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posted by Fnord666 on Saturday January 14 2017, @03:33PM   Printer-friendly
from the your-name-is-on-a-list dept.

It's no pardon, but it will do:

President Obama has put Chelsea Manning, the former Army intelligence analyst serving a 35-year sentence for leaking classified material, on his short list for a possible commutation, a Justice Department source told NBC News. A decision could come [...] for Manning, who has tried to commit suicide twice this year and went on a hunger strike in a bid for gender reassignment surgery.

"I have more hope right now than I have the entire time since she was sentenced," Manning's aunt, Deborah Manning, told NBC News.

[...] Manning's supporters believe the harshness of the sentence can be traced to another leaker; the scandal around former NSA contractor Edward Snowden was erupting around the same time. "I really believe the judge felt she needed to send some sort of message," the aunt said. "I think in a way she was a scapegoat for Edward Snowden." Snowden, who has asked Obama for clemency, tweeted his support of Manning shortly after NBC News' report about the commutation decision aired on TODAY on Wednesday morning.

Four former and current Army intelligence officers told NBC News the documents leaked by Manning pale in significance to highly classified top secret material released by Snowden. The officers, who would not allow their names to be used, said the Manning sentence seems excessive.

Also at The Hill.


Time magazine adds:

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange will agree to be extradited to the U.S. if President Obama grants whistle-blower Chelsea Manning clemency before his term ends on Jan. 20, the organization has said.

In a tweet posted on the group's official account Thursday, WikiLeaks said Assange would not oppose extradition to the U.S. "despite [the] clear unconstitutionality" of any potential criminal complaints that the Justice Department may have against the whistle-blower website, if U.S. Army private Manning is released.


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  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:03PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:03PM (#453798)

    Assange is being a total dick. He's using Manning's plight for his own PR purposes.

    Reminding the public about wikileaks' connection to Manning will knee-cap support for this pardon among democrats. Whatever the reality is regarding wikileaks' effect on the election, a lot of a democrats who would ordinarily be highly supportive of pardoning Manning loathe wikileaks right now. Emphasizing the connection between Manning and wikileaks will only weaken their support for Manning. Its not like the new-found love of some republicans for wikileaks is going to transfer to Manning either, they hate her because she's a 'traitor' and trans - basically a republican twofer of pure evil, just ask derpaway1965,

    So, once again Assange is willing to harm others who are at least nominally allies for his own purposes. Maybe he's always been an asshole, or maybe all those years stuck in that embassy have just brought out the worst in him. But this stunt and his use of a reward to imply that a staffer's murder was connected to the DNC email leaks are the kind of thing that corrode his cred as being an honest broker and make him look a lot more like just another self-serving douche.

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  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:07PM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:07PM (#453801) Journal

    If Assange gets any use out of it, that's more than the Army got. Maybe Assange understands Manning better than you?

    • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:12PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:12PM (#453803)

      right on cue
      That'll do pig, that'll do.

      • (Score: 0, Redundant) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:16PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:16PM (#453812) Journal

        So you don't want to hear what I REALLY think about Manning?

        • (Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Saturday January 14 2017, @07:01PM

          by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Saturday January 14 2017, @07:01PM (#453869) Journal

          I think we're aware that you stand fully with your TERFeminist sisters on this issue. Castrate all men! Unless they want to be castrated!

          He's no better than those gay butt lovers Julius and Ethan Rosenburg!

          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday January 15 2017, @12:11AM

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday January 15 2017, @12:11AM (#453964) Journal

            Jesus, Kurenai, I was about to say "if you think Runaway's a TERF you're nuts..." but then I remember that cartoon someone drew of two horrible old women pitching transphobic slurs back and forth, then one of them asks the other if she wants to go to the local TERF meetup and she says "Wait, you're a FEMINIST? I thought you were an evangelical like me!"

            The horseshoe effect produces strange, strange bedfellows. I'd find this all more amusing from across the Canadian border...

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @10:38PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @10:38PM (#453939)

      The correct pronoun for a gender-dyslexic person is not "it", but rather the person's preferred gender followed by "it". So in the case of Beverley Manning, use "sheeit".

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:08PM

    by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:08PM (#453802) Homepage

    " Reminding the public about wikileaks' connection to Manning will knee-cap support for this pardon among democrats. "

    And reminding the public that Grand Emperpor For Life Baraq Hussein Soetoro and his "tolerant Democrats" basically gave a transgendered leaker a life sentence of torture will knee-cap public support of Democrats.

    Not saying that Assange isn't being a worm, though -- if Assange knows that Emperor Soetoro will not pardon Manning, then his offer to trade himself in is all fluff, although again it makes the Democrats look like assholes -- especially if Trump ends up making the trade himself. Though that probably won't happen, as Trump is outwardly anti-leaker.

    • (Score: 4, Touché) by Nerdfest on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:14PM

      by Nerdfest (80) on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:14PM (#453805)

      Apparently the Russians have video that contradicts your statement about Trump.

      • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:18PM

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:18PM (#453814) Homepage

        I once saw a movie, called Metal Gear Solid 2, where everything in the world was fake news.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @08:46PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @08:46PM (#453911)

          It would take a lot of special effects to make anything as ridiculous as Trump. [google.com]

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:18PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:18PM (#453816)

        You realize that whole story was created by 4chan, right? And BuzzFeed picked it up, and CNN ran with it. The very definition of fake news.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:28PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:28PM (#453822)

          And all the proof of 4chan hoaxing is a conveniently 'deleted' post.
          I'll believe it when I see it.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Nerdfest on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:56PM

          by Nerdfest (80) on Saturday January 14 2017, @04:56PM (#453829)

          I haven't seen any proof either way by anyone, hence the "apparently". But, it's also hilarious and surprisingly believable, so I will absolutely use it as material for jokes.

          • (Score: 2) by r1348 on Saturday January 14 2017, @05:02PM

            by r1348 (5988) on Saturday January 14 2017, @05:02PM (#453835)

            Then we should remember where the burden of proof lays.

            • (Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Saturday January 14 2017, @05:10PM

              by Nerdfest (80) on Saturday January 14 2017, @05:10PM (#453840)

              Oh absolutely, but I'll make all the jokes about it I want, if only because he's a bigoted, narcissistic, misogynist, of below average intelligence and it gets under his skin. Also because it was too good to pass up.

          • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @05:23PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @05:23PM (#453843)

            The pee stuff makes for an endless stream of late-night show jokes and puns. My favorite is PEEOTUS...

            But the really damning claims aren't about the hookers, its all the other stuff about contacts and coordination between his campaign and russia.
            No 4chan troll has hoaxed that.

            There is plenty of hard, factual reasons to believe Trump has been compromised. Over the last decade he's been complicit in laundering money of oligarchs and other crime lords from former soviet states. Putin's got a complicated relationship with the oligarchs. When he came to power he made a deal with them - you stay out of politics and I won't re-nationalize all the stuff you stole from the people. But tension between powers is inevitable and occasionally an oligarch decides to test [wikipedia.org] Putin. [wikipedia.org] So Putin is always looking for leverage on the oligarchs in case he has to put one down. Trump's involvement with them and their money made him a potential asset. So it has long been in Putin's interest to recruit Trump - and by 'recruit' I mean blackmail. The fact that years later Trump would become a serious candidate for President is just serendipity from Putin's point of view.

            Here's a summary of much of the reporting on Trump's financial ties to crime in former soviet union satellites. [dailykos.com] Don't let the fact that the summary is published on the DailyKOS dissuade you, all the source articles it references are from the much more sober Financial Times. I think the FT is paywalled, but I get through all the links without a problem - try incognito mode if you can't. There is also this comprehensive examination of Trump's dubious foreign connections [the-american-interest.com] from The American Interest, a deeply conservative foreign-policy mag.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @09:01PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @09:01PM (#453915)

            Yeah.
            I have no doubt that there are recordings of everything Trump ever did in Russia, made by their spooks.

            I don't consume Howard Stern's show but have heard several people in media say how Trump repeatedly bragged on that show about his sexual exploits.

            There's the Billy Bush recordings as well.

            As such, I have no doubt about his proclivities.

            haven't seen any proof

            While that's true, these things do fit patterns of behavior of those entities.

            -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @10:56PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @10:56PM (#453944)

              And so? If Trump is proud of his sexual prowess, how can it be used to blackmail him? Do you think Melinka's going to lock him out of the bedroom if a tape of him with some ladies of negotiable virtue surfaces? Not if she wants to keep the credit cards!

              • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday January 15 2017, @12:47PM

                by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 15 2017, @12:47PM (#454056) Journal

                If you think that is how the blackmail would be used, then you are being very naive.

                It could be used to counter his business ventures, his money, his popularity, his ability to negotiate deals, his credibility, to the extent that he can achieve nothing, indeed he will be nothing, unless the Russians support it. Now THAT would hurt not only Trump personally but the US in general. Do you still not think that it isn't a Russian desire to have that sort of control over another super-power?

                Whether his wife remains true to him probably wouldn't bother him too much - there must be millions of women who would marry him providing he remains wealthy and influential. But take that away from him, and he becomes far less attractive.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by ledow on Saturday January 14 2017, @05:02PM

    by ledow (5567) on Saturday January 14 2017, @05:02PM (#453834) Homepage

    Assange is deliberately offering a trade which cannot, in law, happen.

    So when it's refused, he gets to look like the "good guy" against the evil empire.

    The fact is, he's not even in a position to offer that trade, criminals do not get to negotiate their terms of arrest, and even if he was it cannot be accepted by the US, allowed by the UK/EU, or be determined by him.

    It's like saying if Assange hands himself in in his place, then some other person in jail gets to go free. That's not how ANYTHING works in that realm, whether it's shoplifting, mass murder, or breach of secret information. Prisoner trades happen, but only with extreme amounts of guarantees (that they won't go free in the country of exchange either) and they are negotiated by COUNTRIES, not by the criminals themselves or random individuals.

    If indeed it's actually come from him, Assange has opened his mouth again, spouted some more PR, which cannot be acted on and shows off his superiority complex yet again. He's not in a position to make any deals, demands, or even requests, until he comes out, is arrested, probably does some jail time for skipping UK bail, be extradited, questioned, maybe even arrested again (arrest != charge), and then gets handed over to someone who DOESN'T CARE and will probably just push him out into the world. Which should, to any intelligent observer, show what a nonsense his whole approach has been. But which he would undoubtedly try to spin as some kind of step-down by the governments in question.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @05:46PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @05:46PM (#453848)

      Fuck you and your authoritarian wank-fest of a post.

      You are a stinking cunt of a person.

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by Whoever on Saturday January 14 2017, @07:11PM

      by Whoever (4524) on Saturday January 14 2017, @07:11PM (#453872) Journal

      criminals do not get to negotiate their terms of arrest,

      LOL. Wealthy accused people negotiate their arrest all the time.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @08:35PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @08:35PM (#453907)

      Criminals? For one thing even if he did the things they're accusing Assange of, none of that's illegal. And for another, the whole idea of allowing women to decide after the fact that they've been raped is a huge problem for fans of justice.

      • (Score: 2) by ledow on Saturday January 14 2017, @08:54PM

        by ledow (5567) on Saturday January 14 2017, @08:54PM (#453913) Homepage

        And I'm not referring to either.

        I'm in the UK and only care about the UK law.

        Skipping bail is a criminal offence. Literally contempt of court.

  • (Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday January 14 2017, @06:24PM

    by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday January 14 2017, @06:24PM (#453859) Journal

    If a commutation for Manning is on the table ("the short list"), President Obama should accept the offer and see what happens. Then we'll really get to see how much of a dick Julian Assange is.

    Although another problem here is that Assange hasn't been charged in the U.S. and there are no plans to, AFAIK. Bluster as the IC and pundits might, Wikileaks has conducted itself like a "news organization".

    --
    [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @07:29PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @07:29PM (#453877)

      That's what a lot of the complete dumbfucks around here don't understand, you know, the ones who breathlessly say stuff like "oooh, the first step out of the embassy he'll be kidnapped and sent off to Gitmo, never to be heard from again." The US doesn't want him AT ALL for exactly the reason you said, they can't get him for publishing the material. Unless there is evidence that he actively participated or provided material assistance, there's nothing to get him on.

      His wet dream is to be picked up by the US and put on trial. It would be an ego-fueled circus and he'd get to come out looking like a hero. I guarantee you that whatever minimum time elapses when he come out of the embassy, I bet you he tries to come to the US just hoping something will happen. His biggest fear is once he leaves the embassy, nobody pays him much attention. If the Swedes nor the Brits do anything to him, that'll be quite a blow to his ego. At least he'll have the Russians feeding him material until even they deem him too much of a minor player to pay attention to.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Saturday January 14 2017, @07:58PM

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday January 14 2017, @07:58PM (#453887) Journal

        Assange seems pretty adept at getting the attention he wants... Trump and him are the Tweet Lords. I don't think he'll have any trouble doing additional attention whoring even if the U.S. chooses to ignore him. Note: With all that said, I still support Assange. But let's look at just a few ploys:

        1. The escape to the embassy. It looks like the rape charges are going to evaporate, perhaps very soon. One could guess that would have happened years ago without the embassy maneuver. But it was a genuinely exciting masterstroke that got him years of press. Don't forget #EmbassyCat.

        2. The reward offer for finding the murderer(s) of a DNC staffer. This was another masterstroke (what is being stroked 'ere?). DCPD isn't so great at finding random killers, so the probability of having to pay out is low. This also tests the limits of Wikileaks' supposed "we don't reveal our sources policy". Obviously, if the leakers or associated figures choose to reveal themselves, like Craig Murray or Edward Snowden (not a Wikileaks man, just using as an example), then Wikileaks/Assange should feel free to talk about them. And in this case, Assange wasn't actually claiming that a slain DNC staffer was a source. It was just a FUD tactic that could have been taken right out of the NSA/GCHQ playbook. Assange fashions himself as a spymaster and Wikileaks as the public's intelligence agency, and mind games come with the package. More to the point, this was another great way to get free press, and it tied him to the election scandals of that time.

        3. This story. I had to read the summary twice before I remembered that, oh wait, Assange's deal is very weird because the U.S. isn't asking for his extradition. He is offering to become a victim of the American Empire that he has used for propaganda purposes for years. It would make a lot more sense for Edward Snowden to make this offer to Obama.

        I just don't think he'll ever have trouble getting the attention he wants.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @08:29PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 14 2017, @08:29PM (#453900)

          > and mind games come with the package.

          And are everything he claims to oppose in the traditional media.

          If that's really his rationale, then he deserves no trust at all.
          Its just too easy to go from "mind games" are legitimate tactics for wikileaks to selective leaking to sell a false narrative for the "greater good."

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 15 2017, @04:06AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 15 2017, @04:06AM (#453998)

        His wet dream is to be picked up by the US and put on trial.

        ???? Hence the reason he is hiding in the Ecuadorian embassy? Am I missing something here?

        • (Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday January 15 2017, @10:50AM

          by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Sunday January 15 2017, @10:50AM (#454048) Journal

          The AC believes this is part of Assange's game. Commit the crime of bail breach with a daring escape to the embassy, avoid Swedish rape proceedings, and blame it all on the U.S. gubberment even though it's not clear they are involved. Assange says it's all for avoiding Sweden extraditing him to the U.S., when it is actually for attention and/or donations. But if the U.S. really did decide to pick Assange up, he would still get the attention he wants.

          In summary, he is pretending to avoid extradition to the U.S. but would actually love to be extradited to the U.S. And the U.S. doesn't care about him.

          --
          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 15 2017, @04:52PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 15 2017, @04:52PM (#454115)

            Bravado is easy when you think there is little actual downside.
            But its easy to miscalculate - just ask Saddam Hussein how well his bluffing worked out.

            Assange would have to be delusional to think the publicity of being extradited would outweigh the personal consequences. If he was tried in the US, the amount of institutional power that would be applied against him would be overwhelming. He would get publicity, but he would be crushed in the court of public opinion by the inevitable semi-orchestrated media onslaught. And his ability to come out of the actual trial without serious penalties is pretty dubious. He might win because court is always a gamble, but the odds would be stacked against him. The DoJ would easily spend $10M+ of tax dollars on a high profile trial like that.