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Basic Income is a subject that regularly surfaces in Soylent discussions, so here's a story about Finland's impending experiment with it:
Finland has become the first country in Europe to pay its unemployed citizens a basic monthly income, amounting to 560 euros ($587 US), in a unique social experiment which is hoped to cut government red tape, reduce poverty and boost employment.
Olli Kangas from the Finnish government agency KELA, which is responsible for the country's social benefits, said Monday that the two-year trial with the 2,000 randomly picked citizens who receive unemployment benefits kicked off Jan. 1.
Those chosen will receive 560 euros every month, with no reporting requirements on how they spend it. The amount will be deducted from any benefits they already receive.
The average private sector income in Finland is 3,500 euros per month, according to official data.
Also at The Guardian and swissinfo.ch.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 04 2017, @06:28PM
So much supposition and assumption. The smart people turn down assistance? You're insane, bootstrapping yourself into a logically comfortable position where you can have shitty fucking ideals and deceive yourself into believing they're "good and righteous". There are two very large issues that relate to this topic:
1. Systemic problems causing massive wealth inequality that can not be avoided. No amount of willpower and hard work will bring everyone a good job, there literally are not enough good jobs to go around.
2. People like you who blame the victims of our broken system. You enable the wealthy to continue their greedy destruction by buying into the class/race/culture wars they promote.
Your group of people also believes that welfare supporters are secret authoritarians, yet the conservatives are always the ones pushing massive restrictions on personal freedoms and legislating against behavior they don't like. I'll take the liberal "authoritarians" who provide programs to help humanity and not the conservative types that want to imprison and stomp on the faces of humanity that doesn't make the cut.
(Score: 2) by curunir_wolf on Wednesday January 04 2017, @09:02PM
yet the conservatives are always the ones pushing massive restrictions on personal freedoms and legislating against behavior they don't like.
You mean like placing high taxes on cigarettes and soda? Strictly regulating e-cigarettes and cigars? Passing restrictions on free speech and owning guns? Requiring health insurance and what kind you must have? Restricting private property rights? Requiring how much you can pay workers? Requiring that 15% of your earnings pay for old people's income? Requiring you to pay for public schools that you don't use? Those policies?
I hate to tell you this, but all those massive restrictions on personal freedoms are NOT pushed by conservatives.
I am a crackpot
(Score: 2) by dry on Thursday January 05 2017, @04:07AM
I think it is more like outright banning things like alcohol and various other drugs that the wrong people use. Passing restrictions on speech and other forms of expression that is offensive to them such as anything sex related as well as preventing whole classes of people from owning weapons (certain colours of people and anyone considered dishonest even though the right applies to every person).
It's true that they're usually OK with not paying workers and requiring some % of income to pay for corporations to exist. And of course, lots of right wing countries force people to pay for churches that they don't use, often by just saying that they don't have to pay for the road that serves them.
I'd suggest that you visit one of the conservative allies of the USA to see how far restricting rights can go. Perhaps Saudi Arabia, as conservative of a country as you'll find.
(Score: 2) by curunir_wolf on Thursday January 05 2017, @04:52AM
The point is, far left and far right are both authoritarians and taken to extremes both with try to restrict freedoms in many horrible ways. Lately in the US it's been the left attacking free speech, going further trying to do that than I ever thought I would see happen. If you're looking at extremes there is no more freedom-restricting regime than the far-left North Korea or Communist China. Conservatives certainly have no monopoly on authoritarianism.
BTW, if you want churches, mosques, synagogues and the like to pay property taxes, you also have to remove the tax exemption from all other charities, homeless shelters (often church-based), soup kitchens (often church-based), orphanages, museums, cemeteries, and others. I guess that might be a good thing because then the authoritarian left can then stop telling religious leaders what they can and can't say all the time. I'm assuming this is just you hating religions (probably only SOME of them), because as SCOTUS stated in McCulloch v. Maryland "the power to tax involves the power to destroy."
Not sure WTF you're talking about with income taxes being paid to let corporations exist. I mean, WTF? I wasn't even talking about income taxes, I was talking about payroll taxes, but you don't seem to know the difference. Do you even know where income taxes go? They go into the Treasury, and that pays for EVERYTHING the government does. But do they tax wealth? NO they tax the only thing that poor people have: their LABOR. How's THAT for a fucked up restriction on freedom? The Federal government takes 15% right off the top, BEFORE income taxes.
So I'll go to Saudi Arabia if you go to North Korea. Good luck, comrade!
I am a crackpot
(Score: 2) by dry on Friday January 06 2017, @05:40AM
It's not so much hard left or hard right, it's authoritarian left or right. Hard left should mean no government for example. Not sure what hard right would be though they even have a libertarian wing.
Around here, while church's get (property) tax free status automatically, other tax free institutions have their tax free status looked at every year and if they're not improving the community, they lose it. Should be the same for religious institutions, some do good and some don't.
Different jurisdictions handle payroll taxes and income taxes differently. Here a lot of seniors get their government pension plan topped up out of general revenue, especially people such as housewives who didn't pay much payroll tax to begin with, being busy with non-productive stuff such as bringing up children.
Last government, a right wing one, operated like all they existed for was to help big business. Taxpayer research was only to be done to help business and the taxpayers weren't even allowed to see the science and the government employees weren't allowed to speak to the taxpayers without going through a political.
N. Korea and especially China have gone so far left that they're now right. N. Korea basically has a monarchy even if they do call themselves a republic and China seems like one of the most business friendly governments in the world.
Of course right and left are not things that you can easily point to and especially in America their meanings seem very fluid with both sides having a fantasy about what they really mean
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 05 2017, @05:52AM
You are not wrong and I hate the authoritarians on the left just as I hate them on the right. However rules and regulations are a part of government and the discussion should be more about which ones are worthwhile. Some things are necessary because we live in a society, this weird pure freedom idea is so far removed from reality that I'm not sure what to say... Its a wonderful idea if it could work without tossing millions to the wolves, or allowing the wolves to get worse, but that is not the reality we live in.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday January 04 2017, @09:56PM
> The smart people turn down assistance?
All the time. Look at how offended the Big Oil executives look when they get their subsidies.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday January 05 2017, @12:20AM
"The smart people turn down assistance?"
Have you visited the ghettos? Have you been in the housing projects? What you will find there, is not "assisstance", but a "way of life". Street gangs, and baby mamas, all living off of government largesse and illicit drug money.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 05 2017, @06:12AM
I'm tired of debating with the idiots of this site. It pains me because you're not actually an idiot, just stuck in a narrow minded belief system because you think you've "figured out" the world. The problem with all human "figuring out" is that we're pretty terrible at seeing our own presumptions, hindsight is 20/20, etc. There are people who actually study these social problems yet you are able to come up with a simple answer when you haven't really studied the problems and haven't even lived in the conditions you describe. It takes effort to keep your mind from running on its existing thought patterns, until you can accomplish that and broaden your mental horizons I bid you good day.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 05 2017, @06:21AM
It pains me because you're not actually an idiot, just stuck in a narrow minded belief system because you think you've "figured out" the world.
Nope, not nearly. Runaway1254 is actually an idiot, and he hasn't figured out anything. His VCR is still blinking. When his wife goes to play bingo, he believes her. He actually thinks he served in the navy! No, stupid, uneducated, delusional, racist, Fox News listener and Breetfart reader. As dumb as they come. That's our Runaway! And correct, there is no point to debating him.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 05 2017, @03:49PM
"No amount of willpower and hard work will bring everyone a good job, there literally are not enough good jobs to go around."
you make your own job, ffs.