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posted by cmn32480 on Sunday January 08 2017, @08:25PM   Printer-friendly
from the somebody-didn't-think-this-all-the-way-through dept.

At least one UK businessman is attaching a condition to his continued support of the ruling Conservative Party:

A major Tory donor has threatened to stop funding the party if Theresa May plans to remove the UK from the "critical" single market after Brexit. Sir Andrew Cook, who has given more than £1.2m to the party, told BBC Radio 4 that ending single market access was "chronic and dangerous" to the economy. The engineering firm chairman said at least one of his factories was almost "entirely dependent" on access to it.

Sir Andrew backed the Remain campaign in the EU referendum. "There are barriers to entry without the single market, there are tariffs," said Sir Andrew, who chairs William Cook, his family's firm which makes components for the rail, energy and defence industries. "One of my factories has 200 people employed making engineering parts that go to France, Germany and Italy," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

Also at Reuters. Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has offered to take a Scottish independence referendum off the table in exchange for a "soft Brexit" involving access to the single market.

The BBC reports that while the EU's presence in London is likely to shrink, organizations like the European Banking Authority (EBA) might stick around if the UK remains in the single market.

Finally, have you applied for your Irish passport yet?


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 08 2017, @09:38PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 08 2017, @09:38PM (#451197)

    "There is a desire by my competitors in mainland Europe to exclude me from the market."

    This is why there will almost certainly be no relationship between EU and UK after article 50 is triggered. It's hard to see any incentive to keep the UK in the single market. If I were the EU I would drag it out for 2 years while siphoning off as much business to the EU as possible and let the UK fall back to WTO rules, all the while smiling and promising to be BFFs.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday January 08 2017, @10:48PM

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 08 2017, @10:48PM (#451225) Journal

    This is why there will almost certainly be no relationship between EU and UK after article 50 is triggered. It's hard to see any incentive to keep the UK in the single market. If I were the EU I would drag it out for 2 years while siphoning off as much business to the EU as possible and let the UK fall back to WTO rules, all the while smiling and promising to be BFFs.

    Who actually is the EU here? I notice a remarkable thing here. For decades, predecessors to the EU were about inclusion, making a common economic system and trying to get as many parties as possible to join. But when members like Greece or the UK today become somewhat unable or unwilling to go along with this growing integration, they get treated like dirt.

    So what sort of system makes it easy to join, but hard to leave? A trap.

    Europeans should be looking hard at the system that's being created. You don't have to like the current leadership of Greece or the UK to wonder why it is so important that the whole of these countries should be screwed as hard as possible.

    That leads to my question. Who is the EU? What value does it provide to the people who live within its borders? Maybe rather than out-grouping the UK, a bunch more people should be looking for the exit as well.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by HiThere on Sunday January 08 2017, @10:54PM

      by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 08 2017, @10:54PM (#451227) Journal

      You mean like the US? Just *try* to leave...

      What you need to decide **before joining** is whether the bait is worth the entrapment. And this *will* be a gamble.

      --
      Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 08 2017, @11:43PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 08 2017, @11:43PM (#451236) Journal

        You mean like the US?

        It's worth noting that the Confederacy easily succeeded at seceding in 1861. But then they frivolously started a war with the US without first lining up suitable allies. The war might have gone very different, if for example, they had the naval and logistics support of one or more European powers and thus couldn't be blockaded without requiring the US to defeat this European power.

        Since then, there has been no serious attempt to secede from the US.

        • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday January 09 2017, @01:50AM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday January 09 2017, @01:50AM (#451277) Journal

          And yet, the Confederacy seems to have won just now. The Union fucked up; they should have cut those inbred moonshine-swilling sister-fucking toothless morons loose and left you to fend for themselves.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 09 2017, @08:31AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 09 2017, @08:31AM (#451372) Journal

            And yet, the Confederacy seems to have won just now.

            I bet a fair portion of what you term "the Confederacy" now had immigrant ancestors who weren't even in the New World in 1860. And slavery isn't on the table.

            • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday January 09 2017, @05:28PM

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday January 09 2017, @05:28PM (#451523) Journal

              I would say you're correct, too. But tell them that, and they'll start frothing and seething and going "but MUH JERBZ!" Historical literacy is not a strong suit of most Americans, but especially not those south of the Mason Dixon line.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 09 2017, @07:23AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 09 2017, @07:23AM (#451355)

          Check the tax reporting obligations of a person who changes his nationality from USian. You have to report Your earnings to the Creepy Uncle Sam for quite a long while, if memory serves, even despite being no longer a citizen.

          • (Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Monday January 09 2017, @08:35AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 09 2017, @08:35AM (#451375) Journal

            You have to report Your earnings to the Creepy Uncle Sam for quite a long while, if memory serves, even despite being no longer a citizen.

            Do other countries recognize this law?

    • (Score: 2) by frojack on Monday January 09 2017, @12:26AM

      by frojack (1554) on Monday January 09 2017, @12:26AM (#451253) Journal

      Once it progressed beyond the common market concept it sort of went off the rails in an orgy of governmental overreach.

      Not content to form a framework for common government, and let time handle the details, the EU charter tried to micromanage every aspect of life.

      That some countries to this day participate mostly in the single market aspect of the EU (basically the EFTA [wikipedia.org] members) suggests that as a still valid approach post Brexit.

      Its pretty clear that the first significant challenge faced as a Union (massive illegal immigration) brought the the boarder fences out of storage, temporary rule changes that somehow became permanent, and one county's decision being imposed upon all members.

      Nobody got a vote on that whole debacle. No member would even consider allowing such a vote. It was a foregone conclusion it would fail. And that pattern has been visible for decades. Just impose it because no one would vote for it.

      So maybe the EFTA states had it right all along.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 09 2017, @01:48AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 09 2017, @01:48AM (#451276)

      > So what sort of system makes it easy to join, but hard to leave? A trap.

      Or... a system where everybody is interdependent and leaving doesn't' just affect the leaver it affects everyone else so they are kinda fucking pissed you'd do that to them and no longer willing to cut you the same slack they would for someone who hadn't just kicked them in the balls.

      Nah, it couldn't be that... Selfishness is OK for me, but for thee.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 09 2017, @08:25AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 09 2017, @08:25AM (#451370) Journal

        Or... a system where everybody is interdependent and leaving doesn't' just affect the leaver it affects everyone else so they are kinda fucking pissed you'd do that to them and no longer willing to cut you the same slack they would for someone who hadn't just kicked them in the balls.

        Nah, I don't think it's that. UK can still be part of the trade bloc without harming that interdependence.

    • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday January 09 2017, @02:21AM

      by aristarchus (2645) on Monday January 09 2017, @02:21AM (#451285) Journal

      So what sort of system makes it easy to join, but hard to leave?

      Book of the Month Club, or Columbia Records? And, the opt-out only marketing model is baaaack!
      https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-adore-me/ [bloomberg.com]

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by lx on Monday January 09 2017, @05:14AM

      by lx (1915) on Monday January 09 2017, @05:14AM (#451332)

      It's easy to leave the EU.
      The problem is that the May government wants to leave and retain all the advantages of EU membership.
      Of course the rest of Europe isn't going along with that plan.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 09 2017, @08:33AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 09 2017, @08:33AM (#451373) Journal

        The problem is that the May government wants to leave and retain all the advantages of EU membership.

        Maybe that is so, but I get the impression that there's some EU unionists who want to cut the UK completely off for spite.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by mojo chan on Monday January 09 2017, @01:40PM

          by mojo chan (266) on Monday January 09 2017, @01:40PM (#451438)

          It's quite simple. The European Economic Area, the common market, is based on the principal of the free movement of goods, capital and labour. You can't have two of the three, it's all or nothing. No other country gets to pick and choose.

          The only alternative to negotiate a deal. Lots of countries have done that, but it takes a long time. Certainly more than 18 months that the UK realistically has to negotiate its exit from the EU. So there are only two realistic options - we stay in the common market and accept all the rules and freedom of movement, or we come out and lose all the benefits.

          Other European countries are naturally going to take advantage of our stupidity. France and Germany and Ireland can build up their financial services as companies leave London. Spain can get joint sovereignty over Gibraltar or cripple its economy. On top of that, Scotland will leave the UK if we leave the EEA. There will be some kind of weird border with EU Ireland and Scotland. And we made some kind of promise to Nissan that now has to be factored in too.

          Okay, I lied, it's not simple at all. The point is that the UK is in a very weak position. We could lose so much, and have very few cards in our hand.

          --
          const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
          • (Score: 2) by tonyPick on Monday January 09 2017, @02:38PM

            by tonyPick (1237) on Monday January 09 2017, @02:38PM (#451459) Homepage Journal

            Minor point - the EU technically refers to the four freedoms (goods, people, services and capital).

            Otherwise everything you've said is correct - the UK's fundamental problem now is that the leave campaign means it's politically unacceptable for the government to accept free movement of people but it's also economic suicide for the UK to lose the other three, and there's simply no way around that or enough time to get an alternative deal that isn't economically punishing in the two year time frame.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 09 2017, @10:34AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 09 2017, @10:34AM (#451402)

        > Of course the rest of Europe isn't going along with that plan.

        That would be incredibly stupid and childish. The single market is benefiting them too.

        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 09 2017, @01:39PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 09 2017, @01:39PM (#451436)

          > That would be incredibly stupid and childish. The single market is benefiting them too.

          If you really think like that you are out of whack compared to the vast, vast majority of humans and even apes (first best link from Google: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140918141151.htm). [sciencedaily.com]
          Large-scale cooperation is impossible without fairness, giving someone a better deal (especially if unfairly so where they benefit vastly more than anyone else) for leaving WILL rip the community apart and in the end almost certainly mean the end of even the single market.
          I am pretty sure no sane human would first insult his boss, then ask for a pay rise and lower work hours and expect to get all that even when the business still would get more benefit out of it than they are paying salary! (even if it may happen in rare cases when someone was EXTREMELY underpaid compared to what they are worth to the company)

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 09 2017, @01:24PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 09 2017, @01:24PM (#451433)

      > trying to get as many parties as possible to join.

      That was, in large part, the UK that wanted it. Others like France were not so enthusiastic about it ever.

      > But when members like Greece or the UK today become somewhat unable or unwilling to go along with this growing integration, they get treated like dirt.

      Greece doesn't want to leave AT ALL, so I don't get that point at all.
      The UK doesn't get treated like dirt, they just get told that the rules (in particular the rules the UK wanted) are for everyone!
      If they get pissed on, that is mostly for things they absolutely are to blame for like
      - Lobbying ultra hard to get more countries into the EU, then blaming the EU for all the immigrants from those countries (and many more instances like this, with all too many UK citizens happy to play along and blame the EU when it was THEIR politicians who were responsible and they should simply stop voting for politicians that betray them).
      - Putting rules like the "no negotiations before exit process starts, and max 2 years for negotiations" into the contracts and the complaining about them when they're affected by them
      - Holding a referendum that nobody actually could know what any of the options ACTUALLY meant, in order to solve internal party squabbles, and promising people the sky for voting their way (while course shortly before having heaped shit on Scottish politicians for doing exactly the same thing)

      > Who is the EU?

      Primarily, the consensus will of (the governments of) its member states. If you live in the EU and something bad comes from the EU, it is almost certainly because YOUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT said OK to it! Thus I cannot see how logically anyone could believe that leaving the EU would make anything better! (well, there are some arguments around diversity and competition, but most people - especially those opposed to the EU - seem to feel that e.g. China is providing enough competition and hardly are out for MORE of it, but for anyone having a problem with the DECISIONS "coming" from the EU need to realize that they do come from their own government and leaving the EU would be most likely to make things WORSE - if it doesn't look like it it's because you government is lying to you and you believe them for some crazy reason).