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This article from MedicalXpress reports on a different way of looking at ADHD:
Hyperactivity seems to be the result of not being able to focus one's attention rather than the other way around. This was proposed in an article in PLOS ONE, written by researchers at Radboud university medical center and Radboud University. It seems to suggest that more attention should be given to the AD than to the HD component.
ADHD is a combination of having difficulties with focusing one's attention (attention deficit, AD) and overly active, impulsive behaviour (hyperactivity disorder, HD). Interestingly enough, many people often struggle with a combination of both characteristics. Very often they are both easily distracted and impulsive, in other words, both AD and HD. "Which leads to the question of whether this involves a correlation, a coincidental combination, or perhaps a causal relation," states computer scientist Tom Heskes.
[...] "This causal relation was also suggested in early psychiatric literature," says psychiatrist Jan Buitelaar, "but as far as we know there was never any hard evidence supporting this claim. It's interesting to see that this mathematical approach enables us to talk with more certainty about a causal relation. And it would be even more interesting, for example, to study whether we can find a more neurological basis for that relation.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @04:17PM
Are ADHD affected people able to focus on stuff they find interesting e.g. play a video game?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fishybell on Sunday December 04 2016, @04:57PM
A thousand years ago people who couldn't cut it in society died. They starved because they didn't have a job, they died from now-curable diseases, etc.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @05:15PM
...and now they do medical research. Seriously though, the use of "causal" is another one of those hints the paper won't be very useful. Real scientists do not care about causality.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Francis on Sunday December 04 2016, @05:27PM
Real scientists primarily care about causation. A large part of understanding the mechanics of something are understanding the cause and the effects of it.
If you don't know what causes the effect, your ability to understand it in any sort of deep way is significantly reduced. Knowing that the hyperactivity comes from the lack of control over focus is hugely important in terms of managing the behaviors associated with ADHD. And it probably also helps explain why it is that hyperactivity is frequently absent from adults with ADHD even in cases where that same adult had been hyperactive as a child.
The summary is off though, it's ADHD whether or not the person is hyperactive.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @05:43PM
I don't think it is very limited at all. How about PV = nRT, or F = m1*m2/r^2. Ceterus peribus, does temperature "cause" pressure or vice versa? Does force "cause" mass?
Events are "explained" when they follow a law, not because of some structural equation model or experiment with rejected null hypothesis. I think people thought I was kidding with my earlier post. I am not. Once you start seeing "causal this" and "causal that" you can be pretty sure the paper is not very valuable. Causality is not very important at all, but you can waste insane amounts of time and money generating conflicting evidence while chasing after that red herring, which is why academia loves it.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Francis on Sunday December 04 2016, @07:10PM
In other words, you don't actually understand what those equations mean and are trying to bluff your way through it. Your second equation there is wrong. You're missing G as well as the units not coming out. Gravity is F=G(M1)(M2)/(r^2). Without that G, the units don't come out right.
As for causation, you have no way of knowing which variables are independent and which ones are dependent if you haven't determined the causality. Trying to make a dependent variable independent is a huge waste of time roughly equivalent to creating epicycles rather than acknowledging the orbits of the planets as being elipses.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @07:35PM
The value of G depends on the units, it is usual to use units so that G=1. The dependent/independent variable stuff you mention is just begging the question. I dont care unless I am choosing which goes on which axis of a scatter plot, etc. If you care so much to design your research around such considerations, you are doing it wrong.
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Monday December 05 2016, @07:40AM
Once you start seeing "causal this" and "causal that" you can be pretty sure the paper is not very valuable. Causality is not very important at all
Except in medicine (including psychiatry), where knowing the cause of a disease or disorder is typically a crucial aspect of knowing exactly what is going wrong and how (or if) to treat it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @11:05AM
I mentioned medical research ("waste insane amounts of time and money generating conflicting evidence"). http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002165 [plos.org]
So no, I don't agree they are doing things right. I had to quit because interacting with that sham was so depressing and stressful.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by aristarchus on Sunday December 04 2016, @11:55PM
Real scientists primarily care about causation. A large part of understanding the mechanics of something are understanding the cause and the effects of it.
Real scientists in the nineteenth century, that is. Repeat after all of us, Francis: "Correlation does not imply causation." Mechanics is engineering, or stipulative; we intend certain effects, and use whatever "laws of nature" we think we have to cause them. But science has the problem that we are not trying to produce the effect, it already presents itself. We try to explain a causal mechanism, but as David Hume pointed out, causation is not something you can observe, we only have something happening after something else happens. Yes, if we see the same thing following the same action repeatedly, we might suspect there is a causal relation, but we can never actually know. What we have is a strong correlation of two events, and that is as far as we can reasonably go.
With medicine, however, things are worse, or better, depending on how you look at it. Physicians are not looking for causes, they are looking for therapy, and they are only interested in causes to the degree that these correlations might result in treatment. If a treatment works, investigating why is of no interest to doctors! So, for example, the prescribing of ritalin for ADHD has effects, counter-intuitively, since giving a stimulant to someone already hyper-active would seem to violate all common sense causality. But it works. Why? Well, ADHD patients, as you are fond of telling me, have "something wrong with their brains". What? Well, we don't really know. Sorting out the relation between the AD and the HD might help in this regard, as concerns medicine. But a straightforward "cause"? Correlations, strong, repeatable correlations. That is enough. So the GP is correct, if a little too flippant, in saying scientists "don't care" about causes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @05:29PM
In many instances there is NO practical experiment you can do to determine causation. This is especially so with psychology.
So you have to do what you can. And many important breakthroughs have been discovered this way.
What you don't do is just give up.
It must be nice to live in your black and white perfect world where everything just works out for you, you are all knowing and in control of everything...
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Sunday December 04 2016, @05:55PM
Not even a thousand years ago problem.
My guess is the behavior is hugely advantageous for shepherds, mildly advantageous for hunters and craftsmen (flint knappers, weavers, smiths), probably doesn't matter for gatherers, and when chillin around the prehistoric campfire its a mild disadvantage depending how annoying they are and how tolerant the tribe is (think of the annoying kid interrupting and correcting the oral tradition elders all the time), balancing out mostly. I suspect ADHD was more prevalent 20 centuries ago. How you'd diagnose that in the general population with what little evidence we have is a mystery.
I'd theorize that a small fraction of the ancient "holy cow are barbarians stupid and useless" commentary is whining about them having ADHD like symptoms that were not bred out like would happen in city life or royalty life. Perhaps entire Celtic tribes that Caesar wiped out had severe ADHD, who knows.
The real genetic funnel question is how they'd survive the much more recent pre-OSHA early industrial factory floor and the current Prussian education system designed to fill it (and the infantry ranks), how did any euros with ADHD genetic background survive that era?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @06:36PM
think of the annoying kid interrupting and correcting the oral tradition elders all the time
They'd probably be doing something else instead of listening to stuff around the campfire. Which might increase the odds of detecting enemy and other attacks.
Being easily distracted from flint knapping by what might be lions/tigers in the grass was probably a feature when work wasn't quite as urgent. You have more time to learn the details of flint napping when both teacher and student are alive. It is a problem if you can't keep still and quiet to avoid being discovered and killed. But lots of non-ADHD people make uncontrollable noises when scared too.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @05:25PM
That is an interesting question and as someone who knows about this intimately because I have it (for real and not just a pharma baby - I was not diagnosed until I was 40) I think I can answer that question.
ADHD does not come with just disadvantages. It has a bunch of advantages as well including ones that could have helped out during evolution.
People with ADHD tend to be more creative and exploratory. They will investigate something for the sake of it where others would let caution get the better of them. They will go down "rabbit holes" that others would find stupid. They can maintain a laser-like focus for extreme periods of time if interested in something.
The classic mad genius scientist you see in movies...classic ADD.
Obviously these can also be bad given a certain context and not everyone with it has the positives - there are people with none of the above too.
It also comes with a bunch of bad stuff: motivation for things their overactive minds find boring (which is a LOT), impulsiveness, pathological boredom, not fitting in, having co-morbid mental health issues, not sticking with things, changing their minds a lot, etc, etc.
To answer your question about video games: Yes they can, but they can also play it 14+ hours a day to the exclusion of everything else because they are seeking the dopamine bump their brains lack. They will do this when they should be doing something very important. (speaking from experience)
Standard disclaimer: There is no one trait of ADHD that you cannot see in a number of "normal" people. It is a matter of degrees and clusters which indicate an underlying problem. Unfortunately this also makes armchair experts trot out (I am sure we will see it on this board soon) the standard cliches about it not being a real problem etc etc.
Also its hereditary so it is strongly genetically linked and this would SUGGEST part of the evolutionary process and thus there for a reason.
I was going to go further into my personal case as an example...but I have meds now and thus can stop this before writing an entire thesis.
SIDE NOTE: The "H" in ADHD should never have been there (it was not for a long time). 50% of people with ADD don't have the H including me. Why would a disease have a symptom in the name that only half of people have?!
I have read the answer is because the APA don't like to admit when they are wrong...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @06:19PM
Well, a lot of founders of now-huge Silicon Valley outfits seem to have more than a whiff of ADHD.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @06:32PM
The startup environment would be the perfect place for someone like that...until it got boring.
(Score: 2) by t-3 on Sunday December 04 2016, @06:31PM
Several years ago I heard a doctor/scientist on NPR I think, explaining how ADD/ADHD were immensely positive traits for early humans and almost certainly predate humanity (IIRC, there was research on chimps I think showing the leaders and best hunters were predominantly ADD types). For hunting, defending against predation, and avoiding dangerous situations, the short attention span makes one more aware and less likely to stumble into anything blind. The "hyper-focus" is also valuable when shit does hit the fan, because of less possibility of distraction leading to an fatal error.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @09:08PM
I have heard that too. Unfortunately one cannot make it a statement of fact as there is no experimental data to prove this.
Although if it is genetic and prevalent in human (and chimp) society then it is probably the case.
There are potentially other mental "illnesses" that follow this pattern also such as sociopaths/psychopaths.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @10:42PM
That is just BS. Speculation at best.
A major problem with ADHD is that you CAN'T CONTROL your focus. So people are saying that ADHD gives you the ability to at an instant shift your focus like a laser onto some other thing that needs attention. No, that's not how it works. You can't control what gets your focus, and you might not be able that tear yourself away from what you are doing even though you know you should. Like, you know, firing off that last text message while you are driving, so you don't see the road turn and you crash your car. Or in caveman times, not watching where you are walking and instead looking at that cool eagle in the tree so you slip off the mountainside. Or not fetching the water because you decided to pick mushrooms instead, and you forgot your bucket and knife and lost them, AGAIN!
I will say it CAN help with creativity because a large part of that is letting your mind wander where it may. Good luck acting on those thoughts in a timely manner, though.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday December 04 2016, @09:57PM
ADD is bullshit parents use to justify their kids' bad behavior.
Yes, some kids are more restless than others. Yes, some people think faster than others. Yes, some peoples' minds gravitate to different thought processes more than others.
Frankly it's fucking amazing that people are wearing their victimhood on their sleeve like a badge of honor.
In other news, "restless leg syndrome" has been renamed to "get some fucking exercise."
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday December 04 2016, @10:22PM
Shaddup or I won't share my Adderall with you.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @10:27PM
They say my kid has it, but I know it's just a trendy misdiagnosis. I just beat him until he decides to behave.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @11:11PM
I am so glad you were the one to say it.
When I wrote the above I was hoping that the person to say it would so obviously a complete cunt and lo and behold enter the biggest troll cunt on this forum: Ethanol-Fueled.
So thank you, so very much you so obviously trolling alcoholic nutjob who thinks that by wearing his alcoholism on his sleeve it will protect himself from it.
PS: I was expelled from kindergaten as a child in the late 70's when that was not a thing...
PSS: I also whacked my dad in the head with a heavy 1970's jug chord while he was sleeping...
PSS: Those are not the only stories I have...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @01:27AM
But if you had the balls to do someone who will fight back against you like that you wouldn't be bragging about your temper tantrums on the internet
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @01:35AM
I was not bragging. I was talking about how some kids are at the extreme end and his point was stupid. (which it was supposed to be because he is a professional troll)
You mistake it for bragging since that is what you would do, I understand that.
Don't touch me with your shit stick though...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @10:56PM
Just because you don't consider yourself to have the "HD" component doesn't mean ADHD doesn't belong together with ADD.
The origin of these psychiatric disorders is not that precisely known that we can get too picky about subdividing the diagnosis. That is also why they got rid of the Asperger's diagnosis and just folded it into Autism Spectrum Disorder. The symptom severity for these brain disabilities can vary quite a bit from person to person. I am glad that your impulsivity is not so strong so you can consider yourself free of hyperactivity.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 04 2016, @11:05PM
"Just because you don't consider yourself to have the "HD" component doesn't mean ADHD doesn't belong together with ADD."
That is not what I was saying at all but thanks for going off half cocked.
Sometimes I need a reminder of the quality of internet forums...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @01:22AM
I re-read your original post with your admonition in mind.
I still came away with the most straightforward interpretation of your final paragraph in the original as being the one I first had.
Sometimes it's not the other guy going off "half cocked" (what trollish bullshit), but you not being quite the writer you think you are.
With lengthy posts, it pays to reread and revise them before sending.
And take the chip off your shoulder.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @01:44AM
I reread your post and see the chip is not on my shoulder. I in no way was trying to exclude or denigrate anyone who has the condition - just pointing out the ridiculous naming.
I reread your most recent post and by reading between the lines I see:
"I wont accept I am wrong"
ADD and ADHD are not two diseases. One is the "old" name and the other is the new, official term as per the APA. There are three "sub-types" although it is debatable how useful these solely symptom-based classifications are - case in point the article above!
Some people still use ADD due to the leftover terminology but they are not officially correct to do so.
And again: diseases very very rarely are named after a symptom that only occurs 1/2 the time. And then only when someone makes a mistake. In this case they call it ADHD and then classify one of the major sub groups as not having the H.
If you cannot understand why this is ridiculous then...well it matters not as I am sort of done with this conversation.
The correct way to deal with it would have been to call it ADD and then specify the sub types as they are.
But feel free to be angry and upset at me for pointing this out. You have committed to it now so you must see it to the end no matter what.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 05 2016, @04:21AM
I don't know why you are getting so worked up over the name (ADD vs. ADHD).
That's all it is: a name. The only thing that matters is the diagnosis and treatment.
I also don't know where your penchat for personal attacks comes from. That doesn't fall under ADD, does it? Maybe you have some comorbid disorder.
(Score: 3, Informative) by GungnirSniper on Sunday December 04 2016, @10:18PM
ADD people do tend to do very well with video games because they've designed to be constantly interesting and requiring input. There's few pauses when you just have to play the next turn or beat the level and boss. Parents like mine didn't understand this and saw me play for hours at a time, yet be unable to sit for long enough to do homework, so they treated my ADD like a discipline problem instead. And of course the childhood ADD test was different and interesting to my young mind so I wasn't diagnosed despite teachers repeatedly telling my parents I had it.
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