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posted by on Wednesday January 04 2017, @10:48AM   Printer-friendly
from the now-we-wait-and-watch dept.

Basic Income is a subject that regularly surfaces in Soylent discussions, so here's a story about Finland's impending experiment with it:

Finland has become the first country in Europe to pay its unemployed citizens a basic monthly income, amounting to 560 euros ($587 US), in a unique social experiment which is hoped to cut government red tape, reduce poverty and boost employment.

Olli Kangas from the Finnish government agency KELA, which is responsible for the country's social benefits, said Monday that the two-year trial with the 2,000 randomly picked citizens who receive unemployment benefits kicked off Jan. 1.

Those chosen will receive 560 euros every month, with no reporting requirements on how they spend it. The amount will be deducted from any benefits they already receive.

The average private sector income in Finland is 3,500 euros per month, according to official data.

Also at The Guardian and swissinfo.ch.


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  • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Wednesday January 04 2017, @04:23PM

    by jmorris (4844) on Wednesday January 04 2017, @04:23PM (#449418)

    Why not the simpler answer, both are symptoms of the same problem: Politics.

    The poor have their Socialist Party to lobby the government for more welfare. (Social Democrat, Labor, Democratic, the party label changes from place/time to avoid the negative stigma that always attaches.) The banks use lobbyists to accomplish the same thing. The thing is stealing from the treasury. Stealing is always wrong. How about that? Nice simple and general rule. With our current social technology government is required, things like military, courts, usually roads, etc. all work best with a government. Governments are NOT required to redistribute wealth though, if you count each and every occurrence as a failure you get a rule that is simple and easy to apply.

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 04 2017, @06:43PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 04 2017, @06:43PM (#449470)

    Taxes are theft, yatta yatta whatever.

    There is no magic free market and society will always have to account for the human factor. UBI isn't theft or redistribution like you think. It is a social safety net that will improve the lives of millions, and much of the cost is already factored into existing welfare programs that could then be eliminated. But hey, don't let humanity advance if it goes against your personal feelings of individuality and accomplishment. You're a special snowflake that shouldn't have to contribute back to society except in ways you deem worthy.

    Money is a fictional entity used by humans to enable them to help each other, doing things for the sake of money is a backwards approach.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by jelizondo on Wednesday January 04 2017, @07:00PM

    by jelizondo (653) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 04 2017, @07:00PM (#449475) Journal

    Please jmorris, hear me out. I know it will go against your beliefs but one thing is belief and quite another is reality.

    Do you think you paid the entirety of the roads you travel? Do you think that the majority of the cost was borne by the poor to middle-class people? Nope. It was wealth redistribution. You see, not only commies do that; we also do it in the free market.

    Now, think about people like Warren Buffett [cnn.com], who claims to pay a lower tax rate than his secretary and people like Donald Trump [nytimes.com], who claims hasn’t paid taxes in years. Is it fair that hardworking people like you and me have no choice but to pay taxes while billionaires can pay very little or no tax?

    And don’t get me started on Apple, Microsoft and many other corporations that offshore their profits and pay no taxes in the U.S.

    If everyone, person or corporation, paid his fair share there would be a lot of money to meet the costs of stuff that is derided today, like tuition-free college. Not a commie thing, just fairness. Free market should not mean the law of the stronger. We are supposed to be civilized, not jungle people.

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by jmorris on Wednesday January 04 2017, @09:53PM

      by jmorris (4844) on Wednesday January 04 2017, @09:53PM (#449548)

      Do you think you paid the entirety of the roads you travel?

      A big chunk of roads are paid for by gas taxes and vehicle taxes, often varying by the impact of the vehicle on the roads so big heavy cars and trucks pay more. So yes, a company running a fleet of trucks pays more. That is reasonable. A rich person with a luxury car might only pay a little more because it is a little heavier. That too is fair.

      Now, think about people like Warren Buffett, who claims to pay a lower tax rate than his secretary

      I know that is a fetish of progs, but who cares? Does Mr. Buffett pay MORE TAXES than his secretary? Yes he does, a lot more. He pays a lower rate because it is investment income, which we incentivize with a lower rate; because we encourage savings and investment over consumption for its positive effects on the economy. Saving is good. If you want to argue for changing the tax system to punish savings and encourage consumption we can have that debate; you will lose but we can have it.

      And don’t get me started on Apple, Microsoft and many other corporations that offshore their profits and pay no taxes in the U.S.

      You are economically illiterate so this doesn't come as a shock. Those companies operate worldwide. We have the highest corporate tax rates in the developed world at the moment. Explain why it is responsible to the shareholders to bring profits into the U.S. under those circumstances? Explain why it is wrong to relocate a corporate headquarters from a country that punishes them to a country that welcomes them. If we want the world to move/keep their headquarters here and invest in plants, equipment and employees here we have to compete for that against every other country who would like that wealth flowing into their country.

      If everyone, person or corporation, paid his fair share...

      Define it. Or STFU. Tell us what a 'fair share' is. Tell us the percentage of someone's labor you feel entitled to seize and redistribute. Tell us the number that is fair, the number that one percent more would be unfair. Or admit you simply envy others and covet their goods; that you would be fine with seizing it all.

      like tuition-free college

      Don't colleges suck enough now? Why do you want to utterly destroy education? Do you want to redistribute ignorance equally or something?

      Not a commie thing, just fairness.

      Explain what is 'fair' about enslaving one group of people to serve the wants and desires of another group?

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 04 2017, @10:42PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 04 2017, @10:42PM (#449573)

        As usual you keep your head firmly tucked between your butt cheeks. You're a greedy small minded person swallowing lame propaganda and spouting back pseudo-intellectual garbage.

        Explain what is 'fair' about enslaving one group of people to serve the wants and desires of another group?

        I guess it sails way way waaayyy over your head that we currently have 99% enslaved by 1%. Why should the actual workers not get a share of the profits from their work? I thought that was the ideal scenario for you libcons, put in hard work and get your rewards. Right now people put in their hard work and get the bare minimum the company is willing to pay. Its a pyramid scheme with only a little more validity than the actual scam version.

        Greedy bastards just don't want to give up their little empires.