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posted by on Tuesday January 03 2017, @06:14PM   Printer-friendly
from the actual-statesmen dept.

An Anonymous Coward writes:

Found this interesting bit of history at the NY Times

George H. W. Bush: Hello, Mikhail.

Mikhail S. Gorbachev: George, my dear friend. It is good to hear your voice.

G.B.: I greet you on this momentous day, this historic day. I appreciate your calling me.

M.G.: Let me begin by saying something pleasant to you: Merry Christmas to you, Barbara and your family. I had been thinking about when to make my statement, Tuesday or today. I finally decided to do it today, at the end of the day. So let me say first Merry Christmas and very best wishes.

Well, let me say that in about two hours I will speak on Moscow TV and will make a short statement about my decision. I have sent a letter to you, George. I hope you will receive it shortly. I said in the letter a most important thing. And I would like to reaffirm to you that I greatly value what we did working together with you, first as vice president and then as president of the United States. I hope that all leaders of the commonwealth and, above all, Russia understand what kind of assets we have accrued between the leaders of our two countries. I hope they understand their responsibility to preserve and expand this important source of capital.

Gorbachev goes on to say that he is handing off control of the USSR's nukes to Russia in an organized fashion. Bush thanks him for that and then recalls the fun they had tossing horseshoes at Camp David.

With all the talk of Trump and Putin being business buddies, it looks like there is at least some precedent of the two cold war country leaders carrying on a civil conversation.


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 03 2017, @08:44PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 03 2017, @08:44PM (#449051)

    Straw men and personal attacks. Nice.

    Brainwashing? I'm not the one forcing children to make a daily pledge of a allegiance to a flag...

  • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by ikanreed on Tuesday January 03 2017, @09:04PM

    by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 03 2017, @09:04PM (#449064) Journal

    Ah, the misidentified logical fallacy, the first refuge of the bluster-fueled idiot who desperately wants to pretend to care about rational discourse.

    Let's start with the general notion of what a logical fallacy is:
    In the strictest sense, a logical fallacy is an argument that posits a claim that isn't necessarily true based on the supporting structure of the argument. In the former of the two you've invoked in your case, the strawman, comes from suggesting because of an artificially flawed version of a statement is false, a more robust version also must be false. This is noxious, because as far as I can tell, you've presented no arguments, just flatly stated ideology, without any sort of logical construction. Moreover I have to insist I was pretty direct in addressing exactly what you said and implied, such as in answer to the immorality of a state vis-a-vis violence as a means of control. Crying strawman without being specific marks you more as a whiner than seriously maligned.

    This raises an important aside about logical fallacies: they're really only relevant when discussing logic. You've given me as many formal or informal syllogisms to analyze in my rebuttal as you've given serious critical analysis your ideological system: none. You might want to think about those nice glass walls you've got on your house before you tossing illogical stones.

    The second fallacy you address, personal attacks aren't used in a fallacious way(i.e. you're wrong because you're short), but a jocular, mocking way, tying into the primary argument entirely as a throwaway aside. You know this perfectly well. If the worst you can say is that I hurt your feelings with an insincere witticism, then the most you can expect is a half-assed apology. I'm sorry.

    I'm not the one forcing children to make a daily pledge of a allegiance to a flag

    *GASP* I'm not either. What a twist! It's almost like you cannot identify the differences between hundreds of different political ideologies because you had to invent a strawman label to throw everyone who disagrees with you under.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 03 2017, @09:06PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 03 2017, @09:06PM (#449067)

      OK