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posted by takyon on Saturday November 26 2016, @12:01PM   Printer-friendly
from the west-triumphs dept.

Fidel Castro's death has been announced by Cuban state television:

Cuba's former president Fidel Castro, one of the world's longest-serving and most iconic leaders, has died aged 90. His younger brother and successor as president Raul Castro announced the news on state television.

Castro toppled the government in 1959, introducing a Communist revolution. He defied the US for decades, surviving many assassination plots. His supporters said he had given Cuba back to the people. Critics saw him as a dictator.

Ashen and grave, President Castro told the nation in an unexpected late night broadcast on state television that Fidel Castro had died and would be cremated later on Saturday. "The commander in chief of the Cuban revolution died at 22:29 hours this evening (03:29 GMT Saturday)," he said. "Towards victory, always!" he added, using a revolutionary slogan. A period of official mourning has been declared on the island until 4 December, when his ashes will be laid to rest in the south-eastern city of Santiago.

Also at Bloomberg (world leaders react), Washington Post, NYT, The Guardian, CNN, NPR, WSJ, PBS, and Reuters. Editorials at the Miami Herald and Daily Beast.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 26 2016, @12:15PM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 26 2016, @12:15PM (#433186) Journal

    The US has done some crazy work, over the years, almost deifying evil sumbitches, and demonizing other people who weren't so very bad. Expect tons of demonizing of Fidel.

    But, all in all, he managed to keep his country pretty stable for decades. Compare to Columbia, or Mexico. Those nations are our "friends", and we "help" them a hell of a lot. And, they are both cesspools to be avoided.

    Fidel Castro really didn't do to badly, if you think about it. Cubans didn't have to suffer with a Shah of Iran, or the Islamic Revolution that deposed him.

    Rest in peace, you crazy old coot.

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  • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday November 26 2016, @12:28PM

    by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday November 26 2016, @12:28PM (#433189) Homepage

    Yeah, I have always been in favor of normalizing relations with Cuba. I hear they have a good classic car market and the tourism would probably get better over time as well.

    Here's a fun-fact - the NES game Guerrilla War was originally called Guevara and features players 1 and 2 as Che Guevara and Fidel Castro. Although the title was changed to appease the puritanical Reaganite censors, it's still pretty obvious [schnittberichte.com] that this game is a playthrough of the Cuban Revolution. [schnittberichte.com]

    Fulgencio Batista is the final boss of the game, and like all media involving Latinos there are plenty of farm animals in the game, including in the humorous (and badass, for the NES) ending sequence [youtube.com] which depicts a woman turning into a pig.

       

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 26 2016, @01:35PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 26 2016, @01:35PM (#433200)

      If I'm not mistaken the game "Bionic Commando" for the NES features Adolf Hitler as end boss, not sure on the details though.

      • (Score: 2) by r1348 on Saturday November 26 2016, @02:26PM

        by r1348 (5988) on Saturday November 26 2016, @02:26PM (#433214)

        Not sure about Bionic Commando, but Wolfenstein sure does.

      • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday November 26 2016, @04:20PM

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday November 26 2016, @04:20PM (#433272) Homepage

        You are correct. The original also featured swaztikas [11points.com] which were removed in the American version. The word "Hilter" was also changed to "Master-D" in the American version, although his appearance remains unchanged.

        Notably, being called a "damn fool" [deadicatedfans.com] by Hitler was not censored in the American version, and as you can tell from the first image linked, either was a close-up of his head exploding after being shot with a rocket-launcher.

        The head-exploding scene was done much more dramatically [youtube.com] in the remake, Bionic Commando: Rearmed.

  • (Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Saturday November 26 2016, @01:18PM

    by wisnoskij (5149) <{jonathonwisnoski} {at} {gmail.com}> on Saturday November 26 2016, @01:18PM (#433197)

    I have never heard anything bad about his regime, but it seems pretty stupid that he did not hand the reigns off to someone else before he died of old age (how much work was he able to do as a 89 year old man?). And it seems fairly stupid to hand the reigns over to someone who could die of old age tomorrow.

    It paints a picture of a dictator who cares more about his personal power than of the people he is supposed to be leading.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by damnbunni on Saturday November 26 2016, @01:26PM

      by damnbunni (704) on Saturday November 26 2016, @01:26PM (#433198) Journal

      Fidel handed the country to Raul Castro temporarily in 2006, and permanently in 2008.

      I'm sure Fidel served as an advisor as he was able, but his health wouldn't let him do much even if Raul wanted to consult with him about things.

      If Raul kicks the bucket the presidency will go to his VP, who I know nothing about, but is in his mid-50s (Miguel Díaz-Canel).

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Saturday November 26 2016, @03:29PM

      by bzipitidoo (4388) on Saturday November 26 2016, @03:29PM (#433239) Journal

      Never heard anything bad?? Cuban-Americans vehemently disagree. They're the ones who had everything stripped from them in the Cuban Revolution of 1959. They were the ones hogging up all of Cuba's wealth and impoverishing the rest of the country, and deserved losing what they had stolen themselves, but to be stripped of everything and invited to leave is possibly going too far. But then, that's what often happens in a revolution, and they played a large part in bringing it upon themselves.

      The 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis was very bad. Damn near started Nuclear War. Castro was a young, hotblooded fool when he led Cuba into that mess. He didn't change his basic attitude of course, but he learned that was way too confrontational and the wrong way to fight his war against capitalism, and thereafter was more circumspect.

      Then there was the late 1970s Mariel Boatlift. Cuba dumped their economic troubles on the US, encouraged over 100,000 economic refugees to cross the sea to Florida. That was bad enough, but Cuba also turned loose their very worst, most violent prisoners and mental basket cases and mixed them in with the refugees. An episode like that casts doubt on the government's economic policies. If Castro's goal was to demonstrate the superiority of socialism over capitalism, that boatlift was a huge fail.

      Getting all friendly with enemies of the US needs to be done with delicacy and discrimination. Perhaps Iran was undeservedly slandered with that Axis of Evil label, but North Korea probably should not have been friended. If anyone should know the perils of Nuclear gamesmanship, it ought to be Castro.

      It's pretty hard for any regime not to make any major blunders over a half century.

      As to Castro's goal of championing Socialism or Communism over Capitalism, that is at best a draw. Yes, he has a point about crony capitalism. It is bad and unfair. His answer was to overthrow it, rather than reform it. Was there a better answer? How have the Socialists handled the problems with their system? They seem to have made their version of Socialism work well enough for it to survive. The disagreement will continue, for now.

      • (Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Saturday November 26 2016, @04:21PM

        by wisnoskij (5149) <{jonathonwisnoski} {at} {gmail.com}> on Saturday November 26 2016, @04:21PM (#433273)

        We have some very different opinions, I guess. I see no possible way to allow the ex-ruling elite stay in the country. It would cost way to much financially, and in good will, to keep them safe. And protecting them from the masses would be paramount to imprisoning them.

        As for the Missile Crisis, it really did not seem like America was going to allow an independent communist country to exist so close to their borders.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Saturday November 26 2016, @07:33PM

          by bzipitidoo (4388) on Saturday November 26 2016, @07:33PM (#433363) Journal

          The ruling elites have to start reform well before revolution breaks out. If they instead quash reform, go so far as to use force to end strikes and demonstrations and the like, they're stoking the hate and trapping themselves. Once mass violence breaks out, then exile or death may indeed be the only options, as you say.

          But things don't always turn violent. Gorbachev didn't have to leave when the Soviet Union fell, as he didn't try resorting to force to hang on, and he was one of the victims of the putsch, and had been trying to reform. Even the perps, the Gang of Eight, didn't have to leave, though many did spend 18 months in prison when their putsch collapsed.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 26 2016, @07:54PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 26 2016, @07:54PM (#433369)

          Yes. It was clear to Castro that disempowering the Aristocrats was essential to disassemble the existing Oligarchy.
          Those folks were what was propped up the murderous monster Fulgencio Batista.

          In your previous post, you said
          I have never heard anything bad about his regime

          Cuba is a pretty impressive place on several levels. [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [dissidentvoice.org]
          Under the Castro brothers, homelessness in Cuba is essentially zero.

          Cuba has a very high literacy rate.
          They have gratis education--as far as your abilities can take that.
          Cuba is especially great when it come to producing doctors.

          They have very effective gratis healthcare which concentrates on prevention and early intervention via high availability.
          They export medical personnel in order to generate cash.
          N.B. Cuba has repeatedly offered medical personnel to USA e.g. after Hurricane Katrina.
          USA.gov has consistently rejected those offers of help and instead lets its (most impoverished) people suffer.

          When you look at the participation rates in Cuban elections and compare that to the huge number of USAians who think "Why bother?", you realize how much more democratic Cubans think their system is than do USAians.

          Some Soylentils have used the term "dictator".
          I see Castro as being like Tito in Yugoslavia:
          He -could- intervene any time he thought his vision of the country was being threatened, but mostly he let things play out.

          .
          All of that said, Cuba has really fallen down in its promise of "socialism".
          While I commend them for not allowing megacorporations or even chain store operations, they -do- allow an exploitation of workers via Capitalist ownership of (small, single location) businesses.
          They have NOT made a significant effort to promote the notion of worker-owned cooperatives the way that e.g. Italy has using Italy's Maracora law. [google.com]
          (I have this same critique of Chavista Venezuela.)

          Cuban political prisons have also been mentioned in this (meta)thread.
          ...though, if it would be interesting to look at the number among USA's prison population of 2.4 million who didn't take other people's property nor pose a physical threat to someone else and compare that to the number in Cuban prisons for thoughtcrime.

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

      • (Score: 2) by gawdonblue on Sunday November 27 2016, @12:15AM

        by gawdonblue (412) on Sunday November 27 2016, @12:15AM (#433460)

        The 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis (when Cuba installed Soviet missiles for its mutually-assured defence) - was that before or after the 1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion (when the CIA trained and funded a counter-revolutionary invasion of Cuba)?

        I doubt the mangy buzzard will ever learn from its foreign-interfering mistakes.

        But who knows, maybe Trump will be a positive influence. Most of the world lives in hope.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by cmn32480 on Saturday November 26 2016, @03:20PM

    by cmn32480 (443) <reversethis-{moc.liamg} {ta} {08423nmc}> on Saturday November 26 2016, @03:20PM (#433236) Journal

    Spend time in one of his political prisons, or talk to some people who did (like my Uncle). You just might change your mind.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba [wikipedia.org]

    http://babalublog.com/fidel-castros-greatest-atrocities-and-crimes/ [babalublog.com]

    The old Cubans are celebrating today and rightfully so.

    --
    "It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear" - Norm Peterson
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 26 2016, @03:47PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 26 2016, @03:47PM (#433249) Journal

      If I spent a few decades locked up in the US of A, maybe at Gitmo Bay, I'd have some pretty bad things to say about the USA as well.

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 26 2016, @05:50PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 26 2016, @05:50PM (#433309)

        Why about the USA? Gitmo is in Cuba, so obviously it should count under Cuban atrocities.

        Maybe one day the US is going to use the human rights abuses at Gitmo as a casus beli and invade Cuba.

        Ain't exporting your human rights abuses just grand?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 26 2016, @06:26PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 26 2016, @06:26PM (#433333)

        DIIIIPSHIT.

        If people were making a parody of a self-absorbed clueless Liberal, it would sound exactly like you.

        Calling Republicans Hitler while praising a 70 year dictator who is the actual closest thing to him.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Sulla on Saturday November 26 2016, @07:54PM

        by Sulla (5173) on Saturday November 26 2016, @07:54PM (#433368) Journal

        Why not have qualms with both? Castro will go to hell for his crimes, and Bush will most likely do the same (presuming hell does exist). Both tyrants, both condoned murder and torture, and both oppressed for the sake of oppression.

        --
        Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday November 27 2016, @06:26AM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday November 27 2016, @06:26AM (#433556) Journal

          It does, though not the way any religion suspects, although I would say the less-dogmatic Buddhists are least wrong on this (that is, there's no geometric stacking of hells one after another with a 20x multiplier on residence time, etc). My girlfriend's been there, and not as a "tourist" during an NDE either.

          The good news is, as far as I can tell it appears to be a self-inflicted and self-correcting process: there are no more illusions in the clear light of death, and one's evils are reflected back on them utterly unfiltered in a perfect one-to-one ratio. This is of course incredibly painful, and people perceive it mostly the way their cultures tell them to. My girlfriend was a Buddhist at the time, for example, so she actually met up with Enma Daiou and got sentenced to one of the traditional Buddhist hells -- or so she thought, because this is what she had been trained to expect.

          It's really just your own mind trying to make sense of what's happening to you through the only lens it has.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 2) by cmn32480 on Tuesday November 29 2016, @03:51AM

        by cmn32480 (443) <reversethis-{moc.liamg} {ta} {08423nmc}> on Tuesday November 29 2016, @03:51AM (#434338) Journal

        Most of my family were never in Castro's prisons. All of the ones that are here fled Cuba with not much more than the clothes on their back and what they could pack in a suitcase to make it look like they were going on vacation.

        He drove people from their homes, killed thousands who disagreed with him, and lived a life of luxury while the people of the island wallowed in poverty. Some great leader.

        If Cuba is currently so wonderful, why are people STILL building rafts from anything that will float to GTFO??

        I hope the bastard is slow roasting.

        --
        "It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear" - Norm Peterson
        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday November 29 2016, @05:23AM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 29 2016, @05:23AM (#434353) Journal

          You remind me of our own history in the US. We kinda gloss over the Tories who fled the US to Canada. Wonder what their take is on our revolution, and subsequent history.

          I'm trying for a comparison here. Is Cuba as bad as Iraq is today? Afghanistan? How about Syria?

          My major problem with the invasion of Iraq is that we pretty much destroyed a culture, and replaced it with ISIS. As bad as Hussein was, he maintained a level of stability in Iraq for decades. Today, it's just about the MOST unstable place in the world. Ukraine is vastly more stable than Iraq. And, I think that Cuba is probably more stable than Ukraine.

          The only first hand experience that I have with Cuba, is going ashore at Gitmo, and having a couple beers in the EM club. I'm sure that you know more about Cuba than I do, but still, people aren't dying by the thousands of starvation, disease, and political upheavals. It's a pretty safe, stable country to live in, unless you actively oppose the government, right?

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 26 2016, @08:35PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 26 2016, @08:35PM (#433378)

    But, all in all, he managed to keep his country pretty stable for decades. Compare to Columbia, or Mexico. Those nations are our "friends", and we "help" them a hell of a lot. And, they are both cesspools to be avoided.

    Yes, "help" is the operative word here. Like help ship guns there. Help fund killings in name of war on drugs. And of course, by funding those drug lords by keeping war on drugs going.

    If it wasn't for the ridicules "War on Drugs" being staged in those countries via US "help", neither Columbia nor Mexico would have problems they have now.

    Fidel Castro really didn't do to badly, if you think about it. Cubans didn't have to suffer with a Shah of Iran, or the Islamic Revolution that deposed him.

    Shah of Iran was replaced by a democratically elected government. But that government didn't like British Oil Company, so the Brits and Americans to prop up their business interests used the CIA to overthrow the democratic government of Iran and replace it with the Shah.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh#Operation_TPAjax [wikipedia.org]

    Rest in peace, you crazy old coot.

    RIP Castro. Maybe he wasn't the best person to lead Cuba, but he certainly has done better than the other places "helped" by US, like examples you've given.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 26 2016, @10:38PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 26 2016, @10:38PM (#433425) Journal

      I was referring to THIS shah - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi [wikipedia.org]

      The US, with the approval of the UK, overthrew that democratically elected government which you refer to, and installed this puppet to rule Iran. This is the puppet who was later overthrown by the Islamic Revolution. We owe the existence of Iran's deist government to this man and the CIA.

      Oh - the reason we destroyed that democratically elected government? Because they were holding out for more money from BP - British Petroleum. Despite some formal name changes since then, that is the very same BP working the petroleum business today.

      So, to summarize, we subjected the Iranians to a couple decades of despotic rule, to help ensure that a British oil company made a fat profit.

  • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday November 27 2016, @07:06AM

    by Reziac (2489) on Sunday November 27 2016, @07:06AM (#433569) Homepage

    You might want to read this:

    http://city-journal.org/html/last-communist-city-13649.html [city-journal.org]

    --
    And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 27 2016, @08:49PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 27 2016, @08:49PM (#433758)

      FTFL (link)
      Marxists have ruled Cuba for more than a half-century now

      ...which he immediately contradicts by saying

      But rather than raise the poor up, Castro and Guevara shoved the rich and the middle class down

      That turkey (like you) is simply disingenuous and repeats USA.gov's propaganda.
      Marxism is about empowering The Working Class (there is no such thing as "the middle class"--there's only The Idle Rich and those who have only labor to offer to earn a living).

      Actual Marxists would have immediately and dramatically started a plan to seed masses of worker-owned cooperatives.
      (Mao did this with farming collectives, and Italy--y'know that well-known "COMMUNIST" country {waves hands wildly}--has done it for over 30 years via their Maracora Law.)

      N.B. I'm not supplying any supporting links because you don't follow them anyway; [soylentnews.org] you revel in your gargantuan Reactionary ignorance.

      Cuba was one of the world’s richest countries before Castro destroyed it

      I notice that he doesn't mention the USA's 5-decade-plus blockade.
      He also didn't mention how Cuba was largely run by the USA's organized crime ("The Mob") before 1959.

      Communism destroyed Cuba’s prosperity

      The kinds of dishonest links that you find, containing dishonest terms, are not surprising to me.
      You continue to beat the drum of ignorance.

      That this tiny island, smaller than many states in the USA, should be the cause of such irrational, disproportionate fear demonstrates the utter failure of USA foreign policy as well as the willingness of USA's Lamestream Media to spew ignorance and unwarranted hatred for over half a century.

      USA.gov -could- have embraced the new regime in Cuba and had a BFF.
      Instead, USA.gov tried hundreds and hundreds of times to murder its leader.
      USA.gov was scared shitless that USA's Working Class might be inspired to learn about how they could become empowered and kick out the USA's Oligarchy and have DEMOCRACY EVERYWHERE, so USA.gov spread lies and hate at every turn and threw up a blockade on its 3rd-closest neighbor which continues to this day.

      -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

      • (Score: 2) by Yog-Yogguth on Sunday November 27 2016, @11:52PM

        by Yog-Yogguth (1862) Subscriber Badge on Sunday November 27 2016, @11:52PM (#433830) Journal

        You do raise many valid points but some of the stuff you say (and believe) is like you're chocking yourself till you're blue :( (I'm sure I do it too, not trying to be mean).

        "...Mao did this with farming collectives..."

        No pun intended but you want to take ownership of that? Really? You haven't heard about the result that got them? It's not like the Chinese try to deny it. They tried it in the Soviet Union too, and Israel, and "hippie" communes, and plenty of other places. You don't need no special laws, you can try it anywhere you can buy land and invite people, so almost everywhere. I've been told there's basically only one village left in China today that does it that way. Sorry I don't remember the name but they're famous for it now since it's all gone elsewhere so a Chinese might be able to tell you the name.

        It only works with the right selection of rare people who almost never self-select voluntarily and most of those people had already been shot and the rest had to be forced together with all the other "stinky" teachers, doctors, and other professionals being sent out from the cities to do their share under the gun.

        Sorry to be a downer, it's great —outright fantastic— if you can make it work with likeminded people like a few do but there are plenty of reasons why there aren't many of those about :|

        Want to see it done right? Free source is the closest example ever; entirely voluntary or paid, never forced, and no longer communist. No bullshit ideology (any ideology) to prescribe dogmatic "solutions" and at most a set of somewhat loose and relevant aims (the four freedoms) who most people and participants haven't even heard of.

        Each time someone drags in the "marxism" as a fits-all silver bullet all they end up doing is moving towards the opposite. Not that they're the only ones, not by a long shot. If it wasn't that way we would all have been marxist (or whatever else worked) a long time ago.

        Anyway back on topic (we might agree on this):
        Fidel deserves no credit for Cuba, Cubans do, they're the ones who had and still have to survive him, his brother, and their acolytes. The global "elite" "in-crowd" sycophants deserve to be spat upon and ridiculed as the shit they are.

        And as we used to say in the cold war: "hate communism, love the communist" (at least the ordinary/"true" ones) :)

        --
        Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @01:53AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @01:53AM (#433868)

          farming collectives

          They tried it in the Soviet Union

          You should investigate that before speaking out on it.
          Start with the famine imposed by the Totalitarian Soviet gov't on the Ukraine in 1932-1933.
          What the Soviets had was State Capitalism.
          What the Soviet Union had was still peasants who still had their work product taken away at gunpoint.

          Mao's program was one of education and cooperation.
          The 2 systems weren't anything alike.
          There's a scene I really like from a Cold War Era movie with Glenn Ford playing a young USAian officer who hasn't swallowed the Reactionary bullshit. [google.com]

          You don't need no special laws, you can try [Socialism] anywhere

          First, you have to shed decades of indoctrination that has been telling you that top-down is the only way to do things.
          Cast aside the Hobbesian philosophy that, without overlords, "the life of man [is] solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short".
          Discard those societal "values" in which you have been steeped which told you that *competition* is glorious and **cooperation** is for sissies.

          Next, you're going to have to pick up some entrepreneurial know-how.
          They make a point of avoiding instruction in that in public schools.
          (Good thing we're not in France; they don't even have a word for "entrepreneurial" there.)

          It only works with the right selection of rare people

          Nonsense. Mondragon has them by the tens of thousands.
          Northern Italy also has them by the tens of thousands.

          some of the stuff you say

          ...and have said again and again and again.
          You haven't been paying good attention.
          ...and I recently noted that USA has over 400 companies that are (Socialist) worker-owned cooperatives.

          With the 2 big political parties having sold out The Working Class for over 4 decades, the gov't isn't any help either.
          (I think this last election has stirred 1 of those from its sleepwalking toward the Authoritarian/Plantation Capitalism edge.)
          N.B. I expect Elizabeth Warren to kick Trump's ass at every turn for the next 4 years and stomp him thoroughly when she runs against him in 2020.

          The biggest problem is that Lamestream Media doesn't allow any examples of actual Socialism to be included.
          ...and most USAians get home, flop down in front of the TeeVee, and slip their brains into Park.

          Free source [Open Source??] is the closest example ever

          ...if you ignore the thousands and thousand of folks that I just pointed to.

          You, like Reziac, need to stop swallowing USA.gov's decades-out-of-date[1] Cold War bullshit and read some History that was not written by Reactionaries.

          [1] ...and it was bullshit then as well.

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

          • (Score: 2) by Yog-Yogguth on Monday November 28 2016, @07:29PM

            by Yog-Yogguth (1862) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 28 2016, @07:29PM (#434159) Journal

            LOL :)

            --
            Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
            • (Score: 2) by Yog-Yogguth on Monday November 28 2016, @08:25PM

              by Yog-Yogguth (1862) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 28 2016, @08:25PM (#434194) Journal

              I should explain my laughter to those who don't get it.

              I'm laughing because OriginalOwner is perfectly mirroring all the communists of the 70ies and likely just about every communist before that as well :)

              They were all like him, many but not all the newer ones still are, the old ones either died or became a large part of the current crop of asshole European "centrist" politicians. They were filled to the brim with unquestioning faith in their ideology and not actually listening to anyone but themselves. For all I know even the Soviet inventor of the mobile gas chamber a hundred years ago was identical in faith to OriginalOwner, there's not much reason to suspect he or she wasn't since the ideology and aspirations are identical. There's absolutely nothing new under the sun as far as OrignalOwner is concerned and among non-violent responses one can only choose between laughing or crying, I choose laughter.

              OriginalOwner is the embodiment and cause of precisely the failures that he thinks he opposes, a young Fidel, Lenin, or Stalin :)

              And maybe I'm just being trolled hard by someone who knows exactly these things that I'm pointing out in this comment but there are still people out there who genuinely believe what OriginalOwner professes to believe. The tragedy of it all, truly classical Greek tragedy and they knew they just had to laugh at the horror.

              Don't start murdering people OriginalOwner, as long as you manage to avoid that you'll be enormously far better than both your idols and your ideals and receive a friendly pat on the back from me.

              As for me you'll never win me over, because I know better by direct experience. This shit isn't history to some of us.

              --
              Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))