded NASA?
Oh! I know, I know! Thanks to the negative studies and lawsuits generously financed by the established corporations fighting a new entrant in the propulsion market!
Thanks for protecting us, FreeMarketMan!
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday November 22 2016, @06:55PM
It's energy thrust, not asbestos/dioxin/benzene spray. The only thing complicated about it is making more of it.
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(Score: 1) by Demena on Tuesday November 22 2016, @11:34PM
It works by changing the inertial weight of in-flight photons. Thus the drive needs to move -thrust- for conservation of momentum. Basicly it is a giant Casimir effect. It should not be a problem. Nor do we have to imagine dark matter or dark energy anymore. This, MiHsC, explains all four effects.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23 2016, @01:37AM
This, MiHsC is hitler though?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday November 23 2016, @04:34AM
Back away from the Amazon Prime TV!
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23 2016, @06:14AM
But MiHsC is hitler, right?
"I will raise from the grave and then you will know that I was right"
Direct conversion of energy to momentum is what he was speaking of, correct?
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Tuesday November 22 2016, @06:04PM
You guys don't seem to understand this thing. You only get tiny amounts in thrust, but with no friction and only microgravity just a tiny bit of continuous thrust will get you moving really fast, but getting up to speed takes a while.
You're not going to defeat gravity with one of these.
And the only environmental hazards would be your source of electricity, since this drive doesn't leak anything. Before you get a hoverboard out of this, you're going to have to have the equivalent of a municipal power plant or more in its batteries.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 22 2016, @06:44PM
FTFY. The very fact that it thrusts, together with the very fact that space is homogeneous, strongly suggests that there is something leaking out, even if we don't know what it is.
Maybe this drive actually exhausts dark matter. Can you exclude that possibility? (Well, if it does, I'd expect the exhaust to be harmless — but the only way to know is to test.)
Of course as long as it is only useful in space, the exhaust doesn't really matter. I don't think many people care about polluting interplanetary space.
(Score: 1) by Demena on Tuesday November 22 2016, @11:43PM
Sorry but you appear to be in error. Consider the thrust produced by the Casimir effect. No radiation. The "EM" drive is a Hubble scale Casimir effect. It is relying on radiation (Unruh radiation) that is already there.
What I like is what it does for Mach
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23 2016, @06:17AM
"Consider the thrust produced by the Casimir effect."
Nazi CIS white male bullshit.
Probably want to rape young girls too.
AOC should be 25, fucking white males.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Tuesday November 22 2016, @06:59PM
Maybe you haven't read around. The inventor is claiming to do just that - defeat gravity - with the second generation of emdrive.
If one version of his devices produces anomalous thrust, the newer claims should at least be taken seriously.
I'm still waiting for the paper that disproves the first iteration of emdrive. Now we have a peer-reviewed vacuum test.
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(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Wednesday November 23 2016, @02:43AM
Well, if and when, then I'll have Dewey's ships upgrading from the terrawatt ion drives.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday November 23 2016, @04:33AM
*terawatt [wikipedia.org]
sexy though
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(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Friday November 25 2016, @02:04AM
I hate typoos!
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday November 23 2016, @03:42AM
Yeah, that theory is a bit farther out there, but having already knocked one set of "known physical laws" on their ear, we should at least give the guy some funding to work on his next idea - no matter how wonky it seems.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 22 2016, @06:21PM
but I know I wouldn't want BTTF-style flying cars & hoverboards buzzing about over my head until I knew they weren't going to give me cancer or catastrophically poison the environment somehow.
I think gravity and unanticipated crainial displacement should be your primary concern.