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An Anonymous Coward writes:
Found this interesting bit of history at the NY Times
George H. W. Bush: Hello, Mikhail.
Mikhail S. Gorbachev: George, my dear friend. It is good to hear your voice.
G.B.: I greet you on this momentous day, this historic day. I appreciate your calling me.
M.G.: Let me begin by saying something pleasant to you: Merry Christmas to you, Barbara and your family. I had been thinking about when to make my statement, Tuesday or today. I finally decided to do it today, at the end of the day. So let me say first Merry Christmas and very best wishes.
Well, let me say that in about two hours I will speak on Moscow TV and will make a short statement about my decision. I have sent a letter to you, George. I hope you will receive it shortly. I said in the letter a most important thing. And I would like to reaffirm to you that I greatly value what we did working together with you, first as vice president and then as president of the United States. I hope that all leaders of the commonwealth and, above all, Russia understand what kind of assets we have accrued between the leaders of our two countries. I hope they understand their responsibility to preserve and expand this important source of capital.
Gorbachev goes on to say that he is handing off control of the USSR's nukes to Russia in an organized fashion. Bush thanks him for that and then recalls the fun they had tossing horseshoes at Camp David.
With all the talk of Trump and Putin being business buddies, it looks like there is at least some precedent of the two cold war country leaders carrying on a civil conversation.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 03 2017, @07:03PM
With all the talk of Trump and Putin being business buddies, it looks like there is at least some precedent of the two cold war country leaders carrying on a civil conversation.
Gorbachev was a reformer, bringing the USSR closer to ideals of a free democracy. Its no surprise Bush and Gorby were friendly, they both agreed on the general principles of a free country.
Putin is a reactionary, bringing russia closer to the (perceived) glory days of USSR and Tsarist autocracy. Its also no surprise that Trump and Putin are friendly, they both agree on the general principles of strongman governance and cult of personality.
(Score: 2) by n1 on Tuesday January 03 2017, @09:01PM
I would argue that Putin is more pragmatic than he is reactionary. He is of course being portrayed as reactionary by a press and government that is willfully ignorant of their own hypocrisy in that regard.
I don't think Putin and Trump are friendly either, even in a political sense rather than personal. They both see an opportunity in the political landscape of the moment and will seek to further their own agendas. I find it hard to believe there's any affinity or mutual respect between the two men. I do suspect that Trump has a degree of envy for Putin's cult of personality for sure, but that is a one way street.
when the dust settles in the next few months I am certain the vague pro Putin rhetoric will fade, but there is a chance of more productive and constructive Russia relations, which isn't a bad thing. the current spins on 'Russia hacking' is pathetic and is doing nothing productive.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Tuesday January 03 2017, @09:50PM
My anecdotal experience kinda backs up your point about Putin. I have a couple Russian migrant colleagues and their comment has always been that Putin is doing what he is doing in order to keep in check all the corrupt and very powerful officials. The moment he shows any weakness, he's a dead man. Also a lot of his decisions are based on solving problems for Russia even if the approach isn't right for the rest of the world and isn't necessarily because he's an egomaniac (he might be - I don't know), although the press would like to paint it that way. So he's doing it for his country first and foremost which is natural as he's the leader of the country. Looks like Trump is playing the same card, at least that's his claim during the campaign.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 03 2017, @10:27PM
Putting Russia first? Imagine the concept.. Them Russians must hate him
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 03 2017, @10:41PM
I have a couple Russian migrant colleagues and their comment has always been that Putin is doing what he is doing in order to keep in check all the corrupt and very powerful officials.
That is certainly the way Putin sells it.
I think its the opposite though. He created the oligarchs. Sure he's slapped down a couple of them over the years when they got out of line. But that's how he makes sure the rest know their place.
If you mean government officials, then no I don't agree. His one-term installation of Medev as a puppet in order to circumvent the law about continually holding the office for too many terms contradicts that theory. All the reporting I've seen is that he basically micro-manages Russia in a way that is nearly unimaginable in a democracy where government institutions are fairly autonomous. Nobody makes any significant decisions without running it past him first.
I do agree that his position is very precarious. If he does start to show weakness, he will be crushed. Kind of his fault for setting the system up that way though.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 04 2017, @12:16AM
> If he does start to show weakness, he will be crushed.
Hmmm, who does Russia get for a leader if Putin goes down? Anyone? A figurehead put there by Russian oil money?
I'm asking because Trump may just be clever enough to get Putin to show some weakness. Not saying this would be a good thing for Trump to do, because Trump probably hasn't done any thinking about what comes next--just that Trump focuses in on the win/kill.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 04 2017, @02:25AM
> Trump may just be clever enough to get Putin to show some weakness.
Fat chance.
If Putin does something stupid as a result of Trump its going to be nothing more than supremely bad luck on Putin's part.
Trump is not a 4D-chess grandmaster. He's just the "right man" for the times. Without twitter and 20 years of conservative media yammering on about the lugenpresse he'd be just another billionaire born with a silver spoon up his ass.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday January 04 2017, @02:49AM
I think its the opposite though. He created the oligarchs.
No, the oligarchs predate Putin. They came about when state assets, particular, oil production infrastructure was sold off in rigged auctions under the Yeltsin administration.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 04 2017, @05:29AM
Thank you mister literal.
Since you lack the ability to understand context, nuance and rhetorical expressions what I meant was that Putin continued Yeltsin's policies and that the oligarchs grew much more powerful under Putin. When he took power in 2000, he made a deal with the oligarchs - they don't fuck with politics and he won't fuck with them. Putin had no plans to renationalize any of the assets the oligarchs stole from the people. Putin went after Khodorkovsky only once he started funding opposition liberal parties and publicly considered running for office in 2008 when Putin's term was due to expire. The other oligarchs who didn't challenge Putin, they did just fine.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday January 04 2017, @01:54PM
Since you lack the ability to understand context, nuance and rhetorical expressions what I meant was that Putin continued Yeltsin's policies and that the oligarchs grew much more powerful under Putin.
You're welcome. I like to help people recall how history actually went.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 04 2017, @02:36PM
lol
you are such a fucktard