SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
Germany finds itself in a dilemma. After WW2, laws were put in place to ensure that the Federal Government could never again subvert the security apparatus to create something similar to that which enabled the Nazis to seize power. A quite laudable aim, at least at the time. As a result the German States, of which there are currently 16, are each responsible for their own security and intelligence organizations. The Federal Security organization has only limited responsibility for the security at such places as borders and railway station etc.
In a speech reported here the Federal Minister of the Interior Thomas de Maiziere has suggested that this split of responsibilities needs to be rethought to enable acts of terrorism which are targeting at the country rather than the individual states to be effectively combated:
De Maiziere examines national as well as European security structures in the article, and concludes: reforms are "required." The core of his analysis calls for expanded federal responsibilities, which will demand that states relinquish some of theirs. Formulations such as "centrally operative crisis management" or "control competence over all security agencies" appear throughout the article.
However, the recent terror attack, the most serious in Germany in over 35 years, did not prompt de Maiziere's considerations, it simply gave him a reason to group them together into a kind of list of demands. The interior minister writes that he himself had proposed most of the changes "prior to the attack." The demands affect all authorities and areas of government concerned with defense against the threat of terror: Namely, the police and the Office for the Protection of the Constitution (BfV), Germany's domestic intelligence agency - but also, as the minister sees it, the army. The international scope of the problem, he says, touches on the need to secure Europe's external borders, as well as the global dimensions of the right to asylum.
This suggestion has not gone down well, particularly with those who were living in fear of a state controlled secret intelligence organisation (Ministerium für Staatssicherheit, MfS), commonly known as the Stasi) until relatively recently.
[Continues...]
For example, this report contains the following:
Anis Amri, believed to have carried out the [recent Berlin] attack, was allowed to remain in the country because he did not have a valid travel document and his home country, Tunisia, initially refused to produce one.
To handle such cases, Mr. de Maizière suggested setting up federally controlled "departure centers," which could be placed "close to German airports" to aid the process.
He argued that such measures were already possible within existing German law and suggested extending the period for which a person can be detained pending deportation beyond the current maximum of four days.
Opposition lawmakers sharply rejected that suggestion, insisting that the government had a responsibility to respect the human rights of each individual, even those who are to be deported.
"In a country governed by the rule of law, the end does not justify every means," said Ulla Jelpke, an interior affairs expert with the left-wing Left Party.
She further criticized the plans as a "frontal assault" on the decentralization of powers that were set up to prevent another takeover like that of the Nazis.
What initially appeared as a problem with a relatively simple solution has become a lot more complex.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 04 2017, @10:32PM
This sad viewpoint is trotted out all the time, yet it is very off base. There will always be a small group of extremists who promote violence, every world religion has/had them. There are Christians who quote the bible and attack abortion clinics and homosexuals. So knock off this cultural warfare crap.
That said, there is obviously reason for caution. However, implementing more divisive and discriminatory policies will lose the goodwill of the 99.9% of muslims who would likely help locate actual terrorists. Like it or not the Western societies have absolutely fucked up the Middle East. I'm not saying you should feel guilty or do anything in particular, but I am saying that you should drop the xenophobia and work on real solutions. Your ideas are all terribad and will result in further conflict.
(Score: 1, Troll) by VLM on Wednesday January 04 2017, @10:41PM
work on real solutions
Like what, bulk discounts for body bags for the citizens? Fund a startup to make police rape kits cheaper because there's gonna be a lot more of them needed by citizens? That's about all that's been proposed so far as a solution.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 05 2017, @12:16AM
More like old fashioned police work, incarceration for crimes and then deportation at the end of the sentence. Have the spies dig up info on refugees to try and screen them. Disperse the refugees so they aren't living in a big cultural group. Educational programs designed to help them assimilate better and get a clear lesson on the local laws. Get community organizers to build some watchdog groups from the refugees themselves. I bet you'll find a lot of nice helpful people who will try very hard to eliminate the bad actors, it is in their own best interest for Germans to view the refugees favorably.
Was that enough? Or shall we stick to scare mongering and Nazi train references?
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 05 2017, @02:12AM
refugees
We don't need them. It's not the job of the western world to take these so-called "people" in.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 05 2017, @02:46AM
You betray your own savagery.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday January 05 2017, @03:45AM
How about you log in and use your account to post shit like that, you festering coward?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 05 2017, @06:04PM
that's a bullshit complaint when fragile little snowflakes like vlm and jmorris make it
its a bullshit complaint when you make it too
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday January 05 2017, @06:34PM
Oh fuck you. Is it too much to ask that people who want to post things like that have the guts to attach a 'nym to it? I never, ever post AC on here. I'm beginning to wonder if I should also browse at +1 now rather than -1.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Bogsnoticus on Thursday January 05 2017, @06:16AM
Then by all means, lead the charge of not accepting them by refusing to partake in the causes of them migrating away from their once-great, now-shitty country.
Stop buying cheap oil based products. Stop buying electronic devices filled with rare earth minerals dug up from those countries.
Your government and corporations helped creat the clusterfuck they are fleeing from. Your government then send over troops to fight the "evil Mr Nasty", and whilst they're over there, the troops are actively promoting how superior their culture is, coz Freedom!(tm).
After all that, you then complain that a country made great by immigrants, then has to put up with yet more immigrants.
The immigrants aren't the problem. You are.
Genius by birth. Evil by choice.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday January 05 2017, @08:50PM
Yes, but cognitive dissonance is their game. They want a world without consequences, such that they can have cheap oil and never have to worry, think, or change.
You can try to point out that doing what you suggest would be about the single best thing they could do for themselves economically, because all those hundreds of billions of dollars now spent on oil could be spent on other things in this country that would create well-paying jobs for them and theirs, but connecting those two dots is too much mental effort for them. They have chosen the Derp Side of the Force, and forever will it dominate their destiny.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 05 2017, @08:41AM
This sad viewpoint is trotted out all the time, yet it is very off base. There will always be a small group of extremists who promote violence, every world religion has/had them. There are Christians who quote the bible and attack abortion clinics and homosexuals. So knock off this cultural warfare crap.
It's not the number of people that is the problem, it's the fact they profess an inherently violent ideology which promotes the hatred and violence against everyone who isn't part of it.
There are Christians who quote the bible and attack abortion clinics and homosexuals.
Apples to oranges. The bible doesn't say "fight the infidels whenever you find them and show them no mercy unless they surrender unconditionally". The bible doesn't say "if you die fighting in the name of Yahweh all of your sins will be wiped and you get to go in heaven".
However, implementing more divisive and discriminatory policies will lose the goodwill of the 99.9% of muslims who would likely help locate actual terrorists.
No they wouldn't. A "moderate" Muslim will not help you track down a Mulsim terrorist anymore than a "moderate" Christian will aid the police of a predominantly Muslim nation to track down a Christian terrorist. Tribialism is a thing, denying reality like that only helps the white nationalist asswipes gain even more political credibility.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday January 05 2017, @09:03PM
I don't think you've read the Bible. The Old Testament records all kinds of atrocities the Jews committed against their neighbors, but presumably that was OK because they were the Chosen People (tm). It also condones other awful crimes like incest. The characters who feature prominently in it are despicable, when you read what's actually written there.
People who assert it's a book full of Good Stuff while the Koran is full of Bad Stuff, are doing it based on feelings, not facts.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @01:06PM
If we are judging people by ideas their group has since rejected, then can I judge you by the terror campaign your country committed against the third world in the cold war?
People who assert it's a book full of Good Stuff
Barking up the wrong tree there buddy, I would be the first to criticize Christianity for all the horrible shit that actually applies to it.
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Thursday January 05 2017, @08:03PM
Your false equivalencies are LITERALLY GETTING INNOCENT PEOPLE KILLED.
"There are Christians who quote the bible and attack abortion clinics and homosexuals."
You are bad at statistics and you should feel like a fool. The proportion of murders per religious person is massively staggered against Islam. Look at the differences between predominantly Christian nations and predominantly Muslim nations. "Oh no! Christian """"EXTREMISTS""" refused to bake a gay person a cake!!! Inhuman!!!!" "What? Some moderate muslims locked 50 Christians inside a steel cage and lowered it into the ocean? Bah! Details, details! Islam is the religion of peace!"
Please tell me the last time Christian groups in America locked dozens of catholics/mormons/other-slightly-different-denomination believers in a cage and lit them on fire with gasoline.
(Score: 2) by Pav on Friday January 06 2017, @12:38AM
Tribalism ie. "we're good, they're evil" is incorrect... it's a human failing to tell ourselves these lies when we get too afraid. In reality people are people - I've known Iranians, Somalis, Pakistanis, Sudanese etc... in general they're probably more aware of the best and worst of human nature, just because they've lived through war. In general they're just as decent as the next person, with notable exceptions (as with any other group).
Tribalism is used against the middle east, and it's used against YOU. Ever wondered why the middle east is filled with minority ethnic groups in control of the majority? This is by design - the borders were drawn that way. It exploits tribalist impusles - the violently expressed fears of a paranoid minority, these fears becoming more justified as the majority become dangerously angry. Outside powers could never control these countries otherwise - ruling minorities need the support of outside forces, and must do their bidding. This is why the USA loves dictatorships so much (unless the dictators don't do their bidding).
Weddings drone-bombed in the middle east, and terrorist attacks in the west serve the same purpose - each violent faction empowers the other, and we tighten nooses around our own necks. The secular middle class is disempowered and impoverished everywhere at the expense of those that have arranged this conflict.