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posted by Fnord666 on Friday December 02 2016, @02:37PM   Printer-friendly
from the more-like-pantry-picks dept.

MIT's Tech newspaper reports on a growing list of MIT faculty who have signed a statement opposing a number of Donald Trump's cabinet appointments and "reaffirming their dedication to 'principles at the core of MIT's mission.'"

The statement denounces discrimination, promotes open communication, and asserts the need to respect the scientific method. Signatories include four out of the ten Nobel Prize winners currently part of the MIT faculty, as well as author Junot Diaz and Affordable Care Act architect Jonathan Gruber. [...]

About 25 percent of MIT faculty have now signed the statement. [The School of Humanities, Arts, and Social Sciences], which comprises 17 percent of MIT faculty, represents a disproportionately large percentage of the signatories at about 22 percent. The School of Engineering is underrepresented, with also about 22 percent of signatories, but comprising 37 percent of total faculty. These differences may be a result of the thus far uneven dissemination of the statement across departments.

The MIT statement joins a growing litany of open letters from scientists to the Trump administration, with over 2300 scientists -- including 22 Nobel Prize winners -- signing another statement asking for a "strong and open culture of science" and "adhering to high standards of scientific integrity and independence." A group of female scientists concerned about racism and sexism in science initially aimed for 500 signatures from women scientists, but their list now has grown to over 11,000 worldwide.

The actual MIT statement with list of signatories can be found here. At the time of this submission, it had grown by over 10% since the Tech report was written on Wednesday afternoon and now has over 500 signatures.

[Continues...]

The complete text of the statement reads:

The President-elect has appointed individuals to positions of power who have endorsed racism, misogyny and religious bigotry, and denied the widespread scientific consensus on climate change. Regardless of our political views, these endorsements violate principles at the core of MIT's mission. At this time, it is important to reaffirm the values we hold in common.

We, the undersigned faculty at MIT, thus affirm the following principles:

  • We unconditionally reject every form of bigotry, discrimination, hateful rhetoric, and hateful action, whether directed towards one's race, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, national origin, disability, citizenship, political views, socioeconomic status, veteran status, or immigration status.
  • We endorse MIT's values of open, respectful discourse and exchange of ideas from the widest variety of intellectual, religious, class, cultural, and political perspectives.
  • We uphold the principles of the scientific method, of fact- and reason-based objective inquiry. Science is not a special interest; it is not optional. Science is a foundational ingredient in how we as a society analyze, understand, and solve the most difficult challenges that we face.

For any member of our community who may feel fear or oppression, our doors are open and we are ready to help. We pledge to work with all members of the community – students, faculty, staff, postdoctoral researchers, and administrators – to defend these principles today and in the times ahead.

I imagine some reactions may be to dismiss this as yet another college appeal for "safe spaces" and "diversity," but from first-hand experience with the MIT community, I can say it's definitely distinct from the average "liberal arts school" environment. When they say "open, respectful discourse and exchange of ideas" from different perspectives, they generally mean it; I've personally seen debates there that would be instantly "shut down" elsewhere. I only wish they had reversed the order of the three bullet points and put science upfront, because that's what really distinguishes their message from many other groups.

More coverage on these letters expressing concern about science in the new administration in the Guardian and the Washington Post.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday December 02 2016, @02:56PM

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday December 02 2016, @02:56PM (#435952) Homepage Journal

    You're right, it doesn't. You don't take car-care advice from your doctor, do you?

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday December 02 2016, @03:21PM

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday December 02 2016, @03:21PM (#435964) Journal

    If the doctor says "You really ought not to piss in your gas tank and follow it up with a bag of sugar" then yes, yes I do. Because that is what this administration is doing to the US legislative, executive, and very soon judicial branches.

    This is a fallacy on your part. Again.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @03:27PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @03:27PM (#435972)

      The fallacies are yours!

      * This administration doesn't even exist yet; you cannot yet say that it is ruining things.

      * You are confusing your own understanding for your mythical doctor's understanding that it is bad to piss in the gas tank; you already know that it's bad to piss in your gas tank, rendering your doctor's advice irrelevant both to you and to the point in question.

      Fool.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @03:34PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @03:34PM (#435977)

        We also know it's stupid to publicly threaten to pull out of already agreed deals, imply you won't support your existing alliances, or to have a VP that thinks you can shock the gay out of people.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday December 02 2016, @04:08PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 02 2016, @04:08PM (#435996) Journal

          The US has historically discarded treaties when and as it chose to do so. Ask any of the Indian Nations. A treaty is worthless - less than worthless - we wipe our arses with them.

          Deals count less than treaties. You're talking about trade deals? Maybe you've missed the point of the election - Trump was elected BECAUSE he said the trade deals suck ass, and they need to go.

          As for the VP, and shocking the gay out of people - it worked for him!! He no longer wants to suck a dick.

          Stop your sniveling, FFS. We're America, we do whatever the hell we want, damn alliances, deals, and gays.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday December 02 2016, @03:34PM

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday December 02 2016, @03:34PM (#435978) Journal

        1) You are a special kind of stupid. Just because they aren't technically in office yet doesn't mean we don't know exactly what they're planning. These appointments are no accident; they're the Dominionists and corporatists setting up the system exactly as they want it. This has been at least 40 years in the making. Learn some fucking history.

        2) I personally am not dumb enough to piss in my own gas tank. Many people are, metaphorically, and they seem to be PROUD of it. And they brag about it. A lot. So when someone tells them "that's fucking dumb, don't do that" their "you're not a mechanic, piss off" response is as harmful as it is predictable.

        Fool.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @03:39PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @03:39PM (#435980)

          I'm astonished that you think you've provided a rebuttal. Why are you so bad at thinking?

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday December 02 2016, @03:51PM

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday December 02 2016, @03:51PM (#435987) Homepage Journal

          ou are a special kind of stupid. Just because they aren't technically in office yet doesn't mean we don't know exactly what they're planning.

          Yes, it means precisely that unless you can read minds. I mean, fuck, you're going by reports of what they've said by a media that outright and blatantly hates them. This is less than wise by any stretch of the word.

          Many people are, metaphorically, and they seem to be PROUD of it.

          And there we go demonizing the people who disagree with you. Standard tactic from the regressive left. Do please call me a racist/misogynist/something-phobe next. I mean that is the only approved response in your official playbook.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @04:07PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @04:07PM (#435995)

            For someone who didn't vote for trump you sure get upset when people criticize him. Maybe you're just upset that things look like more of the status quo? Except with a real chance of regressive policies which will roll back civil rights...

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday December 02 2016, @04:21PM

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday December 02 2016, @04:21PM (#436007) Homepage Journal

              Oh I'm not upset. I'm quite enjoying this discussion. And if it looks like I'm defending Trump simply because I dislike the bullshit that comes out of the regressive left, that's probably because you're a member and can't conceive of anyone thinking differently than you.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @06:07PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @06:07PM (#436074)

                Then hop out of the conversation, you're just trolling for lulz. You want people to ignore statements of reality, Trump's own words, his cabinet choices, their opinion/stances on policy. Yes the media lies, on both sides, and you need to stop using that as some magic catch-all for your arguments. The media bias isn't even a factor in this current discussion.

          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @06:03PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @06:03PM (#436073)

            Yes, it means precisely that unless you can read minds. I mean, fuck, you're going by reports of what they've said by a media that outright and blatantly hates them. This is less than wise by any stretch of the word.

            If all reporting on these people is untrustworthy why would you trust the reporting on what they actually do?

            Once you start in with the lügenpresse, it is turtles all the way down.

            The things they've said and done previously aren't made up. Its verifiable from multiple sources going back years, including video. Sometimes from their own websites because they don't think there is anything wrong with their positions.

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday December 02 2016, @07:20PM

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday December 02 2016, @07:20PM (#436117) Journal

            Believe me, Uzzard, when I call you "a special kind of stupid," this is not an insult so much as a fair description backed up by a couple years' observation. Stick to coding; you're useless at everything else.

            You're deflecting here, thinking your tone-policing bullshit is going to shut me down--and the projection, Jesus fuck, you don't seem to get that the "regressives" as you call them are a direct, mirror-image response to what your kind has been doing for decades. Fortunately for you, they suck at it, possibly because most of them at least have good intentions instead of being sociopathic drones.

            I am repeating nothing from the media about these people in his cabinet. I have researched them. They are a motley crew of Theonomists, kleptocrats, white supremacists, "race realists," and wealthy elite.

            For a guy who didn't vote for Trump or any of his cabinet you are weirdly quick to rush to their defense when someone dares to point out the truth about them.

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
            • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @08:29PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @08:29PM (#436189)

              For a guy who didn't vote for Trump or any of his cabinet you are weirdly quick to rush to their defense when someone dares to point out the truth about them.

              That guy is deeply wedded to his pet theory that Trump will be unable to accomplish anything because "the establishment" abhors him. I've told him multiple times that regardless of how effective Trump is personally, he will end up surrounded by savvy political operators with the worsts intentions, exactly like Manafort. And being so firmly connected to the establishment they will be able to achieve all kinds of destructive goals.

              Now that it is exactly what is happening. Buzzer so poorly understands human nature and politics that when easily predicted reality starts to slap him in the face, he's got nothing left but baldfaced denial.

              • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday December 02 2016, @08:52PM

                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday December 02 2016, @08:52PM (#436204) Journal

                I really want to hope that's true, tat he's more stupid than evil, but Hanlon's Razor is starting to lose its edge. Stupidity of this kind becomes a sort of secondhand malice.

                And that's assuming that he isn't actually the complete trash-fire of a human being I suspect very heavily he is. As they say, when someone shows you what they are, BELIEVE THEM THE FIRST TIME.

                --
                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @03:52PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @03:52PM (#435990)

          -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
          Hash: SHA256

          You got your car analogy all wrong. Trump's supporters are the gas tank, and Trump is the one doing all the pissing. Let's hope they can catch every drop of that sweet sweet trickle down. ~ Anonymous 0x9932FE2729B1D963
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        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @04:03PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @04:03PM (#435994)

          It's astonishing that you think you've provided a rebuttal. Why are you so terrible at thinking?

        • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Friday December 02 2016, @04:12PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 02 2016, @04:12PM (#435999) Journal

          At least 40 years in the making - yeah, probably so. On the other side of the street, we have a vast left wing conspiracy that's been in the making for at least 100 years.

          Looks like the right wing are better conspirators than the left wing?

          • (Score: 2) by DECbot on Friday December 02 2016, @05:14PM

            by DECbot (832) on Friday December 02 2016, @05:14PM (#436038) Journal

            Democrat conspiracy, Republican conspiracy, humbug!
             

            This is a long running Whig conspiracy to regain the House.

            --
            cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @06:34PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @06:34PM (#436094)

              This is a long running Whig conspiracy to regain the House.

              Lies! This is all lies! Trump is not a Whig! That is his own hair!! It just looks like an extinct conservative political party.

          • (Score: 2, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Friday December 02 2016, @09:19PM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 02 2016, @09:19PM (#436223) Journal

            Some liberal minded person believes that plain facts are properly moderated "flamebait". So - tell me - which of the American parties embraces the idea of abortion, and ridding themselves of "human weeds"? Marge Sanger was a liberal, after all, a feminist, and a racist. Remember that, children!!

        • (Score: 2) by turgid on Friday December 02 2016, @07:28PM

          by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 02 2016, @07:28PM (#436130) Journal

          I'm afraid that's the way the world is going. It's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. Hopefully it won't take the stupid too long to learn their hard lesson.

          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday December 02 2016, @07:33PM

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday December 02 2016, @07:33PM (#436135) Journal

            I gave up on them after this election. I don't care whether they learn it or not, they can all go to hell. Right now my concern is getting the ever-merciful fuck out of Dodge before that "lesson" kills me in the backsplash.

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @07:51PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @07:51PM (#436159)

              Have a nice trip, and don't let the screen door hit you in the ass on the way out.

              • (Score: 1, Redundant) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday December 02 2016, @08:07PM

                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday December 02 2016, @08:07PM (#436172) Journal

                Laugh while you can, idiot. You and your kind have condemned this nation to a Hell the likes of which you cannot possibly imagine.

                --
                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @09:39PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @09:39PM (#436238)

                  In Indiana, did Trump make United Technologies/Carrier "pay a damn tax" the way he promised?

                  Nope. The deal he made keeps FEWER THAN HALF of those jobs in the USA and to do that Trump gave Carrier a tax BREAK (with any other concessions to be revealed in the course of time).

                  Trump, at best, is a bag of hot air.

                  The only bright spot left is that the Blue minority in the Senate can use the auto-filibuster to make sure that nothing clears the Congress (the way that the Reds in Congress have been doing for 8 years to Obama's Neoliberal proposals).

                  It is indeed in the Executive Branch that the Trum Administration will do lots of damage.
                  Trump will cancel Obama's (already timid) executive orders on Day 1.
                  The 3 Reactionaries that Trump has lined up for the FCC will kill Net Neutrality on Day 1 as well as set-top box rule reforms.
                  The Interior Department will start rubberstamping oil lease approvals (more fracking) at a furious rate.
                  OSHA will be completely neutered and workplace safety will plummet even farther.
                  Yada, yada, yada.

                  Good luck, USA. You're gonna need it.

                  -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 03 2016, @07:48AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 03 2016, @07:48AM (#436450)

          Trump has no chance to win the primary.
          Trump has no chance to win the election.
          Trump is going to lose to Hillary in a landslide.
          Trump is going to cause a stock market crash when he wins.

          Don't you arrogant fucking losers ever get tired of being wrong? Ever?

          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday December 03 2016, @08:32PM

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday December 03 2016, @08:32PM (#436628) Journal

            Hey, dumbfuck: I was one of the people who was telling others not to get complacent. Trump's win is a bad idea whose time has come, much like, and for much the same reasons as, the Third Reich.

            And if you think this win is a good thing for you and yours...well, give it a couple of years. If you're somehow still alive you'll envy the dead.

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Friday December 02 2016, @06:16PM

        by aristarchus (2645) on Friday December 02 2016, @06:16PM (#436080) Journal

        OK, I have recently warned people about bad car analogies, but this one has just turned around and bit the Trumpheteers in the behind. Yes, we already know peeing into your gas tank was not good, no mechanic needed to tell us that, or even a doctor. But what trump is doing is the equivalent, so we do not need MIT boffins to tell us it is bad, very bad. Everyone knows you only pee into diesel vehicles, and not VWs! Everyone knows the Trump cabinet will be full of deplorables. Alex Jones for Secretary of Education! Yeeeee-haaa!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 03 2016, @07:08AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 03 2016, @07:08AM (#436436)

          You fool. VW's are diesels!!

          • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday December 03 2016, @07:28AM

            by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday December 03 2016, @07:28AM (#436440) Journal

            You even more phool! VW was supposed to have the "Clean Diesel" tech that allowed them to meet emission regs. They lied. Part of what made people suspicious was that that VW did not use the "Blue" tech that other manufacturers were using, which involved injecting urea (this is where the "piss" comes in, so to speak), to react with the nitrogen compounds that diesels produce. So no, you should not pee into a VW diesel, but you can into your BMW or Mercedes. It is a little tank to the side of the engine compartment, labeled "give a piss about the environment". I hope I have remedied your invincible ignorance.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by schad on Friday December 02 2016, @04:08PM

      by schad (2398) on Friday December 02 2016, @04:08PM (#435997)

      If the doctor says "You really ought not to piss in your gas tank and follow it up with a bag of sugar" then yes, yes I do.

      You're begging the question. Try it with advice you don't already know to be good. What if your doctor told you to switch your car's motor oil to Motul 8100 X-CESS 5w40 from the brand (and viscosity!) your manufacturer recommends? And that doing so would get you 10% more power and fuel economy, not to mention smoother performance and increased engine life? Would you go out and do it? I mean, those are pretty big advantages. And if your highly-educated and trained doctor recommends it, it must be a good idea, right?

      Because that is what this administration is doing to the US legislative, executive, and very soon judicial branches.

      Only the executive branch. The president doesn't appoint people to Congress; we voters are responsible for that shit show. You can't even claim gerrymandering. Congressional districts are drawn up by the states: usually the state legislatures, though in some cases by the judiciary or independent panels, but in no case by the federal government. And while the president does appoint people to the judicial branch, they must be confirmed by the Senate. If our senators aren't doing the advice-and-consent thing, it is, again, our fault as voters for not holding them responsible.

      If you think the executive generally and the president specifically has too much power, I absolutely and completely agree with you. Unfortunately, empowerment of the executive branch is something that's been going on at least since Jackson. And Congress's abrogation of its Constitutional responsibilities has been going on at least since FDR. So while Republicans will try to tell you that this is a new thing (OBAMA RULED BY EXECUTIVE ORDER) and Democrats will try to tell you that this is an almost-as-new thing (BUSH LIED) the reality is that both parties have been complicit in making the executive branch increasingly authoritarian. And now, thanks to the shortsightedness of those idiots, Donald J. Trump, reality TV star, can start a global thermonuclear war on his own authority.

      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday December 02 2016, @07:16PM

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday December 02 2016, @07:16PM (#436115) Journal

        Regarding the first point, my response would be "Now that sounds good. I'm going to go look up peoples' experiences with this stuff and see a) if they say the same things and b) if something like the model or weight of my car an affect this."

        Second point...yeah the executive is way too powerful, but I don't think the legislature is as open to and amenable to the voting public and its wishes as you think. It's too complex for most people to understand, hence low midterm turnouts, and as it is, the entire thing's turned into an old-boys' club with a cycle of lobbying and legislation. The judicial branch...this may be the scariest part, since we have a good idea of what kind of judges a Dominionist would appoint.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday December 02 2016, @05:57PM

      by Gaaark (41) on Friday December 02 2016, @05:57PM (#436070) Journal

      I pinched a disk in my back quite a few years back.
      My doctor told me to lay in bed on my back with a heating pad under me.

      The physiotherapist sighed when i told her this: i should have done the opposite. Lay on my stomach with ice packs on my back.
      If that first doctor told me not to piss in my gas tank, i'd go to a mechanic for a second opinion.

      Some people are smart, some are stupid.
      A bunch of nobel prize winners (in categories as stupid as the peace prize) say that GMO's are safe: MIT "humanities" people say that Trump is doing wrong. Listen to them with the same care you would listen to your cat telling you about physics.

      https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=16/07/04/1249257 [soylentnews.org]

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @07:01PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @07:01PM (#436105)

        I pinched a disk

        Seems like it was a disagreement over the diagnosis. The doctor who suggested heat believed it was a muscle issue instead of the disk and the physiotherapist believed that it was a disk issue and suggested ice to relieve the inflammation. Depending on the description of the pain (which is sometimes subjective) and the tests done (MRI is the only way to be sure) the correct diagnosis may be hard to arrive at.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @03:56PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @03:56PM (#435991)

    I realize that that the professors at Devry, or wherever Buzzard went to college don't necessarily have expertise in the many areas where the Trump administration will make policy and enforce, or not enforce, existing laws.

    But it's different with professors at a top university such as MIT.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday December 02 2016, @04:00PM

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday December 02 2016, @04:00PM (#435992) Homepage Journal

      Yes, it absolutely is. They're so highly specialized that they have virtually no expertise outside their chosen field. Being a rocket surgeon does not qualify you to speak on anything but rocket surgery.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @04:16PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @04:16PM (#436002)

        Only problem with your theory is statistics. If we're going to listen to anyone I'll put my money on hundreds of top level professors.

        By your reasoning what in the HELL is trump doing in the whitehouse? He is less qualified than any president in history, but like others have said that seems to be a point of pride for his supporters. His cabinet choices are a very clear indication of the path they will take, and its this: more corporate welfare, congrats Goldman Sachs, and repressive legislation to undo civil rights.

        If you can't see that then you are the one who nerds rocket surgery...

        • (Score: 1, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday December 02 2016, @04:24PM

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday December 02 2016, @04:24PM (#436009) Homepage Journal

          No, Obama is less qualified than any President in history. Trump has held real jobs. The rest of your argument essentially boils down to "they agree with me so their opinions are wise".

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @05:31PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @05:31PM (#436052)

            Trump has no experience in government and zero concept of what diplomacy is all about. The only thing going for him is the sheer military and economic power of the US, so his bully tactics might actually get results. If we were a smaller country he'd just be ignored and the country would become the butt of political jokes like North Korea.

            My argument is that I'll take the opinion of 500 of our top scientists over ... wait, over nothing. Trump and his cabinet have been pretty clear about what they will do, this isn't some debate about opinions. You want us to NOT listen to dire warnings from our top minds? You want us to wait and see if every horrible thing Trump said was just hot air? It becomes ever increasingly clear that you and your fellows are ruled by hatred and fear, not logic and critical thinking.

            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @05:33PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @05:33PM (#436054)

              My prediction is Trump's presidency will go much like Obama's, the major promises will fall through and we'll just experience 4-8 years of increased surveillance and corporate welfare.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @07:33PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @07:33PM (#436136)

            While Neoliberal do-nothing-useful Obama is among the worst ever, your memory is too short.
            I remember Gerald Ford and his "brilliant" plan to deal with inflation: Buttons [google.com]

            Reagan's plan to build a 600-ship Navy while building a new generation of nuclear-tipped missiles and simultaneously building a "new" generation of strategic bombers (which the U-2 shootdown of 1960 showed were already out of date) was also pretty stupid.
            (Militarism has an extremely low multiplier effect and borrowing to accomplish that is simply moronic.)

            Clinton's gutting of Glass-Steagall set up the 2nd giant crash of the USAian economy in less than a century.

            Nixon said "If the president does it, it's not illegal".

            Barry O'Bummer is pretty awful, but he's got lots of competition for "worst".

            -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

          • (Score: 4, Informative) by edIII on Friday December 02 2016, @10:12PM

            by edIII (791) on Friday December 02 2016, @10:12PM (#436258)

            Trump has not held a real job, unless you count getting $14 million from his daddy, working for daddy's companies, and then going bankrupt as a career. He has zero experience working for anyone else other than himself or daddy, and clearly does not play well with others. You have to be joking to compare the two men. Trump couldn't touch Obama, on Obama's worst day.

            Obama was not the least qualified president in history, and was actually a Constitutional scholar. His experience in politics has clearly demonstrated that he has political skills, and Hillary was absolutely more qualified than Obama even. Stop making Obama look like an inexperienced idiot, because that is just fucking moronic dude. Nobody believes that, except the people that want to believe it due to emotional motivations. Those arguments went out the window in his two terms of office.

            Stick to most salient point regarding Obama; He fucking betrayed us. That's why he is worse than Bush, and why he will still be worse than Trump. Obama fucking knew better, and could have been better.

            Trump is just an ignorant, bombastic piece of shit, and is easily the least experienced person to ever hold such a high office. How does being an overbearing asshole that treats his workers like shit, goes bankrupt, and refuses to pay on contracts at his whim, make him qualified? I don't expect anything better out of him, than I did Obama (after he started fucking us over). The ONLY reason why I had any hope for Hillary was because the Democratic Party underwent a far more civil reorganization with new progressive policies. That, and the rest of you act as one hell of a check and balance against her. All we have to do is look the other way, stop supporting her, and you would have had her killed within days. At least according to how much hate and vitriol came from the other side. Trump may have been likened to Hitler (which is accurate), but Hillary achieved actual anti-Christ status :)

            Stop saying stupid shit like that, and call out Obama from what he actually is. A very smart and experienced con man that ran on populism, albeit a more positive form of it. Once he was done, he abandoned us. Trump is already doing the same, except I don't believe he has the maturity and discipline to deal with other world leaders like Obama did. Being the arrogant strong man isn't all that useful in international diplomacy.

            Fuck, even Reagan at his most senile was better than Trump on his best day. He was an actual governor you know, not some reality TV trainwreck....

            --
            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @10:59PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @10:59PM (#436296)

              That being the case, you'd think that he'd heard of this:

              No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

              So then, how is it that Obama has had USA military personnel use drone-borne munitions to whack 8 USA citizens? [google.com]

              Notice also that the Bill of Rights does NOT say "No USA citizen" nor "No resident of USA".
              What it says is "NO PERSON".

              I'd say that knowing better, then doing evil anyway, puts Obama well into the negative column.

              -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

              • (Score: 2) by edIII on Friday December 02 2016, @11:22PM

                by edIII (791) on Friday December 02 2016, @11:22PM (#436307)

                Did you think I would disagree with you or something? I was talking about experience.

                Let me put to you in quasi D&D terms.

                Obama: INT 19 WIS 10 CHA 25 STR 3 Alignment: Lawful Evil. Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, and Street Wise.
                XP 343,035,223

                Trump: INT 4 WIS 3 CHA 15 STR 20 Alignment: Mentally Challenged Chaotic Evil. Skills: Oh So many Skills, I've Got the Best SKILLS
                XP: 987

                --
                Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @11:57PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @11:57PM (#436322)

                  :D

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 03 2016, @07:38PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 03 2016, @07:38PM (#436600)

                  In D&D terms, most people would have stats between 8 and 13, while anything diverging would be exceptional. A STR of 20 would make someone a professional bodybuilder, while 4INT is lower than the typical ape (who has 6). Anything above 20 is superhuman and rarely available even to lv20 characters who can strangle dragons with their bare firsts.

                  Turn in your nerd card right now.

                  • (Score: 2) by edIII on Sunday December 04 2016, @12:45AM

                    by edIII (791) on Sunday December 04 2016, @12:45AM (#436713)

                    Absolutely not!

                    I counter with my lvl42 Grammar Nazi and cast Your-Reading-Comprehension-Sucks And Yo-Momma-Dresses-You-Funny.

                    Did say quasi-D&D terms ;)

                    --
                    Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
            • (Score: 2) by jasassin on Sunday December 04 2016, @07:53AM

              by jasassin (3566) <jasassin@gmail.com> on Sunday December 04 2016, @07:53AM (#436817) Homepage Journal

              Obama was not the least qualified president in history, and was actually a Constitutional scholar.

              If forcing people to buy insurance, (especially in states that did not accept subsidies making the cost of the shittiest plan available over $300 dollars a month) is constitutional what a magnificent scholar. What a fucking genius.

              --
              jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0xE6462C68A9A3DB5A
        • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday December 03 2016, @12:42AM

          by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday December 03 2016, @12:42AM (#436342) Homepage

          Sidestepping the issue of whether or not the MIT staff are qualified, another issue is that they're just another bunch of obnoxious academics speaking from their ivory tower and out of touch with commoners.

          Anyway, just because somebody's good at being an academic doesn't mean they're any good at not only politics but also social skills and bathing. Just wait until a Black and/or Muslim student goes on another rampage on their campus, or sets up tents and shits all over the sidewalks by their houses, and their minds will change.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Friday December 02 2016, @04:36PM

        by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Friday December 02 2016, @04:36PM (#436019) Journal

        Being a rocket surgeon does not qualify you to speak on anything but rocket surgery.

        If you are a scientist of some sort, I assume it does qualify you at least somewhat to speak on the scientific method, which is actually one of the things coming up repeatedly in these statements. We can certainly debate whether these folks have any authority beyond anyone else to speak about issues of bigotry or free speech or whatever... but surely scientists have the right (and at least some qualification) to express concern about the support of general scientific methodologies?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @04:58PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @04:58PM (#436030)

        Doctors know nothing about politics, so why do we let them vote? I propose that only politicians should be able to vote.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @05:12PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @05:12PM (#436036)

          Now you're starting to get it.

          Democratic voting is a terrible way to organize society; there is little correlation between voting and competence; the weight of one's vote is virtually detached from the results of one's previous votes.

          In contrast, the free market allows society to evolve under the direction of those who devise and implement objectively sustainable patterns of existence based as much as possible on each individual's voluntary choice to participate.

          • (Score: 1) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Friday December 02 2016, @05:51PM

            by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Friday December 02 2016, @05:51PM (#436067)

            Hate to burst your bubble, but the "Free market" requires strong government intervention to even work.

            For example, the price system relies on money. Cyptocurrency *may* be possible without government intervention, but has scaling problems.

            Contract enforcement relies on the rule of law: something the government typically provides.

            The voluntary exchange of goods relies on infrastructure such as roads. Government provides that as well. Sometimes eminent domain is required to prevent somebody from blocking a road by buying up land.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @06:15PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @06:15PM (#436079)

              Money is just a commodity; it's existence is a manifestation of contract fulfillment.

              Contract enforcement is just a service, and like any other service, it can be implemented as part of the free market; co-evolution of symbiotic systems is a thing.

              The fact that a government has provided a service (such as building roads) does not imply that only a government can provide that service, or even that only a government can provide that service best.

              Try again.

              • (Score: 1) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Friday December 02 2016, @07:39PM

                by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Friday December 02 2016, @07:39PM (#436144)

                Governments also have a monopoly on the use of force.

                In the absence of government, your contract may be ignored by an armed thug.

                There is also the issue that resources are collectively owned. Why are you allowed to claim full ownership merely for making improvements?

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @10:46PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @10:46PM (#436288)

                  No. In the absence of contract-enforcement, your contract may be ignored by an armed thug; there is no requirement that a government handle contract-enforcement.

                  Ownership is a property of social interaction that is hashed out through various iterations of contract negotiation and enforcement.

                  Come on, man! Do a little independent thinking for once in your life!

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @05:44PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 02 2016, @05:44PM (#436060)

        > They're so highly specialized that they have virtually no expertise outside their chosen field.

        Said by the #1 over-confident ignoramus outside of his specialty on this site.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 03 2016, @06:03AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 03 2016, @06:03AM (#436418)

          There is some stiff competition for that title, but Buz is in the running.

  • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Friday December 02 2016, @07:27PM

    by Zz9zZ (1348) on Friday December 02 2016, @07:27PM (#436129)

    But we should take advice on who to trust from you?

    --
    ~Tilting at windmills~
  • (Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Friday December 02 2016, @08:24PM

    by LoRdTAW (3755) on Friday December 02 2016, @08:24PM (#436187) Journal

    What if your doctor is also a amateur hot roder or racer? People aren't as one dimensional as you are.