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posted by cmn32480 on Friday January 06 2017, @11:12AM   Printer-friendly
from the lotsa-red-ink dept.

Global debt levels rose to more than 325 percent of the world's gross domestic product last year as government debt rose sharply, a report from the Institute for International Finance showed on Wednesday.

The IIF's report found that global debt had risen more than $11 trillion in the first nine months of 2016 to more than $217 trillion. The report also found that general government debt accounted for nearly half of the total increase.

Emerging market debt rose substantially, as government bond and syndicated loan issuance in 2016 grew to almost three times its 2015 level.

Source: Reuters


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by deimtee on Friday January 06 2017, @11:47AM

    by deimtee (3272) on Friday January 06 2017, @11:47AM (#450176) Journal

    What gets me is none of these "oooh scary massive debt" stories say who the money is owed to.
    If i am in debt for $1000, I owe that to someone. Who the hell does the world owe 217 trillion dollars to? Aliens from Rigel IV?

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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by VLM on Friday January 06 2017, @11:54AM

    by VLM (445) on Friday January 06 2017, @11:54AM (#450178)

    The problem is the various skim on debts. A couple percent in interest, fees, commissions, pretty soon you're talking about some serious wasted human and financial effort.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @02:58PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @02:58PM (#450225)

      You are missing the point. $217 trillion is an average of $31,000 per person on this planet. Who the fuck is that money owed to?
      If it is the same 65 people who own half the worlds wealth, why don't we load them on the B Ark, fire it into the Sun, and declare all debts paid?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @07:28PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @07:28PM (#450361)

        You are missing the point. $217 trillion is an average of $31,000 per person on this planet. Who the fuck is that money owed to?

        Each other!

        You go to work, you get paid cash. Let's assume that is "no debt cash", and you put it in bank. The bank then lends a fraction of that, like 90% to some company, let's make that your company you work for. That company then pays you money, so you can lend it back via the bank. In that way, Your deposit can create 5x as much debt as cash. OK, maybe not that simple, but money that you have as an ASSET is a LIABILITY for the bank. Bank's ASSETS are LOANS. So, snake eating it's own tail? Yes, if it wasn't for central banks that can add or shrink the money supply based on need for money supply to actually exist.

        So, $31k per person is money we have, Except it is not exactly per person.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth [wikipedia.org]

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Justin Case on Friday January 06 2017, @12:08PM

    by Justin Case (4239) on Friday January 06 2017, @12:08PM (#450182) Journal

    Perhaps some of the debt is owed to you.

    For example, if you live in the USA, when you get really old you may be able to collect Social Security of $100,000 plus or minus during your retirement years.

    Or are they not counting future empty promises in the above "debt" -- in which case things are even worse?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @01:01PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @01:01PM (#450192)

      Future Social Security obligations are not counted in the debt, no. This is why the government is a whole lot more bankrupt than they are letting on. Any corporation that used the accounting rules that the US Government uses would be forced into bankruptcy immediately. AFAIK, most or all world governments use similar accounting fictions.

      However, they may still owe some of the money to, as you put it, you. Treasury notes and bonds are considered one of the safest investments, at least, you know, until the Social Security bill comes due and the whole thing falls apart. And they are widely held by individual investors, probably even more widely held than mutual funds or individual stocks, as they're considered suitable "widows and orphans" investments.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @06:09PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @06:09PM (#450323)

        Future Social Security obligations are not counted in the debt, no. This is why the government is a whole lot more bankrupt than they are letting on.

        Dear lizard, you do know that we, humans, tend to die a few (dozen) years into retirement, don't you?

        Because it sounds as if you think that currently retired people will keep getting money forever and ever after and that it will keep growing exponentially with upcoming retirements.

        Granted the soon-to-be "papy boom" may (not necessarily though) create a bump but, worse case scenario, this will be for a few decades. They will all die eventually.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @06:39PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @06:39PM (#450345)

          Of course, but new people age into the system faster than old people die out of it,and the difference is growing. Not only are birthrates falling, but people live longer, spending more time taking money out of the system, and starting work later (due to longer education), spending less time paying into the system. Since what you get out is proportional to what you put in, even if the education increases income (which is also not working quite as well as it used to), it doesn't actually make the system more solvent.

          Entitlement spending (including not just Social Security but also things like Medicare) is now the majority of federal spending. If not fixed, and fixed soon, within my lifetime it will be most of the GDP. People worry about global warming, but we won't have time to die from that, financial collapse is a much more imminent threat (and I mean real collapse, it will make that business about the housing market look like leaving your wallet in your other pants)

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 07 2017, @02:03AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 07 2017, @02:03AM (#450549) Journal

          Because it sounds as if you think that currently retired people will keep getting money forever and ever after and that it will keep growing exponentially with upcoming retirements.

          They'll keep getting money till they die. That's long enough to cause massive problems at the current rate of empty promise.

          Granted the soon-to-be "papy boom" may (not necessarily though) create a bump but, worse case scenario, this will be for a few decades. They will all die eventually.

          It's long enough. IMHO, we'll have a different system in place by then.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by caffeine on Friday January 06 2017, @12:25PM

    by caffeine (249) on Friday January 06 2017, @12:25PM (#450186)

    Total debt exceeds total money. The issue is banks create money by lending it as a debt, and don't create the extra money that is needed to cover the interest.

    • (Score: 2) by Bot on Friday January 06 2017, @03:24PM

      by Bot (3902) on Friday January 06 2017, @03:24PM (#450248) Journal

      In fact money is neutral, while debt is control.
      Left and right ideologues like to talk about plutocrats and their desire to become richer, while the real game is about making us poor.

      --
      Account abandoned.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @12:56PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @12:56PM (#450190)

    The Orion Syndicate.

    And if you don't pay up, they send this guy http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/2/2d/OrionMale2154.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20050423112512&path-prefix=en [nocookie.net] to collect.

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @01:07PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 06 2017, @01:07PM (#450197)

    Oddly enough, the answer is "ourselves". Let's pretend there is a planet of only two people. Person 2 has 100% of all the resources, and Person 1 has none. Person 1 says that they will labor for three years for Person 2, in exchange for "one year" worth of consumption (presumably food). Person 2 does not work (they have all the resources). This planet has 300% debt/GDP ratio. 3 years of work is promised, 1 year of work is produced each year.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by tempest on Friday January 06 2017, @03:48PM

    by tempest (3050) on Friday January 06 2017, @03:48PM (#450263)

    Some of this debt is abstracted so it's almost hard to comprehend. For example, US Dollars aren't just printed into existence. The Federal Reserve writes a check (with nothing backing it) to buy government bonds. Those bonds pay interest, so essentially US Dollars are borrowed into existence. So you can imagine how the debt accumulates fairly quickly with "Quantitative Easing" and other government spending. Governments don't have money of their own however, they obtain money through taxation. So government debt obligations are an abstraction for future tax revenues - mostly for our kids and their kids.

    This is a good explanation of how our government debt works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0 [youtube.com]

  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday January 06 2017, @05:59PM

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday January 06 2017, @05:59PM (#450316) Journal

    Who the hell does the world owe 217 trillion dollars to?

    The Wall Street derivatives markets, the biggest mob run casino in the world.

    The numbers are imaginary and irrational.

    --
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