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The Rainbow Vegetarian Café in Cambridge, England, has announced that it will not accept the new £5 polymer notes, introduced by the Bank of England in September. Last week the British vegan community discovered that the notes contain trace amounts of beef tallow, which is animal fat, and are therefore unacceptable by their cruelty-free standards. A heated online controversy has resulted, including a petition asking the Bank to remove tallow from the polymer.
The Rainbow Café's owner, Sharon Meijland, told The Telegraph that her stance was announced last Wednesday, at the end of a BBC radio interview on the unrelated topic of Christmas food.
"We sponsor the Vegan Fair and announced on Wednesday we would not be accepting the £5 notes because they are dubious ethically. We have been providing food for vegans for 30 years and have tried to be as ethical as we possibly can...This is not just a restaurant, it's a restaurant where tiny details like this are really important."
Is any of our money cruelty-free?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Francis on Tuesday December 06 2016, @03:33PM
Well, if they aren't going to be taking that bill, then they'll just have to deal with the people who can't pay their entire bill without it getting a free ride.
This sort of thing is why nobody takes vegans seriously.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by dyingtolive on Tuesday December 06 2016, @03:50PM
Living with a vegan, I find that the following becomes truer every day:
That moment your emotions caused a decision that inconveniences the people you rely on to survive is when you stopped being an impassioned idealist trying to make the world a better place, and just became an asshole.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @03:58PM
roomie or SO?
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Tuesday December 06 2016, @04:09PM
SO.
I wouldn't care about the vegan shit if it weren't for the fact that she expects me to buy it for her, and it's twice as expensive as real food (and I'm convinced far less healthy--EVERYTHING is unfermented soy, MSG, and vegetable oil). Then I usually wind up cooking it, because she works a night job and so then I can get it ready by the time she gets home. Of course, I don't mind the second half of that usually. I actually like cooking, but if I'm not hungry, it's hard to get motivated to do something food related when I have other stuff to do anyway.
The other advantage to doing the cooking myself is that while I'm already in the kitchen, I can cook up a steak or some chicken or something and a pile of veggies then be able to have something resembling food rather than whatever strange paste or soylent green she's eating that night.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by ikanreed on Tuesday December 06 2016, @04:51PM
Your wife sucks at being vegan if all she wants is meat and dairy substitutes. My friend's vegan wife learned to, you know, cook healthy dishes out of fruits, vegetables, and grains. The vegan lifestyle works a lot better if you actually understand nutrition.
I tried going vegan for a month, found myself consistently going for overpriced, nearly-as-destructive substitutes and realized "Nope, this is not for me".
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Tuesday December 06 2016, @05:31PM
Ironically, I think I'm better at getting over meat than she is. Before moving in, I basically lived off of stir fry and curry that was effectively vegan most of the time anyway. Every few days I'd toss chicken in for some protein. It's what I was used to eating growing up, but with more meat back then.
Sure, I ate steaks and hamburgers and stuff, but I could live without them. I don't see a week go by without her rushing from something made by gardein or Boca.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @06:19PM
Perhaps she has cravings because she has nutritional deficiencies.
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Tuesday December 06 2016, @07:31PM
I've thought about that. She takes a pile of vitamins daily. She ran out of B12 and attributed that to the cause of feeling really bad one time, and I enjoyed the hell out of asking her how her "healthy" diet was working out for her.
I'm not sure which deficiencies she would not be counteracting with her medicine cabinet of pills. I guess I'll have to go through it and make a list. Personally, I suspect that most of the things she cooks are what she grew up with, and she just prefers it that way, so she goes for the fake stuff and make a compromise, rather than eating an actually semi-healthy vegan diet.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday December 06 2016, @05:37PM
That's close to my situation. My SO is vegetarian. In addition, she's allergic to nuts, sensitive to dairy (straight dairy is out, has to be well cooked and blended), and she does not like eggs, onions (but she likes onion powder), bell peppers, corn, mushrooms, pineapple, apple, iceberg lettuce, among other things. She also doesn't much like anything she didn't do herself, and that bias includes my cooking. Really cuts down the options. Pizza has to be olive or tomato.
She eats a lot of junk food and fast food. Yeah, Cheetos are vegetarian and what dairy they have is highly processed. She insists we buy all organic, but she doesn't know or care whether her favorite restaurants and snacks use organic ingredients.
(Score: 5, Funny) by ikanreed on Tuesday December 06 2016, @05:41PM
With those tastes, your SO is apparently 8 years old. I've alerted the FBI.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @07:49PM
I hope she really enjoys trouser sausage and protein slurpees or I'd kick her to the curb. Too-many-rules is a symptom that never improves over time. Vegetarians (or vegans) and born-agains all eventually like to proselytize.
(Score: 2) by ledow on Tuesday December 06 2016, @04:53PM
Is she noticeably healthier than anyone else you know?
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Tuesday December 06 2016, @05:34PM
Not really. A little overweight (so am I), but she doesn't have any muscle mass. She either can't lift 40 lbs, out she's putting me on. I can handedly outrun her, and I smoke.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 5, Interesting) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Tuesday December 06 2016, @05:07PM
Here's one of my favourite recipes that happens to be vegan (or not, depending...) It's cheap, versatile, tasty, filling, hearty, nutritious, easy. No soy, MSG or vegetable oil anywhere, except a bit of oil to fry in. Surprise your other half with it tomorrow.
Dump a cup of dried lentils in hot water with a stock cube (vegan stock cubes should be available). Red lentils, green, brown... doesn't matter.
Peel a heap some potatoes and chop them into halves / quarters.
Peel & chop some swede and carrots, and any other root veg you have lying around. Turnips are good. Celeriac works well in small doses.
Chop onion and garlic and (optionally) chilli. Fry it slowly in a big wok with curry powder.
When the onion is brown, turn up the heat, chuck the veggies in and throw it all around vigorously, coating the veg with tasty oniony, garlicy, oily stuff.
Now you have two choices: You can either continue in the wok, or you can transfer it to a slow cooker and leave it bubbling all day.[1]
Either way, you now need to throw in the lentils (which should have soaked up the water and turned soft) and add a load more water[2] to cover the veg. Throw in a bit of tomato puree and mix it all up.
Now you just jet it bubble until it's a thick stew, then eat, preferably with crusty bread. This is usually about 25 minutes on the hob, or 6+ hours in the slow cooker.
It's also a great way to use up those bits and pieces sitting in the bottom of the fridge going bad. Got a handful of cherry tomatoes turning a bit wrinkly? Chuck 'em in. Half a green pepper from last week's curry? No problem. Limp celery? Broccolli stalks? The end of a cabbage? Kidney beans? Chop it up and drop it in[3]. Waste not want not.
Enjoy. Once you've mastered that, look up recipes for dahl. Makes me hungry just thinking about it. Dead simple: Onions, garlic, curry powder/ghee, lentils, coconut milk. Serve with rice. Can't go wrong.
[1] Put this in the slow cooker in the morning, wash up the wok and when you get home from work you've got a delicious hot meal waiting for you and almost zero washing up. Fantastic in the winter when you want to get the most out of those cosy evenings in with your SO. You can even peel & chop the veg the night before, if you don't have much time in the mornings.
[2] A nice trick is to use the water from steaming / boiling the vegetables of a previous meal. It retains quite a bit of the flavour and nutrition of whatever was cooked in it, so better to use it than throw it away. I usually have a few tubs of veg water in my freezer for such occasions. You don't even have to defrost it, just dump a block of greenish ice in the wok/slow cooker and let it melt. Dark blue water from red cabbage / purple sprouting always looks good:-)
[3] Also, when the missus isn't about, add some bacon and/or chicken stock. Bacon+lentils is always a great combo. I like to cut a pack of 8 rashers in half, chopping up the fatty end for the stew and saving the leaner end for another meal.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Tuesday December 06 2016, @05:19PM
Even easier, cook a pound of red lentils in 4 cups of water in a large saucepan. Cook some onions in spices (garlic powder, cumin, black pepper, paprika, etc.). Add some salt or MSG. Combine all the ingredients into the saucepan and add 14 oz of generic tomato sauce. Instant curry.
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(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday December 06 2016, @05:21PM
Don't bother washing the lentils (pick out weird bits if they float to the top). Serve on rice.
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(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday December 06 2016, @08:23PM
Don't bother washing the lentils
I don't know about that. I've had bags of lentils that have been really dirty, and since they often have such a high surface area (compared to larger things like dried beans), there can be a lot more of it. Also occasionally small stones or twigs to pick out (though those I tend to find more in bags of beans). And beyond avoiding dirt in your food, rinsing can help avoid most of the pesticides and other such residues that may be in that dirt. (Lentils often don't need as many pesticides as other crops, but all kinds of stuff can accumulate in soil.)
I'm not saying it's a huge deal. But it's an easy and quick step, so I do it.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday December 07 2016, @09:12PM
I didn't notice any issue the last couple of times I made it, so I'm voting for laziness.
The whole concept is easier than any other curry I would make. The lentils get a nice mushy texture in less than 30 minutes. The onions cook in like 10 minutes, concurrently. The rice can be made in a rice cooker. If I wanted to make a "real" curry I would put more effort in.
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(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday December 06 2016, @05:51PM
That's more or less my go-to "lazy girl curry" recipe :) Really helps if you have an Indian or Pakistani grocery nearby!
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @06:15PM
And don't forget to sneak in a bit of salt pork when she's not looking.
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Tuesday December 06 2016, @05:38PM
Both that and what takyon posted look fantastic. She's got the day off today, so I think she's making fake neat Shepard's pie, but I'm going to try those later this week.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 07 2016, @07:23PM
Where, these days, can you find a shepard that is both neat and fake to make a pie out of? Wouldn't it be better just to drop the vegan pretense, and get a real messy shepard?
(Score: 2) by curunir_wolf on Tuesday December 06 2016, @06:01PM
I am a crackpot
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Tuesday December 06 2016, @09:33PM
So use olive oil instead. Or some other oil if you want, but olive oil is good. Not great for frying things, but reasonable even for that. It's just about the only fat I ever use anymore. (Admittely, I usually use it with "italian herbs", but not by any means all the time.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday December 07 2016, @05:52PM
Gluten-free pasta, tomatoes and SPAM.
Cook the pasta, throw in diced tomatoes and diced up SPAM, maybe add a bit of salt and some fresh cracked pepper.
Mmmmmmm..... love SPAM!!@!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 08 2016, @04:04AM
Try it with chick peas instead of lentils too, works nicely.
(Score: 1) by segwonk on Thursday December 08 2016, @09:48PM
GreatAuntAnesthesia:
"[3] Also, when the missus isn't about..."
That's funny - I kind of assumed you were female.
.......go til ya know.
(Score: 2) by theluggage on Tuesday December 06 2016, @05:51PM
The other advantage to doing the cooking myself is that while I'm already in the kitchen, I can cook up a steak or some chicken or something and a pile of veggies
Unless your kitchen resembles a bioweapons cleanroom, you cook wearing a bunny suit and adhere to hygiene rituals that Leviticus himself would have found "a bit fussy" then some of those vegan dishes you prepare for your SO probably contain more dead animal than the new English £5 notes that caused all this fuss.
Anyway, if you eat meat, then anything you cook is the indirect result of animal suffering.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday December 06 2016, @08:02PM
Unless your kitchen resembles a bioweapons cleanroom, you cook wearing a bunny suit and adhere to hygiene rituals that Leviticus himself would have found "a bit fussy"
Funny, but there was no guy named Leviticus. For that matter, none of the books in the Torah (also Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) were named after a person...
The English name is from the Latin Leviticus, taken in turn from Greek and a reference to the Levites, the tribe of Aaron
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday December 06 2016, @08:31PM
True, though Leviticus is the only one of those books named indirectly after a person, since Leviticus is derived from the Levites, who were a tribe descended from Levi, a son of Jacob.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday December 06 2016, @08:53PM
Jacob thought that kid was a dick.
Just sayin'
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday December 06 2016, @09:27PM
I'm a little surprised her vegan diet is costing more, unless she's demanding Boca Burgers or something like that. Tofu, soy milk, pasta, and the kind of stuff a vegan can eat are usually less expensive than meat and dairy. My wife and I spent six months eating vegan once and we saved a lot of money on groceries. Even now I find I can feed our family of four on a block of tofu that costs $2 or less when using chicken would cost me $4-5.
Maybe tell her you'll buy her vegan stuff, but not the packaged food with all the fancy labels on it.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Tuesday December 06 2016, @09:58PM
Yeah, it's stuff like Boca and gardein's fake chicken and beef. Costs about as much for half the volume of food.
10.8 oz of gardein chicken is about $6 and some change. Meanwhile chicken breast fillets are $1.99/lb here ATM.
Yeah, telling her that she's gotta get her own processed crap if she wants it is the next step.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Tuesday December 06 2016, @10:26PM
Also on the topic, vegan butter is 5.58 / lb*. Real butter is $2.99 / lb.
A gallon of almond milk is about 20 bucks (!). It's about 2.50 for a gallon of milk here.
If you're trying to make the same type of food you did before, you're paying a crazy amount of money to do it.
* I am genuinely not sure how this differs from margarine. She says it tastes like butter. I can tell the difference, but I have never compared it to margarine.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 1) by Francis on Wednesday December 07 2016, @03:57AM
Around here the almond milk often goes on sale. I wouldn't pay full price for it anyways. I'm not a vegan, I just avoid it because I no longer have the necessary bacteria to digest lactose properly. It's one of the downsides of not consuming dairy for such a long time, now the bacteria that were doing that aren't there any more.
If you're really cheap, you can always grow your own almonds and turn them into almond milk, or just eat them as almonds. One of the nice things about that is that the almond flowers are relatively nice to look at.
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Wednesday December 07 2016, @07:47AM
Almond milk doesn't really go on sale, but there's a discount food store (similar to an ALDI) that frequently stocks it at a reasonable price that we usually get some from when it's there.
I'm not sure it would work with our space constraints, but growing almonds is a VERY interesting idea.
I actually like the taste of almond milk, but because it's slightly sweet, you have to do some really strange things to get it to taste like real milk in things. I figured out I could make a white gravy out of it that actually tastes like gravy by adding just enough paprika to kill the sweet flavor without being noticeable on it's own. You can also almost curdle it like real milk to make buttermilk. It doesn't taste the same, but it comes out close enough when you bake it.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 2) by CoolHand on Wednesday December 07 2016, @12:40PM
Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job-Douglas Adams
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @05:28PM
That moment your emotions caused a decision that inconveniences the people you rely on to survive is when you stopped being an impassioned idealist trying to make the world a better place, and just became an asshole.
That's the false narrative of dispassionate decision making at work.
Nobody makes decisions free of emotion, especially not decisions that are wrapped up in personal identity.
If you believe yourself to be immune to it, that's just self-deception.
In fact, Michael Lewis (of Moneyball, The Big Short, etc fame) is running a PR tour right now for his new book at that examines exactly that phenomenon, its called "the undoing project."
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Tuesday December 06 2016, @05:42PM
The key wasn't just the emotions making the decision, but the qualifier about the people you depend on.
That being said, your book sounds intriguing.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @06:06PM
> but the qualifier about the people you depend on.
And that's just as specious.
No, really.
If they inconvenienced people they didn't depend on, then they would be accused of being bad citizens, uncaring about the public welfare. We see it every time there is a public protest.
Support from the people you depend on is the point of having people you depend on. Its practically the definition of having people you depend on. If that support was zero-cost there would be no dependence. Your thesis comes across as very reductive and transactional - that you don't support the people you love because you love them, only for what they can give you and once their needs from you are greater than your needs from them, they need to cut that shit out and conform to your expectations.
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Tuesday December 06 2016, @07:24PM
The alternative would be to NOT inconvenience people, or rather more realistically, minimize the amount of inconvenience you do to those people. If you really loved them, I'd think you'd want to avoid being a burden on them as much as possible.
You're right about the zero-cost thing. I was not considering any sort of initial dependence upon a person an inconvenience. I suppose I should have said "further inconvenience".
The problem is that I have a general sense of one-sidedness about it. Ranty anecdote time: She was a vegetarian, then after she moved in, suddenly went in with the vegan bullshit. Singlehandedly, she caused the monthly food budget to go up 350-400% (200% people, fake vegan food roughly 150%-200% the price of real food). I had to cut back on things I enjoy doing significantly as a result of it, which is fine, but then later, when I told her that, with her other bills on top of that, I was struggling to save anything, and had already cut out about everything I could. I told her that I couldn't afford to sustain her, and she needed to get a job. She said she was going to get one, but never did. That became a fight, and she begrudgingly (after I showed her the numbers and invited her to find something else I could cut out) found a job that barely covers her personal bills, self-righteously citing that she "doesn't need that much money to be happy," nevermind that I'm still paying for everything else. Now she's "too busy working to help with housework" and gets mad at me for not doing more, though I work 20-30 hours more a week than her, and cook almost every night.
I don't like keeping score, but that one event stuck in my mind so vividly, even now. Just the total ungratefulness of everything I'd been trying to do already as well as the total resentment about needing to do something other than sit on her ass all day long. Prior to that, I'd never bothered her about the job. Never demanded it of her. So in the case of my anecdote, I'd say yeah, she needs to cut that shit out and conform to my expectations. I'm struggling under the load. She needs to pull HER fucking weight and help out. Maybe that makes me the bad guy. If it does, I don't really mind.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @07:56PM
Poor bastard. You forgot the cardinal rule. If it flies, floats, or fucks it's cheaper to rent. You've taken on ownership responsibilities.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @08:04PM
> The alternative would be to NOT inconvenience people, or rather more realistically, minimize the amount of inconvenience you do to those people.
Anything that challenges the status quo will cause inconvenience. If it did not cause inconvenience, then it would be the status quo.
You seem to at least partially recognize that because you are now softening your position to "minimize." But that is a completely undefined definition, your version of minimal isn't necessarily going to be anyone else's definition.
> Ranty anecdote time:
I am not even going to read past that because your personal relationship problems are not a basis for a general principle. You trying to make them into such a principle is a variation on the appeal to authority fallacy because it lets you abdicate responsibility for working things out with this person in favor of unilaterally declaring them wrong and you right.
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Tuesday December 06 2016, @08:16PM
Why does anyone's definition of "minimize" need to be consistently defined across any set of people? For any given person, if you have principles, and your principles inconveniences that person sufficiently, that person will not like you and go elsewhere.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @08:30PM
> Why does anyone's definition of "minimize" need to be consistently defined across any set of people?
Because you've offered it up as a general principle for when to judge if someone is in the wrong.
If it can't be consistently defined, then its not a general principle. Its situational.
(Score: 1) by cmdrklarg on Tuesday December 06 2016, @08:59PM
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday December 06 2016, @09:02PM
You might consider getting a new girlfriend. Money breaks up most marriages, and it sounds like you're not doing well on that front already. If she's behaving this way now, how do you think she'll behave when she thinks she owns you? Cut your losses and move on.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by CoolHand on Wednesday December 07 2016, @12:47PM
Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job-Douglas Adams
(Score: 1) by Francis on Wednesday December 07 2016, @04:00AM
Veganism is 100% about emotions. The difference in health between eating a little bit of meat/animal products and eating none at all is pretty significant.
It doesn't take much meat to make sure that you're diet is nutritionally sound, but trying to construct a diet that's vegan and nutritionally sound is incredibly difficult. I used to go to a college where there were a ton of vegans and they always looked malnourished and usually were. I have known a vegan powerlifter who appeared to be in great health, so it would appear to be possible to get the necessary nutrients without the animal products, but I have to wonder if it would be affordable for people who aren't independently wealthy and don't have advanced degrees in nutrition to accomplish.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 07 2016, @01:41PM
Or as seen from the other side:
Veganism is 100% about morality. The difference in morality between committing even one murder and not murdering at all is pretty significant.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06 2016, @05:45PM
Living with a vegan, I find that the following becomes truer every day:
That moment your emotions caused a decision that inconveniences the people you rely on to survive is when you stopped being an impassioned idealist trying to make the world a better place, and just became an asshole.
A friend of mine's band used to have this great bassist who suddenly quit and we hardly ever see the guy at other common friends parties anymore either. When asked about it he gave a few reasons and capped it off with "I guess we should have seen this coming when he suddenly went vegan."
I decided long ago that vegetarians weren't worth dating, at the very least I wasn't going to deal with the hassle of separate meals and knowing that the relationship will eventually just grow toxic and they try to "convert" you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 07 2016, @05:19AM
I can see you possess some strong principles, being that you are apparently unwilling to inconvenience others in order to follow them.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by dr_barnowl on Wednesday December 07 2016, @09:27AM
Honestly.... I'd get out of that relationship.
I married someone who was not a vegan, but an incredibly finicky eater. Wouldn't try new things, would refuse to eat a plateful of food if you so much as touched the plate with something she imagined had a trace of some contamination on it. Wouldn't let me do the food shopping, complained about having to do it and pay for it herself. Hated me cooking, for various control-freak reasons.
After our marriage fell apart, I'm with someone who is an ex-vegetarian. A little less widely-eaten than me, some vestigial traces of finicky eating left, but she's a born-again lover of food, and actually seeks to broaden her horizons. She's recently overcome her prejudice against prawns and actually started enjoying them. Cooking is no longer something I'm not allowed to do, it's something we share, and we can share the product of that mutual activity and really enjoy it. We discover new foods we love together. The hard part of picking a restaurant isn't finding somewhere she's prepared to eat, but picking from the enormous choice we have available.
Food is a substantial fraction of the human experience. I firmly believe that we need to be with someone gastro-compatible with ourselves as much as we need to be with someone sexually compatible.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 07 2016, @01:44PM
Is that a fancy way of saying "slimmer"?
(Score: 2) by CoolHand on Wednesday December 07 2016, @12:26PM
Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job-Douglas Adams
(Score: 2) by CoolHand on Wednesday December 07 2016, @01:43PM
Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job-Douglas Adams